Trump’s tax avoidance and financial disasters

[BriarFox]

LONG-CONCEALED RECORDS SHOW TRUMP’S CHRONIC LOSSES AND YEARS OF TAX AVOIDANCE
The Times obtained Donald Trump’s tax information extending over more than two decades, revealing struggling properties, vast write-offs, an audit battle and hundreds of millions in debt coming due.


By Russ Buettner, Susanne Craig and Mike McIntire
Sept. 27, 2020

Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.

He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.

As the president wages a re-election campaign that polls say he is in danger of losing, his finances are under stress, beset by losses and hundreds of millions of dollars in debt coming due that he has personally guaranteed. Also hanging over him is a decade-long audit battle with the Internal Revenue Service over the legitimacy of a $72.9 million tax refund that he claimed, and received, after declaring huge losses. An adverse ruling could cost him more than $100 million.


The tax returns that Mr. Trump has long fought to keep private tell a story fundamentally different from the one he has sold to the American public. His reports to the I.R.S. portray a businessman who takes in hundreds of millions of dollars a year yet racks up chronic losses that he aggressively employs to avoid paying taxes. Now, with his financial challenges mounting, the records show that he depends more and more on making money from businesses that put him in potential and often direct conflict of interest with his job as president.

The New York Times has obtained tax-return data extending over more than two decades for Mr. Trump and the hundreds of companies that make up his business organization, including detailed information from his first two years in office. It does not include his personal returns for 2018 or 2019. This article offers an overview of The Times’s findings; additional articles will be published in the coming weeks.

...


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html

[Blazar]

Haha, tip of the iceberg. More to come people!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Show me the part where it's illegal?

[Taernath]

It was always a grift.

[Blazar]

Show me the part where it's illegal?

AHAHAHA. It's okay that he's a shit bag of a person and screws the country on taxes... it's not illegal, it's sooo American!

Again, tip of the iceberg, I promise there's more to come, and his crooked and illegal shenanigans will come to light. They always do. He's fucked over enough people that I am very confident in this. Like I said, I'm playing the long game. It won't be tomorrow, but in 10 to 20 years, we'll see Trump in jail. I have no doubts.

[Keller]

Trump will need to lay off the Big Macs if he wants to live 10-20 years longer. Not much of a runway for life at 300+ lbs.

[Tgo01]

Are these the sort of lame attacks we can expect until Election Day?

SAD!

Biden can hardly get a sentence out without drooling all over himself but Trump supposedly does what every other American does when it comes to their taxes.

[beldannon5]

Of course Tgo01 it's TDS

[Taernath]

AHAHAHA. It's okay that he's a shit bag of a person and screws the country on taxes... it's not illegal, it's sooo American!

Again, tip of the iceberg, I promise there's more to come, and his crooked and illegal shenanigans will come to light. They always do. He's fucked over enough people that I am very confident in this. Like I said, I'm playing the long game. It won't be tomorrow, but in 10 to 20 years, we'll see Trump in jail. I have no doubts.

Really doubtful he'll ever go to jail. People like him never do, especially people like him who are former Presidents. His lawyers will drag proceedings out for years, giving him ample time to stroke out in the comfort of his own home.

[Fortybox]

The New York Times said it will not make Trump's tax-return data public so as not to jeopardize its sources "who have taken enormous personal risks to help inform the public."

All you need to know. More anonymous sources. This is what journalist integrity has devolved into.

[Tgo01]

All you need to know. More anonymous sources. This is what journalist integrity has devolved into.

Oh shit, I totally missed this part.

So yet more anonymous source bullshit.

“Help inform the public.” Otherwise known as someone in the IRS committing a huge felony if any of this is even remotely true, and the Democrats don’t care as per usual. Anything to get Orange man.

[Orthin]

Really doubtful he'll ever go to jail. People like him never do, especially people like him who are former Presidents. His lawyers will drag proceedings out for years, giving him ample time to stroke out in the comfort of his own home.

That wouldn't even need to happen. He could be completely guilty of all charges but I can easily see being pardoned by the next sitting president OR if not that president the first republican one.

Also weird circumstance but could he technically pre-pardon himself?

[Orthin]

All you need to know. More anonymous sources. This is what journalist integrity has devolved into.

So how I read that to me is that it does not mean the Sources are anonymous, just that the NY Times is protecting their Sources and material. I believe ultimately they could be compelled to reveal the Sources if it became a legal matter.

Protecting a Source(s) isn't something new. It would make me take the information in with a grain of salt but I also would not immediately dismiss it either.

To me a lot would depend on how NY Times has been historically with protected source information and that information being reported. If they have been repeatedly overturned as reporting fallacy I would highly question anything they report as being "protected" but if their track record is consistent with solid reporting from these sources I would lend it some credence and wait for continued reporting or corroboration from other outlets to cement their main report. Again all still with a grain of salt.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

So how I read that to me is that it does not mean the Sources are anonymous, just that the NY Times is protecting their Sources and material. I believe ultimately they could be compelled to reveal the Sources if it became a legal matter.

Protecting a Source(s) isn't something new. It would make me take the information in with a grain of salt but I also would not immediately dismiss it either.

To me a lot would depend on how NY Times has been historically with protected source information and that information being reported. If they have been repeatedly overturned as reporting fallacy I would highly question anything they report as being "protected" but if their track record is consistent with solid reporting from these sources I would lend it some credence and wait for continued reporting or corroboration from other outlets to cement their main report. Again all still with a grain of salt.

It's a puff piece hit job, consistent with the last 4 years of "reporting" on Trump.

[Taernath]

That wouldn't even need to happen. He could be completely guilty of all charges but I can easily see being pardoned by the next sitting president OR if not that president the first republican one.

Also weird circumstance but could he technically pre-pardon himself?

Very doubtful a pre-pardon would stand, and I doubt he would try even though he's talked about it. It would require him to essentially admit to criminal behavior, and he's never accepted responsibility for his actions, so no.

Biden already pledged not to pardon Trump, and I think by and large no Democrat would do it.

A Republican might, but it mostly depends on how malignant the Trump cult is at that point. If they all scuttle off in the darkness when Trump is out of the picture, Republicans would make noises about the rule of law and allowing the courts to make their own judgements or something and not do it.

[Orthin]

It's a puff piece hit job, consistent with the last 4 years of "reporting" on Trump.

If other liberal leaning news entities don't pile on and if the conservative leaning news entities don't circle the wagon that would probably tell me all I need to know in terms of its legitimacy.

As to the NY Times targeting Trump, if they have been (honestly I don't keep up with news, this is a genuine inquiry) on his butt during his entire presidency the big thing would was their reporting substantiated on a consistent basis, or has it been repeatedly debunked. That they target him isn't terribly important to me personally, IF the information they report is substantiated. But tying back to my original piece, I don't follow the news much, I find this intriguing and don't skew as a Trump supporter, but if he has been gaming the tax system is probably just one of many gaming the system that needs reform. Can't fault him if he is exploiting a broken system if its legal, with everyone else that is doing it it would be hypocritical.

[Tgo01]

IF the information they report is substantiated.

How can it ever be substantiated if it's just a bunch of anonymous source BS?

[Parkbandit]

So how I read that to me is that it does not mean the Sources are anonymous, just that the NY Times is protecting their Sources and material. I believe ultimately they could be compelled to reveal the Sources if it became a legal matter.

Protecting a Source(s) isn't something new. It would make me take the information in with a grain of salt but I also would not immediately dismiss it either.

To me a lot would depend on how NY Times has been historically with protected source information and that information being reported. If they have been repeatedly overturned as reporting fallacy I would highly question anything they report as being "protected" but if their track record is consistent with solid reporting from these sources I would lend it some credence and wait for continued reporting or corroboration from other outlets to cement their main report. Again all still with a grain of salt.

NY Times has historically created "news" by using anonymous sources.

[Orthin]

How can it ever be substantiated if it's just a bunch of anonymous source BS?

if its corroborated by other outlets or future articles with unprotected Sources. Anything protected I would always take with a grain of salt, but I would also not completely discount.

[Orthin]

NY Times has historically created "news" by using anonymous sources.

well with that being the case then yes it would be very reasonable to question the material and demand the protected source and material be revealed.

[Furryrat]

There goes any credibility the Times had left. No wonder they need subscription fees, it's now purely an entertainment product.

[Parkbandit]

There goes any credibility the Times had left. No wonder they need subscription fees, it's now purely an entertainment product.

The NY Times has always been an echo chamber for liberals.

