Transgender person sues to have birth certificate changed

[drauz]

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/transgender-woman-sues-idaho-changing-my-birth-certificate-is-my-first-amendment-right/


A transgender woman claimed in a lawsuit that Idaho has violated her free speech rights by refusing to change the gender on her birth certificate.

Idaho’s “stigmatizing refusal” to issue revised birth certificates constitutes a First Amendment violation because it both “prevents transgender individuals from accurately expressing their gender” and violates their “rights… to refrain from speaking by forcing them to disclose their transgender status and to identify with a gender that conflicts with who they are,” the complaint claims.

The 28-year-old, listed only as F.V. in court records, also says that by refusing to issue the revised birth certificate, Idaho “subjects [transgender people] to discrimination, privacy invasions, harassment, humiliation, stigma and even violence.”

Do you think you should be able to change your birth records?

[Ososis]

My stumbling point is that if gender doesn't matter then how can it matter so much? That being said, I don't care how you identify cause none of it means anything to me cause nothing matters.

[Gelston]

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/transgender-woman-sues-idaho-changing-my-birth-certificate-is-my-first-amendment-right/



Do you think you should be able to change your birth records?

No. You are what you are.

[Androidpk]

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/transgender-woman-sues-idaho-changing-my-birth-certificate-is-my-first-amendment-right/



Do you think you should be able to change your birth records?

Sure, why not.

[Gelston]

You're born as what you are born as. Unless they create a time traveling device and go back in time and change that, they were whatever they were when they were born. Caitlyn Jenner isn't all of a suddenly a female olympic gold medalist, he won that shit as a man. It is about records. Fact of the matter, that person was what they were born as. And really, still is, since we can't really turn someone into the opposite sex yet.

[Lady Lightning]

Birth certificates are historical artifacts. So long as there is an indicator for sex, it should be reported at birth and remain on the document.

[Thondalar]

You're born as what you are born as. Unless they create a time traveling device and go back in time and change that, they were whatever they were when they were born. Caitlyn Jenner isn't all of a suddenly a female olympic gold medalist, he won that shit as a man. It is about records. Fact of the matter, that person was what they were born as. And really, still is, since we can't really turn someone into the opposite sex yet.

I say to hell with all of this.

We should start by removing gender separation in sports, especially MMA and boxing. Equality!

[drauz]

I say to hell with all of this.

We should start by removing gender separation in sports, especially MMA and boxing. Equality!

Whenever I see this I always think of the Williams sisters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)#1998:_Karsten_Braasch _vs._the_Williams_sisters


Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[32] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams, aged 17 and 16 respectively, had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager".[33][34] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[35] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two beers. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2.[36] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun".[37] Braasch said the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier, and that men put spin on the ball that the