[Tgo01]

if its corroborated by other outlets or future articles with unprotected Sources. Anything protected I would always take with a grain of salt, but I would also not completely discount.

The last major "bombshell" was Trump calling dead soldiers "losers." The story was from anonymous sources and then another anonymous source "confirmed" the original anonymous source. I wouldn't hold my breath on anyone coming forward and putting their name on this.

[Fortybox]

So how I read that to me is that it does not mean the Sources are anonymous, just that the NY Times is protecting their Sources and material. I believe ultimately they could be compelled to reveal the Sources if it became a legal matter.

Protecting a Source(s) isn't something new. It would make me take the information in with a grain of salt but I also would not immediately dismiss it either.

To me a lot would depend on how NY Times has been historically with protected source information and that information being reported. If they have been repeatedly overturned as reporting fallacy I would highly question anything they report as being "protected" but if their track record is consistent with solid reporting from these sources I would lend it some credence and wait for continued reporting or corroboration from other outlets to cement their main report. Again all still with a grain of salt.

There's no way to corroborate it if they aren't releasing it. The media is so corrupt.

[Fortybox]

Fox News is reporting the following:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-new-york-times-avoid-paying-taxes-totally


“The New York Times’ story is riddled with gross inaccuracies. Over the past decade the President has paid tens of millions of dollars in personal taxes to the federal government," Garten said. "While we tried to explain this to the Times, they refused to listen and rejected our repeated request that they show us any of the documentation they purport to be relying on to substantiate their claims."

Glad to see that the NYT can slander someone with no sharing of any so called "proof" that would substantiate their claims. It's a hit piece and morons like time4dumb and soyfox slurp it up.

[Furryrat]

There's no way to corroborate it if they aren't releasing it. The media is so corrupt.

I'm willing to wager enough to cover my market losses from last week, which I will also be using to offset tax owed on this year's return (omg, wow, people make and lose money, omg) that the first words from Nancy Pelosi's mouth tomorrow, when asked about this story, will be, "Well if he disputes it, then he should release his returns to disprove the story."

[beldannon5]

oh it will be that's for sure

[Parkbandit]

It's a hit piece and morons like time4dumb and soyfox slurp it up.

Can you imagine the collective meltdown they will have if Trump wins re-election?

https://i.imgur.com/cW2nCrx.gif

[Keller]

Lock him up!

[Keller]

Trump will need to lay off the Big Macs if he wants to live 10-20 years longer. Not much of a runway for life at 300+ lbs.

With all due respect to the fatass I offended with this post, you need to take your health seriously. Obesity is an epidemic.

[Fortybox]

Can you imagine the collective meltdown they will have if Trump wins re-election?

https://i.imgur.com/cW2nCrx.gif

I sure hope so. It will be fun to watch...again.

[Fortybox]

I'm willing to wager enough to cover my market losses from last week, which I will also be using to offset tax owed on this year's return (omg, wow, people make and lose money, omg) that the first words from Nancy Pelosi's mouth tomorrow, when asked about this story, will be, "Well if he disputes it, then he should release his returns to disprove the story."

Some nitwit was mentioning that on LNet this evening. I'm sure that's the plan. The left's mantra is "guilty until proven innocent."

[Furryrat]

Lock him up!

You mean them, don't you? You know, the ones that violated federal disclosure laws and unlawfully obtained and then published an American citizen's tax information for profit?

[Fortybox]

Lock him up!

https://i.imgflip.com/4dli7f.jpg

[Keller]

Just finished reading the article.

Everything that was written made sense from a professional tax attorneys point of view. As they say, pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered is apt.

Now just curious whether it’s true. Time will tell.

[Tgo01]

Just finished reading the article.

Everything that was written made sense from a professional tax attorneys point of view. As they say, pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered is apt.

Now just curious whether it’s true. Time will tell.

Do you often advise your clients to pay more in taxes than they are legally required to?

[Wrathbringer]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html

No one cares.

[~Rocktar~]

When the Democrats give a shit about Feinstein, Pelosi and Al Sharpton's tax issues, I might care about Trumps. Until then, all you hypocrites should shut the fuck up. Every. Last. One.

[Fortybox]

When the Democrats give a shit about Feinstein, Pelosi and Al Sharpton's tax issues, I might care about Trumps. Until then, all you hypocrites should shut the fuck up. Every. Last. One.

Anonymous sources say Briarfox doesn’t pay taxes on the sales of his overpriced Treasure in the Sharts items.

[Orthin]

When the Democrats give a shit about Feinstein, Pelosi and Al Sharpton's tax issues, I might care about Trumps. Until then, all you hypocrites should shut the fuck up. Every. Last. One.

To me this is ultimately the biggest issue. If Trump did everything within his legal power NOT to have to pay much if anything on his taxes than more power to him. Like you suggest I would wager any of these powerful and financially well off folks are also gaming the system and paying significantly less than they could or should by manipulating tax laws in their favor. People do not like parting with their money for any reason and if they can game the system they will. Until tax laws are closed up better no one who is gaming the system legally (legal being key) should be held accountable, since they are doing nothing wrong.

I would almost guarantee with no evidence to prove it that both sides of the aisle are taking full advantage of the tax laws and paying the absolute minimum they have to. Shit knows I do.

[Fortybox]

To me this is ultimately the biggest issue. If Trump did everything within his legal power NOT to have to pay much if anything on his taxes than more power to him. Like you suggest I would wager any of these powerful and financially well off folks are also gaming the system and paying significantly less than they could or should by manipulating tax laws in their favor. People do not like parting with their money for any reason and if they can game the system they will. Until tax laws are closed up better no one who is gaming the system legally (legal being key) should be held accountable, since they are doing nothing wrong.

I would almost guarantee with no evidence to prove it that both sides of the aisle are taking full advantage of the tax laws and paying the absolute minimum they have to. Shit knows I do.

It's not gaming the system if you are doing it legally. It's like saying someone is a horrible person for playing chess better than you.

[Orthin]

It's not gaming the system if you are doing it legally. It's like saying someone is a horrible person for playing chess better than you.

You are assigning a negative connotation to when I say "gaming the system" when that was not my what my intentions were. Or at least that is my assumption based on your second sentence.

[Furryrat]

It's not gaming the system if you are doing it legally. It's like saying someone is a horrible person for playing chess better than you.

Seriously. Step back and look at it objectively. The tax law exists in that fashion to protect and encourage business. If your business suffers significant losses due to down periods, economic pullbacks, slow growth, or those first few years of endless 20 hour days fighting for profitability and then on top of that you were still liable for the same tax burden were you to have been profitable all along, well most businesses would never even get there.

Imagine the sports teams that would vanish and never make it through rebuilding years.

Imagine the automakers that would vanish after those first few recall notices.

Imagine all the boarded-up hotels on the beach after that first moron realizes that the balcony rail won't actually hold him for a keg stand.

The tax code is not designed to be punitive. There is no American Dream without these base-level asset protections.

[Seran]

To me this is ultimately the biggest issue. If Trump did everything within his legal power NOT to have to pay much if anything on his taxes than more power to him. Like you suggest I would wager any of these powerful and financially well off folks are also gaming the system and paying significantly less than they could or should by manipulating tax laws in their favor. People do not like parting with their money for any reason and if they can game the system they will. Until tax laws are closed up better no one who is gaming the system legally (legal being key) should be held accountable, since they are doing nothing wrong.

I would almost guarantee with no evidence to prove it that both sides of the aisle are taking full advantage of the tax laws and paying the absolute minimum they have to. Shit knows I do.

The charge being investigated is that the President through the Trump Organization illegally inflated the valuation of assets to to obtain loans, then later wrote down losses on these phantom assets in order to offset tax liability. There are several felonies in the making here.

Personally I applaud the NYT for publishing their story, that the President's returns contradict the narrative of his being a top rated businessman is embarrassing to say the least.

[Wrathbringer]

The charge being investigated is that the President through the Trump Organization illegally inflated the valuation of assets to to obtain loans, then later wrote down losses on these phantom assets in order to offset tax liability. There are several felonies in the making here.

Personally I applaud the NYT for publishing their story, that the President's returns contradict the narrative of his being a top rated businessman is embarrassing to say the least.

Only the butthurt care. Like you.

[ClydeR]

Lock him up!

Assuming everything in the article is 100% true -- a big assumption -- then I do not see any strong evidence of crimes. Viewed in the light most favorable to Trump, it shows that he lied to the public about his real estate business success and about his debt. It also shows that he has been very aggressive in the tax positions he has taken, which is surely not a crime.

Trump might have committed a tax crime if it could be shown that he conspired with the appraiser to overstate the value of the conservation easements, that he falsified his children's work records, that the ≈20% consulting fees on his foreign projects were bribes or a fraudulent attempt to spread income over several people or entities, or that Trump misrepresented his personal use of the Seven Springs property after 2013. Trump might have committed a bank crime if he knowingly overstated the value of his properties to obtain a bank loan or if he submitted falsified documents to the bank in applying for the loans. But that is all speculation, backed up by nothing more than suspicion arising from Trump's generally dishonest character. And, of course, corroborated by the word of people like Michael Cohen, who was convicted of lying under oath about covering up a payoff to Trump's stripper mistress.

Trump's biggest tax noncriminal problem appears to be the refund he received in 2010 that is the subject of the audit. If the article is correct, and they admit they are guessing, then the refund related to a huge loss that Trump incurred in 2009 when he "abandoned" his ownership interest in the Atlantic City casinos. He claimed the loss retroactively to recover all the taxes he paid in 2005 and later. And that is the problem. From what I have read, you can have a taxable loss from an investment without selling it if it becomes worthless or if you abandon it. If it becomes worthless, it is a capital loss, which is subject to different rules. But if you abandon it, then it is not a capital loss and you can claim it against income from prior years. However -- here it comes -- you cannot receive anything, not anything, for abandoning it. If you receive something, you're back to the capital loss rules. At the end of the casino bankruptcy, Trump got some stock in the new company. Uh oh.

Also, regarding the audit and refund, the following was highly informative..


Refunds require the approval of I.R.S. auditors and an opinion of the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation, a bipartisan panel better known for reviewing the impact of tax legislation. Tax law requires the committee to weigh in on all refunds larger than $2 million to individuals.

Records show that the results of an audit of Mr. Trump’s refund were sent to the joint committee in the spring of 2011. An agreement was reached in late 2014, the documents indicate, but the audit resumed and grew to include Mr. Trump’s returns for 2010 through 2013. In the spring of 2016, with Mr. Trump closing in on the Republican nomination, the case was sent back to the committee. It has remained there, unresolved, with the statute of limitations repeatedly pushed forward.

Precisely why the case has stalled is not clear. But experts say it suggests that the gap between the sides remains wide. If negotiations were to deadlock, the case would move to federal court, where it could become a matter of public record.

More... (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html)

[Parkbandit]

The charge being investigated is that the President through the Trump Organization illegally inflated the valuation of assets to to obtain loans, then later wrote down losses on these phantom assets in order to offset tax liability. There are several felonies in the making here.

Personally I applaud the NYT for publishing their story, that the President's returns contradict the narrative of his being a top rated businessman is embarrassing to say the least.

Of course you do. They don't have to show their sources (not that you care) and they make the person you hate the most in the world look bad.

You don't give a shit if it's true or not... because the end justifies the means to you.

[Ardwen]

Trump tweeted essentially admitting these were accurate, he even bragged during the debates with Hillary that he paid no taxes.

[Tgo01]

he even bragged during the debates with Hillary that he paid no taxes.

Which is why I'm finding this all very odd. Clinton already dropped this "bombshell" 4 years ago and Trump said he was smart for not paying more in taxes than he was legally required to, and now here we are 4 years later less than 48 hours before the debate and the "bombshell" is...Trump legally didn't pay much in taxes.

[Ardwen]

The bombshell isn't the taxes, its the debt, owned by unknown foreign entities. As well as the inaccurate documents filed across the board, filing false financials for loans is last time I checked a felony. And according to these documents he and his corporation did so on numerous occasions. Debts to banks owned by the Chinese government and Russian Government apparently own some or all of his debt. This doesn't seem problematical to you?

[Wrathbringer]

The bombshell isn't the taxes, its the debt, owned by unknown foreign entities. As well as the inaccurate documents filed across the board, filing false financials for loans is last time I checked a felony. And according to these documents he and his corporation did so on numerous occasions. Debts to banks owned by the Chinese government and Russian Government apparently own some or all of his debt. This doesn't seem problematical to you?

No. Tardwen.

[Tgo01]

The bombshell isn't the taxes, its the debt, owned by unknown foreign entities. As well as the inaccurate documents filed across the board, filing false financials for loans is last time I checked a felony. And according to these documents he and his corporation did so on numerous occasions. Debts to banks owned by the Chinese government and Russian Government apparently own some or all of his debt. This doesn't seem problematical to you?

So the IRS has all of this information but didn't do anything about it and instead passed it off to the NYT 2 days before a debate?

That's not suspicious at all.

I wonder if people realize the IRS is more than capable of running investigations into tax fraud, in fact they have a whole division dedicated to it. From the very beginning Democrats have had this idea that if only they could get their hands on Trump's tax returns they could prove all sorts of illegal wrong doing, but the IRS would be doing that on their own, they really don't need the help of the public or a bunch of politicians to point out to them any crimes committed.

[Ardwen]

He's under audit and has been apparently for 2 decades, I'd say they are doing something. Congress is sitting on one of his tax refunds without approving it as well.

[Menos]

Each time, he requested an extension to file his 1040; and each time, he made the required payment to the I.R.S. for income taxes he might owe — $1 million for 2016 and $4.2 million for 2017. But virtually all of that liability was washed away when he eventually filed, and most of the payments were rolled forward to cover potential taxes in future years.

So from the article, he actually paid $4.2 million in 2017 when he only owed $750. What a bastard.

What am I supposed to take away from this, that the tax system is not intuitive? I already knew that.

[Tgo01]

He's under audit and has been apparently for 2 decades, I'd say they are doing something. Congress is sitting on one of his tax refunds without approving it as well.

Rich people are always under audit. There is probably an IRS employee whose full time job is to go over Jeff Bezos' taxes with a fine tooth comb.

[Tgo01]

What am I supposed to take away from this, that the tax system is not intuitive? I already knew that.

I think the NYT is hoping people don't know the difference between "tax evasion" and "tax avoidance."

[Ardwen]

Actually a mere 6 percent of the wealthy get audited, and most of them don't get audited every year. But we all know I won't ever convince you.

[drauz]

Show me the part where it's illegal?

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/09/27/ivanka-trump-tax-fraud.html/amp


Donald Trump’s tax returns show that he paid his daughter Ivanka as a consultant, even though she is a member of the company which is against IRS rules.

Mr. Trump reduced his taxable income by treating a family member as a consultant, and then deducting the fee as a cost of doing business.

The “consultants” are not identified in the tax records. But evidence of this arrangement was gleaned by comparing the confidential tax records to the financial disclosures Ivanka Trump filed when she joined the White House staff in 2017. Ms. Trump reported receiving payments from a consulting company she co-owned, totaling $747,622, that exactly matched consulting fees claimed as tax deductions by the Trump Organization for hotel projects in Vancouver and Hawaii.

Ms. Trump had been an executive officer of the Trump companies that received profits from and paid the consulting fees for both projects — meaning she appears to have been treated as a consultant on the same hotel deals that she helped manage as part of her job at her father’s business.

Fake consulting deals with members of a company that is also managing the same project are a big red flag to the IRS. Trump hid income by listing his own daughter a consultant on projects that she was managing. In other words, Ivanka Trump and her father were cheating the United States government, and the American people to hide income and avoid paying taxes.

[Tgo01]

Actually a mere 6 percent of the wealthy get audited, and most of them don't get audited every year. But we all know I won't ever convince you.

What do you mean by "wealthy" exactly? The top 1%? Because if so that includes people making 300k a year, the IRS isn't wasting their time auditing each of these people. I'm talking more like the top .1%.

[Ardwen]

10+ million income is the cutoff they use for top group not 500k

[drauz]

https://i.imgur.com/B95LprK.jpg

[Seran]

https://i.imgur.com/B95LprK.jpg

That's it in a nutshell

[~Rocktar~]

Ahh yes, the mantra of failure, hate the person that is superior since you can't manage to improve yourself using the same rules that apply to everyone.

[Furryrat]

That's it in a nutshell

Nope, this is. https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of-the-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2020-update The CIA strikes again!

In 2017, 143.3 million taxpayers reported earning $10.9 trillion in adjusted gross income and paid $1.6 trillion in individual income taxes.

The share of reported income earned by the top 1 percent of taxpayers rose to 21 percent, from 19.7 percent in 2016. Their share of federal individual income taxes rose to 38.5 percent, from to 37.3 percent in 2016.

In 2017, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent.

The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (38.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.9 percent).

The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 26.8 percent average individual income tax rate, which is more than six times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (4.0 percent).

[Tgo01]

https://i.imgur.com/B95LprK.jpg

Is your argument really that the rich should voluntarily pay more in taxes than they are legally required to? Something tells me you don't.

[Tgo01]

Wasn't Trump's tax returns supposed to show he was owned by Russia? Whatever happened to that narrative?

Now the narrative is Trump legally avoided taxes just like each and every single American does every year?

[Furryrat]

Wasn't Trump's tax returns supposed to show he was owned by Russia? Whatever happened to that narrative?

That's the cleverly ambiguous "foreign debt" in the article, which he has already publicly said he has borrowed from Deutsche Bank. Some spins just leave out that part and go with foreign debt, probably because they cannot pronounce or spell it correctly.

[Tgo01]

This is an interesting read: (https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1310558049858400256.html)


So. I finally read the NYT Trump tax story because I wanted to see what line was being reported for taxes owed and I came across this about the $750 in 2016 and 2017. Per the NYT own story, Trump actually paid to the US Treasury $1 million in 2016 and $4.2 million in 2017.

Read that closely. Trump PAID, as in transferred to the US Treasury, $1 million in 2016 and $4.2 million in 2017. Note also that most of the overpayment was rolled forward, not refunded. The $750 figure is an ADDITIONAL $750. Thus every single story saying he paid $750 is a lie.
It is not simply a lie, it proves that the person making the statement either did not read the story itself (BY THE INSANITY OF CTHULHU READ THE SOURCES) or lack the mental ability to comprehend that the NYT itself claims that Trump paid $1,000,000 in 2016 and $4,200,00 in 2017.
The claim that Trump paid only $750 in Federal taxes in 2016 and 2017 is thus a complete and total lie which is easily disproven by the Times own story. I mind when people lie. I mind more when people lie to me about something I can disprove in minutes.

Sounds like this story is a huge nothing burger that was designed to only resonate with people who have short attention spans and hate the color orange. Oh hey look Democrats!

[Tgo01]

That's the cleverly ambiguous "foreign debt" in the article, which he has already publicly said he has borrowed from Deutsche Bank. Some spins just leave out that part and go with foreign debt, probably because they cannot pronounce or spell it correctly.

Ah yeah, that explains why they worded it as "foreign debt." As if Trump is the first ever American businessman who has borrowed money from "foreign banks."

I don't know why but the media manages to surprise me each and every single day. Every time I think "Yup, this is the bottom for the media" the very next day they reach a new low. Amazing really.

[Keller]

Wasn't Trump's tax returns supposed to show he was owned by Russia? Whatever happened to that narrative?

Now the narrative is Trump legally avoided taxes just like each and every single American does every year?

Trump's tax returns show that he has personally guaranteed at least $421m of his businesses' debts. The IRS does not collect information on who the lenders are. We know he does a lot of business with Deutsche Bank, which has strong ties to the Russian mafia (e.g., Putin and his gang). We also know that the Russian mafia likes to launder money through luxury properties like beach front villas, NYC condos, and golf courses.

A lot of what the NYT described (like Trump paying his kids consulting fees) is not tax fraud or even tax avoidance. But a lot of the other stuff (like claiming 162 deductions for a vacation home and reporting the abandonment of a partnership interest as not a sale or exchange when he received equity in his former partner for abandoning) is more than tax avoidance - it is at least a substantial understatement and at worst fraud.

[Tgo01]

Trump's tax returns show that he has personally guaranteed at least $421m of his businesses' debts. The IRS does not collect information on who the lenders are. We know he does a lot of business with Deutsche Bank, which has strong ties to the Russian mafia (e.g., Putin and his gang). We also know that the Russian mafia likes to launder money through luxury properties like beach front villas, NYC condos, and golf courses.

There's the spin I was hoping for!

Okay so wait, let me see if I understand:

Putin controls the Russian mafia.
The Russian mafia has strong ties with Deutsche Bank.
Trump has done business with Deutsche Bank.
Trump owns a lot of properties.
Russian mafia launders money via properties.
Ergo Trump borrows money from Deutsche Bank to buy properties to launder money for the Russian mafia which is controlled by Putin.

I'd accuse you of writing a spy thriller novel but I don't think you're clever enough.

[Furryrat]

We know he does a lot of business with Deutsche Bank, which has strong ties to the Russian mafia (e.g., Putin and his gang).

You are so full of shit. Germany has some of the strictest financial regulations in the world and has more AAA-rated banking institutions (by Fitch, Moody's, and S&P) than any other country on the planet, and is also home to the European Central Bank.

[Keller]

You are so full of shit. Germany has some of the strictest financial regulations in the world and has more AAA-rated banking institutions (by Fitch, Moody's, and S&P) than any other country on the planet, and is also home to the European Central Bank.

I have my constitutional in the morning. Usually after my second cup of coffee.

I'm just telling you publicly available information.

[Keller]

There's the spin I was hoping for!

Okay so wait, let me see if I understand:

Putin controls the Russian mafia.
The Russian mafia has strong ties with Deutsche Bank.
Trump has done business with Deutsche Bank.
Trump owns a lot of properties.
Russian mafia launders money via properties.
Ergo Trump borrows money from Deutsche Bank to buy properties to launder money for the Russian mafia which is controlled by Putin.

I'd accuse you of writing a spy thriller novel but I don't think you're clever enough.

I'm just telling you what we know.

You're drawing conclusions.

[Furryrat]

I have my constitutional in the morning. Usually after my second cup of coffee.

I'm just telling you publicly available information.

I get enough spicy to move at a far more brisk pace.

It's hard to imagine being regular when all you do is regurgitate fiction.

[Seran]

Man, if I was Trump I'd be terrified of Drudgereport right now. The banner page is an absolute shit show for the President and Matt Drudge has a huge Republican base

[Tgo01]

Man, if I was Trump I'd be terrified of Drudgereport right now. The banner page is an absolute shit show for the President and Matt Drudge has a huge Republican base

The Drudge Report went full blown retard years ago. It's just a bunch of click bait for lefties such as yourself now.

[Tgo01]

This video perfectly encapsulates what's going on.

https://twitter.com/tophertownmusic/status/1310670325785518081?s=20

I couldn't find the original video so this is a "reaction" of the video I am referring to, clearly the dude on the right talking to himself is what I'm referring to. I especially like the bit about the 70k "haircuts." I've already seen retards all over the internet repeating that same lie. 70k for a hair stylist for "The Apprentice" is quite a bit different than Trump spending 70k for haircuts and writing it off like some retards are saying.

It's amazing how easily manipulated Democrats are. It's like they don't even try anymore. The NYT comes running by with some jingling car keys and the Democrats lap that shit up.

[Parkbandit]

This is an interesting read: (https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1310558049858400256.html)

Sounds like this story is a huge nothing burger that was designed to only resonate with people who have short attention spans and hate the color orange. Oh hey look Democrats!

It's the typical ones that get SO FUCKING EXCITED THAT THIS TIME, THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT.. WE GOT HIM!!!!!! Imagine being so fucking stupid that you honestly believe what the media spoon feeds you so long as it's anti-Trump in nature.

Only retards we are missing in this thread are Geijon, Andraste and Backlash..

[drauz]

https://i.imgur.com/0fdBcmy.jpg

[Parkbandit]

This video perfectly encapsulates what's going on.

https://twitter.com/tophertownmusic/status/1310670325785518081?s=20

I couldn't find the original video so this is a "reaction" of the video I am referring to, clearly the dude on the right talking to himself is what I'm referring to. I especially like the bit about the 70k "haircuts." I've already seen retards all over the internet repeating that same lie. 70k for a hair stylist for "The Apprentice" is quite a bit different than Trump spending 70k for haircuts and writing it off like some retards are saying.

It's amazing how easily manipulated Democrats are. It's like they don't even try anymore. The NYT comes running by with some jingling car keys and the Democrats lap that shit up.

It's because in order to be a steadfast Democrat, you have to be easily manipulated. If they told you the truth, many would be like "WTF? Why do I vote for you fucks every single year?"

Granted.. most of the most retarded ones here would still vote Democrat because that is all they know.

[drauz]

It's because in order to be a steadfast Democrat, you have to be easily manipulated.

LOL if you think only Democrats are the easily manipulated ones.

[Parkbandit]

LOL if you think only Democrats are the easily manipulated ones.

You just seem to be. There are exceptions, but to be a solid Democrat supporter, you must throw all logic and common sense out the window.

[drauz]

You just seem to be. There are exceptions, but to be a solid Democrat supporter, you must throw all logic and common sense out the window.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/1AIeYgwnqeBUxh6juu/200.gif

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Are things heating up yet?

Is Trump in jail?

[Astray]

Are things heating up yet?

Is Trump in jail?

S o o n™

[ClydeR]

Are things heating up yet?


#Brokeahontas (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Brokeahontas&src=trend_click&vertical=trends) is trending on Twitter. That's heated.

[Fortybox]

The bombshell isn't the taxes, its the debt, owned by unknown foreign entities. As well as the inaccurate documents filed across the board, filing false financials for loans is last time I checked a felony. And according to these documents he and his corporation did so on numerous occasions. Debts to banks owned by the Chinese government and Russian Government apparently own some or all of his debt. This doesn't seem problematical to you?

Breaking News: Ardwen has been committing silver fraud in the game for years. Several anonymous sources have provided proof of him creating silvers through several exploits in the game. However we will not make any of the data public so as not to jeopardize these sources who have taken enormous personal risks to help inform the public.

[Fortybox]

That's it in a nutshell

Except it's simply not true, at all. The rich pay the lion's share of taxes. Almost half of the population doesn't even pay federal taxes.

[Fortybox]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/1AIeYgwnqeBUxh6juu/200.gif

PB is right. Your previous comments in this thread show your clear misunderstanding of who actually pays taxes.

Also it's very hypocritical of you essentially pointing out that Trump is a cheater when you clearly were part of the coraesine enchanting gang last year.

[Back]

It baffles me why anyone would cheer on the huge disparity of responsibility in this country. Celebrating it or turning your head only encourages it.

The wealthy literally get away with everything. Employees are paid disproportionate wages to produce what people buy with those underpaid wages for the super rich who dodge taxes and in some cases get taxpayer funded subsidies to operate. Meanwhile the underpaid employees who sacrifice their lives doing all the work also pay all the taxes to keep this country running... a country those super rich also get to enjoy and are able to do business in. The super rich and corporations are sucking all the wealth out for themselves and not contributing to our shared quality of environment. In the case of oil companies they are literally destroying our environment for profit and giving absolutely nothing back.

They'll tell you socialism is evil while not paying taxes and raking in subsidies and bailouts. The first thing congress did when the pandemic hit was send $1 trillion of our taxpayer dollars to the banks.

And people cheer this on?

[Tgo01]

It baffles me why anyone would cheer on the huge disparity of responsibility in this country. Celebrating it or turning your head only encourages it.

The irony here is that the Democrats are the ones ignoring it.

Rather than looking at this story and saying "Huh, congress allows this to happen?" The media and your Democrat political overlords have you convinced that rather than pointing the finger at them (who currently control half of the legislative branch and many of which have been in congress for decades), you should point the finger at Trump and other rich people for following the law.

In other words: pull your head out of your ass. It's been in there for at least 10 years, as long as I've been on this forum, it's time to breathe some fresh air for once.

[Archigeek]

No one should be surprised by this.

[Keller]

The irony here is that the Democrats are the ones ignoring it.

Rather than looking at this story and saying "Huh, congress allows this to happen?" The media and your Democrat political overlords have you convinced that rather than pointing the finger at them (who currently control half of the legislative branch and many of which have been in congress for decades), you should point the finger at Trump and other rich people for following the law.

In other words: pull your head out of your ass. It's been in there for at least 10 years, as long as I've been on this forum, it's time to breathe some fresh air for once.

From 30,000 feet, most taxpayers try to reduce as low as possible their taxable income and increase as high as possible their book income. This reduces their tax owed but makes their business look good to investors/lenders.

While you can play games with book income, it is a much better proxy for the actual income of a taxpayer.

Biden's tax plan includes a minimum tax on book income (as opposed to taxable income).

It's a pretty cool idea that should look pretty good to people that support a flat tax.

[Neveragain]

It baffles me why anyone would cheer on the huge disparity of responsibility in this country. Celebrating it or turning your head only encourages it.

The wealthy literally get away with everything. Employees are paid disproportionate wages to produce what people buy with those underpaid wages for the super rich who dodge taxes and in some cases get taxpayer funded subsidies to operate. Meanwhile the underpaid employees who sacrifice their lives doing all the work also pay all the taxes to keep this country running... a country those super rich also get to enjoy and are able to do business in. The super rich and corporations are sucking all the wealth out for themselves and not contributing to our shared quality of environment. In the case of oil companies they are literally destroying our environment for profit and giving absolutely nothing back.

They'll tell you socialism is evil while not paying taxes and raking in subsidies and bailouts. The first thing congress did when the pandemic hit was send $1 trillion of our taxpayer dollars to the banks.

And people cheer this on?

It's easy for me to believe that you somehow think Trump is to blame for tax laws and that Joe Biden, after 50 years, is going to suddenly fix things.

Of course you probably believe Trump is gathering his receipts in January and filing his rapid return at H&R Block.

[~Rocktar~]

It baffles me why anyone would cheer on the huge disparity of responsibility in this country. Celebrating it or turning your head only encourages it.

The wealthy literally get away with everything. Employees are paid disproportionate wages to produce what people buy with those underpaid wages for the super rich who dodge taxes and in some cases get taxpayer funded subsidies to operate. Meanwhile the underpaid employees who sacrifice their lives doing all the work also pay all the taxes to keep this country running... a country those super rich also get to enjoy and are able to do business in. The super rich and corporations are sucking all the wealth out for themselves and not contributing to our shared quality of environment. In the case of oil companies they are literally destroying our environment for profit and giving absolutely nothing back.

They'll tell you socialism is evil while not paying taxes and raking in subsidies and bailouts. The first thing congress did when the pandemic hit was send $1 trillion of our taxpayer dollars to the banks.

And people cheer this on?

BOOOOO FUCKING HOOOOO! All I hear is they crying of a jealous person regurgitating the Leftist mantra of hating those that are better than them while refusing to take the same steps to improve themselves available to everyone in our society.

The Left is the biggest bunch of self loathing, racist, sexist, mysandry idiots there ever were. You have no clue and your feelers are hurt despite the 10% of income earners paying like 80% of all income tax, the bottom 50% paying something like 4% and still you can't manage to take personal responsibility for your pathetic lives. I should not be surprised since if you did take personal responsibility, you would stop being Leftists and improve your own damn lives instead of waiting for the government tit to come around so you can suckle more of what you haven't earned in the first place.

I mean fuck dude, grow up already. I am a fat, old, under employed white guy living alone with my cat. I bought a house, own my vehicles debt free, pay my bills and am recovering from bariatric surgery in order to correct the lack of personal responsibility I had in my youth. Life isn't fair or I would be 6' or more like my father and grandfathers, instead, I barely make 5' 9". Deal with it you whiny fuck.

[Parkbandit]

It baffles me why anyone would cheer on the huge disparity of responsibility in this country. Celebrating it or turning your head only encourages it.

The wealthy literally get away with everything. Employees are paid disproportionate wages to produce what people buy with those underpaid wages for the super rich who dodge taxes and in some cases get taxpayer funded subsidies to operate. Meanwhile the underpaid employees who sacrifice their lives doing all the work also pay all the taxes to keep this country running... a country those super rich also get to enjoy and are able to do business in. The super rich and corporations are sucking all the wealth out for themselves and not contributing to our shared quality of environment. In the case of oil companies they are literally destroying our environment for profit and giving absolutely nothing back.

They'll tell you socialism is evil while not paying taxes and raking in subsidies and bailouts. The first thing congress did when the pandemic hit was send $1 trillion of our taxpayer dollars to the banks.

And people cheer this on?

Which candidate do you believe is more responsible for the system we have... the guy who has spent the past 50 years in politics at the highest level.. or the guy who just got into politics 4 years ago?

[Seran]

The irony here is that the Democrats are the ones ignoring it.

Rather than looking at this story and saying "Huh, congress allows this to happen?" The media and your Democrat political overlords have you convinced that rather than pointing the finger at them (who currently control half of the legislative branch and many of which have been in congress for decades), you should point the finger at Trump and other rich people for following the law.

In other words: pull your head out of your ass. It's been in there for at least 10 years, as long as I've been on this forum, it's time to breathe some fresh air for once.

The same man who has successfully evaded taxes all those years got with Republican allies and made tax rates for the wealthy and corporations even lower and full of deductions. It's incredibly inaccurate to blame congress in general for the aristocracy enabling Republicans

[Tgo01]

The same man who has successfully evaded taxes


I think the NYT is hoping people don't know the difference between "tax evasion" and "tax avoidance."

Here comes Seran to prove my point.

[Taernath]

"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes." - Leona Helmsley

[Parkbandit]

The same man who has successfully evaded taxes all those years got with Republican allies and made tax rates for the wealthy and corporations even lower and full of deductions. It's incredibly inaccurate to blame congress in general for the aristocracy enabling Republicans

Which branch of government is responsible for the current tax law?

1) President
2) Congress
3) SCOTUS
4) Tree

[Solkern]

I think the NYT is hoping people don't know the difference between "tax evasion" and "tax avoidance."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-ivanka-trump-tax-fraud_n_5f7292dfc5b6f622a0c375f9


Seems that he could be facing jail time if what the NYT has released is accurate.

[Tgo01]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-ivanka-trump-tax-fraud_n_5f7292dfc5b6f622a0c375f9


Seems that he could be facing jail time if what the NYT has released is accurate.

Right. The IRS has had all of this information for years now and never once thought about a criminal investigation until HuffPost and NYT were on the case!

Christ, you people.

[Back]

BOOOOO FUCKING HOOOOO! All I hear is they crying of a jealous person regurgitating the Leftist mantra of hating those that are better than them while refusing to take the same steps to improve themselves available to everyone in our society.

The Left is the biggest bunch of self loathing, racist, sexist, mysandry idiots there ever were. You have no clue and your feelers are hurt despite the 10% of income earners paying like 80% of all income tax, the bottom 50% paying something like 4% and still you can't manage to take personal responsibility for your pathetic lives. I should not be surprised since if you did take personal responsibility, you would stop being Leftists and improve your own damn lives instead of waiting for the government tit to come around so you can suckle more of what you haven't earned in the first place.

I mean fuck dude, grow up already. I am a fat, old, under employed white guy living alone with my cat. I bought a house, own my vehicles debt free, pay my bills and am recovering from bariatric surgery in order to correct the lack of personal responsibility I had in my youth. Life isn't fair or I would be 6' or more like my father and grandfathers, instead, I barely make 5' 9". Deal with it you whiny fuck.

Never think you're a lesser person than someone else because they have more money than you.

[~Rocktar~]

Never think you're a lesser person than someone else because they have more money than you.

I am not a Leftist so it's not a problem.

[Furryrat]

Right. The IRS has had all of this information for years now and never once thought about a criminal investigation until HuffPost and NYT were on the case!

Christ, you people.

Seriously, and they actually believe that you can take the oath of office to become the President of the United States of America ...without having your financial records reviewed. We really should add some liberal clickbait to our national security procedures to fill in some of these holes.

[Solkern]

Right. The IRS has had all of this information for years now and never once thought about a criminal investigation until HuffPost and NYT were on the case!

Christ, you people.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/23/nixon-trump-tax-returns-1050587

It wasnt till after Nixon released his tax returns, that they found out he owed a fuck ton of money.

[Parkbandit]

Never think you're a lesser person than someone else because they have more money than you.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/J2UaMLB2FljL81Q8Mc/source.gif

[Parkbandit]

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/23/nixon-trump-tax-returns-1050587

It wasnt till after Nixon released his tax returns, that they found out he owed a fuck ton of money.

Owing money isn't a crime.

[Tgo01]

Seriously, and they actually believe that you can take the oath of office to become the President of the United States of America ...without having your financial records reviewed. We really should add some liberal clickbait to our national security procedures to fill in some of these holes.

Clearly we need to just hand over tax information on all US citizens to HuffPost and NYT so they can find instances of tax fraud since apparently the IRS isn't up to the task.

This is the shit people repeat without even once giving it a second thought.

It's the same shit they have been saying for 4 years that if only Trump's tax information were made public it would prove he has all sorts of illegal dealings with Russia! Because that's what you do when you're breaking the law, you put it all on tax forms then submit it to the IRS because apparently the IRS doesn't know how to investigate tax fraud.

[Solkern]

Owing money isn't a crime.


Not saying it is, but why did it take a public release of his taxes to find out he owed money to the IRS? That’s all im getting it. To just say the IRS had his returns for years! He’s in the clear, obviously isn’t right.

[Tgo01]

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/23/nixon-trump-tax-returns-1050587

It wasnt till after Nixon released his tax returns, that they found out he owed a fuck ton of money.

If I'm understanding the story correctly, a Democrat operative in the IRS leaked Nixon's tax information (GEE SURPRISE THERE!), which prompted a bunch of questions of whether he underpaid which then prompted an audit by the IRS who found he did underpay.

Trump has been under audit for years now, this has been public knowledge for years as well. This isn't even remotely the same as this story. Unless we are now to believe that the IRS has been giving Trump a break even before he ran for president, which seems unlikely.

[Parkbandit]

Not saying it is, but why did it take a public release of his taxes to find out he owed money to the IRS? That’s all im getting it. To just say the IRS had his returns for years! He’s in the clear, obviously isn’t right.

https://westchestertownhall.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Straw-Man_500.gif

Who said that because the IRS has your tax return that you are "in the clear"?

[Furryrat]

Ain't it funny that the years they say he paid little taxes (2016 and 2017) just so happened to be the years after he said he had transferred his business ownerships to the Foundation and also refused his $400,000 salary? Huh. No wonder they didn't mention the specifics on what his income was for those years.

I hope that during this debate, when they try to hammer him on this "story," he pulls out a printed copy of his 1040 and shows this smut for what it is. And also sends Biden into a slobbering dither as his pre-scripted responses will be out the window.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Not saying it is, but why did it take a public release of his taxes to find out he owed money to the IRS? That’s all im getting it. To just say the IRS had his returns for years! He’s in the clear, obviously isn’t right.

Wait, there was a public release of Trump's tax records?

Or are you confusing an anonymous source as a public release by Trump or the IRS?

[Solkern]

Right. The IRS has had all of this information for years now and never once thought about a criminal investigation until HuffPost and NYT were on the case!

Christ, you people.

PB, I took this post as, the IRS has had his returns for years and they have done nothing, so he must be in the clear.
Or should I have taken it a different way?

[Solkern]

Wait, there was a public release of Trump's tax records?

Or are you confusing an anonymous source as a public release by Trump or the IRS?

Not sure what you are getting at. I never mentioned Trump’s taxes being made public record. It was a reference that they only found out Nixon owed more money after his taxes became public. So relying on just the IRS to find problems isn’t a sure thing.

[Wrathbringer]

It's the typical ones that get SO FUCKING EXCITED THAT THIS TIME, THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT.. WE GOT HIM!!!!!! Imagine being so fucking stupid that you honestly believe what the media spoon feeds you so long as it's anti-Trump in nature.

Only retards we are missing in this thread are Geijon, Andraste and Backlash..

And pk.

[Gelston]

And pk.

Pk is either dead or in jail. I highly doubt he has the mental capacity to willingly leave the PC for this long.

[Wrathbringer]

Pk is either dead or in jail. I highly doubt he has the mental capacity to willingly leave the PC for this long.

Agree.

[Seran]

Not sure what you are getting at. I never mentioned Trump’s taxes being made public record. It was a reference that they only found out Nixon owed more money after his taxes became public. So relying on just the IRS to find problems isn’t a sure thing.

Discounting the very real fact that there was no motivation for the IRS to piss off Nixon until the information became public and there was such a mounting public backlash to do something about it. I can see this happening now, regardless of the treasury secretaries feelings.

[Tgo01]

Discounting the very real fact that there was no motivation for the IRS to piss off Nixon until the information became public and there was such a mounting public backlash to do something about it. I can see this happening now, regardless of the treasury secretaries feelings.

So the IRS has been auditing Trump for years even before he became president but they decided to give him a pass just in case he ran for president and won and didn't want to piss him off?

The conspiracy theories are off the charts lately.

[drauz]

Except it's simply not true, at all. The rich pay the lion's share of taxes. Almost half of the population doesn't even pay federal taxes.

Top 1% pay roughly 37%. The middle class pays the lion's share of taxes, which would be the rest.

[Tgo01]

Top 1% pay roughly 37%. The middle class pays the lion's share of taxes, which would be the rest.

The middle class is the entire 99%? Or the rest of the 63% of taxes is paid for by the middle class?

Either way:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/2607b40a76cb60ae080c721b3f93c585/tenor.gif

[drauz]

Except it's simply not true, at all. The rich pay the lion's share of taxes. Almost half of the population doesn't even pay federal taxes.

Yeah that 47% of people not paying income tax is misleading. Only 11% of people aged 22-55 pay no income tax.

[Gelston]

Top 1% pay roughly 37%. The middle class pays the lion's share of taxes, which would be the rest.

1% pays 37% of the taxes? So, 3.5 million people pay roughly the same as the next 125 million?

[drauz]

PB is right. Your previous comments in this thread show your clear misunderstanding of who actually pays taxes.

Also it's very hypocritical of you essentially pointing out that Trump is a cheater when you clearly were part of the coraesine enchanting gang last year.

Are... Are you admitting Trump is a cheater?

[Furryrat]

Yeah that 47% of people not paying income tax is misleading. Only 11% of people aged 22-55 pay no income tax.


https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of-the-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2020-update

Reposted since there is still some confusion as to what the facts really are.

Added: The average tax burden (meaning tax actually paid, NOT returned) for the bottom 50% of those who filed a return was $50 in 2017.

In 2017, 143.3 million taxpayers reported earning $10.9 trillion in adjusted gross income and paid $1.6 trillion in individual income taxes.

The share of reported income earned by the top 1 percent of taxpayers rose to 21 percent, from 19.7 percent in 2016. Their share of federal individual income taxes rose to 38.5 percent, from to 37.3 percent in 2016.

In 2017, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent.

The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (38.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.9 percent).

[drauz]

Right. The IRS has had all of this information for years now and never once thought about a criminal investigation until HuffPost and NYT were on the case!

Christ, you people.

Its funny how the government is only inept when it suits your purpose but now the IRS are all Sherlock Holmes. Theres certainly no way they could have missed a single deduction that reporters looked into more indepth and found the connection. Yeah, no chance at all.

[Tgo01]

Its funny how the government is only inept when it suits your purpose but now the IRS are all Sherlock Holmes. Theres certainly no way they could have missed a single deduction that reporters looked into more indepth and found the connection. Yeah, no chance at all.

Yeah the NYT and HuffPost can catch in minutes what the IRS has missed in years.

Again:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AlertAgonizingDragonfly-size_restricted.gif

[Furryrat]

Biden just release his purported tax returns, showing just under a million in income, putting him in the top 1%, and having paid an effective tax rate of 31%. Convenient, it was 11 million dollars a year or two prior, and his effective rate is more than 5% above the average for the group.

Kamala Harris and her husband reported just over 3 million in income, putting them in the top 0.1%, and having paid a ridiculous 39% effective rate. This is more than 12% above the average for the group.

Looks like the strategy was release the Times story, and have Biden/Harris claim no credits to pay the highest rate to draw the starkest contrast between the two sides.

Such an ugly game.

[Parkbandit]

Top 1% pay roughly 37%. The middle class pays the lion's share of taxes, which would be the rest.

Define "middle class" because you are wrong.

We will wait.

[drauz]

Yeah the NYT and HuffPost can catch in minutes what the IRS has missed in years.

Again:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AlertAgonizingDragonfly-size_restricted.gif

Do you think the IRS goes over EVERY tax return the person has ever filed each year?

[drauz]

Define "middle class" because you are wrong.

We will wait.

No

[Tgo01]

Biden just release his purported tax returns, showing just under a million in income, putting him in the top 1%, and having paid an effective tax rate of 31%. Convenient, it was 11 million dollars a year or two prior, and his effective rate is more than 5% above the average for the group.

Kamala Harris and her husband reported just over 3 million in income, putting them in the top 0.1%, and having paid a ridiculous 39% effective rate. This is more than 12% above the average for the group.

Looks like the strategy was release the Times story, and have Biden/Harris claim no credits to pay the highest rate to draw the starkest contrast between the two sides.

Such an ugly game.

This is why I have always thought releasing tax returns is so dumb. Like we don't know the people running for president are millionaires? And now with this dumb shit it's just going to encourage people to cook the numbers for a couple of years before the election.

Like what millionaire wouldn't mind paying an extra hundred thousand a year for a couple of years if it gave them a boost in the polls for president? But this is where we are now because the left has been so dumb over this tax return nonsense.

[Tgo01]

Do you think the IRS goes over EVERY tax return the person has ever filed each year?

Not every tax payer, just the ones under audit every year.

This wouldn't be such a retarded talking point if Trump hasn't been under audit for years now. Like what do people think the point of an audit is?

[drauz]

Not every tax payer, just the ones under audit every year.

This wouldn't be such a retarded talking point if Trump hasn't been under audit for years now. Like what do people think the point of an audit is?

So your take is that the evidence is just wrong? I don't see you refuting anything.

[Keller]

Not every tax payer, just the ones under audit every year.

This wouldn't be such a retarded talking point if Trump hasn't been under audit for years now. Like what do people think the point of an audit is?

You know when Trump says he has been under audit for years he is referring to the open audit of his claimed refund, which is currently with a special House subcommittee that reviews refund requests like his? It was in the committee during the 2016 election and likely has been frozen while he is POTUS.

They aren't auditing his returns every year. He currently has an audit open with respect to a year in which he claimed a large refund for a sketchy position.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I enjoy watching dems/libs flail about readily available tax data from the US government. It's really clear when you look at the statistics who pays taxes and who doesn't.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

You know when Trump says he has been under audit for years he is referring to the open audit of his claimed refund, which is currently with a special House subcommittee that reviews refund requests like his? It was in the committee during the 2016 election and likely has been frozen while he is POTUS.

They aren't auditing his returns every year. He currently has an audit open with respect to a year in which he claimed a large refund for a sketchy position.

So what?

I see you trolling.

[Tgo01]

So your take is that the evidence is just wrong? I don't see you refuting anything.

My take is:

A) I tend not to believe anonymous sources anymore.
B) Even if the documents are true how did HuffPost arrive to the conclusion that Trump has committed all sorts of crimes that should land him in prison while the IRS after combing through his tax records for years haven't found anything? This leads me back to A, this is all probably bullshit.

[drauz]

My take is:

A) I tend not to believe anonymous sources anymore.
B) Even if the documents are true how did HuffPost arrive to the conclusion that Trump has committed all sorts of crimes that should land him in prison while the IRS after combing through his tax records for years haven't found anything? This leads me back to A, this is all probably bullshit.


Donald Trump’s tax returns show that he paid his daughter Ivanka as a consultant, even though she is a member of the company which is against IRS rules.

Mr. Trump reduced his taxable income by treating a family member as a consultant, and then deducting the fee as a cost of doing business.

The “consultants” are not identified in the tax records. But evidence of this arrangement was gleaned by comparing the confidential tax records to the financial disclosures Ivanka Trump filed when she joined the White House staff in 2017. Ms. Trump reported receiving payments from a consulting company she co-owned, totaling $747,622, that exactly matched consulting fees claimed as tax deductions by the Trump Organization for hotel projects in Vancouver and Hawaii.

Ms. Trump had been an executive officer of the Trump companies that received profits from and paid the consulting fees for both projects — meaning she appears to have been treated as a consultant on the same hotel deals that she helped manage as part of her job at her father’s business.

Fake consulting deals with members of a company that is also managing the same project are a big red flag to the IRS. Trump hid income by listing his own daughter a consultant on projects that she was managing. In other words, Ivanka Trump and her father were cheating the United States government, and the American people to hide income and avoid paying taxes.

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/09/27/ivanka-trump-tax-fraud.html/amp

This was already posted here, but I'll repost for you.

[Tgo01]

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/09/27/ivanka-trump-tax-fraud.html/amp

This was already posted here, but I'll repost for you.

Yeah you'll have to forgive me if I don't take a single word seriously from an article that ends with this:


She also could share her father’s legal jeopardy, as daddy could be taking his little girl down with him for his decades of theft and fraud.

If I didn't know any better I would bet this was literally Keller writing this article, but he isn't wishing anyone dies so it's probably not him.

Let's wait for the IRS to do their investigation (or maybe they already did and found nothing?) before we take every retarded leftist's word as gospel, especially since NO DOCUMENTS WERE EVEN RELEASED. Like holy shit. The "documents" could be completely made up from the anonymous source. NYT could be making up the documents themselves. But hey we already have Never Trump idiots out there claiming this is all the proof they need that Trump has been committing theft and fraud for decades and not only is he going to jail but his daughter is too!

[Parkbandit]

No

It's ok, you were wrong. Just take a deep breath, walk away from the computer, and have some water. You'll get thru this I promise. I know it doesn't seem like it now but you will. I have no doubt you'll forget all about this in a week and move on to be wrong about something else.

[drauz]

It's ok, you were wrong. Just take a deep breath, walk away from the computer, and have some water. You'll get thru this I promise. I know it doesn't seem like it now but you will. I have no doubt you'll forget all about this in a week and move on to be wrong about something else.

No.

[Parkbandit]

No.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/3oz8xLd9DJq2l2VFtu/giphy.gif

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Where are all these websites coming from? Politicususa.com? Huh?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Next thing we know, someone will quote Backrash's blog as a news source.

[drauz]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/3oz8xLd9DJq2l2VFtu/giphy.gif

https://media4.giphy.com/media/dNKoBpFpIFnr2/giphy.gif

[Keller]

So what?

I see you trolling.

So he is not under continuous audit, which is what he wants suckers to believe. See, e.g., Tgo believing it.

[Fortybox]

Are... Are you admitting Trump is a cheater?

Of course you're reading comprehension is bad too. No, I'm saying it's bad for a cheater (that's you) to call other people cheaters.

[Fortybox]

So he is not under continuous audit, which is what he wants suckers to believe. See, e.g., Tgo believing it.

Is he under audit for 432,000,000,0000,00,0,00000?

[Archigeek]

One of my friends shared that the website "effing birds" paid $22,250 more in income tax than Donald Trump in 2017. I checked out the website. Wrathbringer, is that you?

https://www.effinbirds.com/

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

One of my friends shared that the website "effing birds" paid $22,250 more in income tax than Donald Trump in 2017. I checked out the website. Wrathbringer, is that you?

https://www.effinbirds.com/

What do you think DJT's taxable income was in tax year 2017, after he decline the salary and signed over all his businesses the tax year before?

Serious question, how much do you think his taxable earnings were in tax year 2017.

[Archigeek]

What do you think DJT's taxable income was in tax year 2017, after he decline the salary and signed over all his businesses the tax year before?

Serious question, how much do you think his taxable earnings were in tax year 2017.

I'm just reporting the news bro, go to the website. It made me laugh. I don't think you're being honest when you say that's a serious question, but based on the NYT report the answer would be $750.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm just reporting the news bro, go to the website. It made me laugh. I don't think you're being honest when you say that's a serious question, but based on the NYT report the answer would be $750.

Incorrect. If the NYT is accurate, he PAID $750. His taxable income would be different.

What do you think it was, serious question.

[drauz]

Of course you're reading comprehension is bad too. No, I'm saying it's bad for a cheater (that's you) to call other people cheaters.


essentially pointing out that Trump is a cheater

Yeah, thats not how it reads buddy.

I was just ahead of my time since coraesine is going to be enchantable soon. I'm just an innovator.

[Archigeek]

Incorrect. If the NYT is accurate, he PAID $750. His taxable income would be different.

What do you think it was, serious question.

Yeah, I missunderstood, as I assumed you meant, what did he pay. If you seriously want an answer to your question, try asking an accountant instead of an architect.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yeah, I missunderstood, as I assumed you meant, what did he pay. If you seriously want an answer to your question, try asking an accountant instead of an architect.

You were just reporting the news I thought, so surely you have the answer. I mean, that's what you said a couple posts ago...

The real answer is no one knows, and you and I both know that. It's just a hit job until Trump releases them or a court subpoena's them and gets them released.

[Archigeek]

You were just reporting the news I thought, so surely you have the answer. I mean, that's what you said a couple posts ago...

The real answer is no one knows, and you and I both know that. It's just a hit job until Trump releases them or a court subpoena's them and gets them released.

Yes and no. A hit job yes, but he earned it. I am willing to bet that the taxes paid numbers in the article are accurate, and they're significant with or without the income numbers, so stop trying to pretend that they don't matter without the income numbers. The guy has a long history of lying and cheating in business. No one should be shocked if his taxes are cooked.

And if you know I didn't know the answer then it wasn't a serious question. Like I said.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yes and no. A hit job yes, but he earned it. I am willing to bet that the taxes paid numbers in the article are accurate, and they're significant with or without the income numbers, so stop trying to pretend that they don't matter without the income numbers. The guy has a long history of lying and cheating in business. No one should be shocked if his taxes are cooked.

And if you know I didn't know the answer then it wasn't a serious question. Like I said.

If I paid 300K in taxes throughout the year, and had accrued a tax debt of a total of 300,750 in taxes, I pay 750 at the end. Income absolutely matters, as does what was taxed throughout.

[Riltus]

"I paid millions of dollars in taxes, millions of dollars of income tax," Trump said.

As the president continued to speak, Biden interrupted, saying "Show us your tax returns."


"You'll see it as soon as it's finished," Trump replied.

Debate moderator Chris Wallace then asked Trump if he'll tell the public how much he paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017. Trump replied "millions of dollars" and said "you'll get to see it."

If he paid millions of dollars in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017 then his taxable income would likely be in the tens of millions. Of course he could easily prove this statement by just disclosing the amount on two lines of form 1040. Lines 63 (total tax) and 74 (tax payments) for tax years 2016 and 2017. He wouldn't have to disclose any other information - just those two entries. Simple!

Mark

[Parkbandit]

Where are all these websites coming from? Politicususa.com? Huh?

From their own website: PoliticusUSA offers news, commentary, and opinion from a liberal point of view.

At least they aren't pretending to be a source.. unlike drauz.

"BUT IT HAS POLITIC IN TEH NAME!"

[Fortybox]

Yeah, thats not how it reads buddy.

I was just ahead of my time since coraesine is going to be enchantable soon. I'm just an innovator.

Glad you admit you cheated. Wyrom will cave in for $ so not surprised.

[drauz]

From their own website: PoliticusUSA offers news, commentary, and opinion from a liberal point of view.

At least they aren't pretending to be a source.. unlike drauz.

"BUT IT HAS POLITIC IN TEH NAME!"

Would that not be a crime if its true?

[Parkbandit]

Would that not be a crime if its true?

https://i.imgflip.com/1zkwyw.jpg

[drauz]

https://i.imgflip.com/1zkwyw.jpg

So yes? Understood.

[Parkbandit]

So yes? Understood.

Why did you rape that lady last year in the supermarket, then drag her body into the alley and cut her up into little pieces?

That is a crime, is it not?

[drauz]

Why did you rape that lady last year in the supermarket, then drag her body into the alley and cut her up into little pieces?

That is a crime, is it not?

Yes that is a crime.

See, its not that hard.

[Parkbandit]

Yes that is a crime.

See, its not that hard.

You should go to jail. Go turn yourself in.

[drauz]

You should go to jail. Go turn yourself in.

So is what the article said a crime? Or do you want to deflect some more?

[Parkbandit]

So is what the article said a crime? Or do you want to deflect some more?

I have said on multiple occasions that I don't play hypothetical games.. especially if the article has already proclaimed his guilt.

It was nothing more than a hit piece designed to make people who require their "news" to be spoon fed to them without having to be burdened by that pesky thinking and logic getting in the way.

[drauz]

I have said on multiple occasions that I don't play hypothetical games.. especially if the article has already proclaimed his guilt.

It was nothing more than a hit piece designed to make people who require their "news" to be spoon fed to them without having to be burdened by that pesky thinking and logic getting in the way.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/aVBcwz1jd28A8/200.gif

[Parkbandit]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/aVBcwz1jd28A8/200.gif

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?126456-Trump%92s-tax-avoidance-and-financial-disasters&p=2174608#post2174608

[drauz]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?126456-Trump%92s-tax-avoidance-and-financial-disasters&p=2174608#post2174608

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Parkbandit]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I sleep very well at night.

I'm not the one playing hypothetical games and eating up every story that paints President Trump in a bad light.

That's you.

[drauz]

I sleep very well at night.

I'm not the one playing hypothetical games and eating up every story that paints President Trump in a bad light.

That's you.

Tgo brought up the hypothetical of IF they are true. The other time I posted it was when someone else asked what could be illegal about the returns.

Any other bullshit you want to spit up? Do you have an actual opinion or you just good with critiquing everyone else's opinions without ever offering your own.

[Parkbandit]

Tgo brought up the hypothetical of IF they are true. The other time I posted it was when someone else asked what could be illegal about the returns.

Any other bullshit you want to spit up? Do you have an actual opinion or you just good with critiquing everyone else's opinions without ever offering your own.

Do you need me to say that if Trump did something illegal with his taxes that it would be illegal?

ok.

[drauz]

Do you need me to say that if Trump did something illegal with his taxes that it would be illegal?

ok.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/diss1MXzXlA8o/giphy.gif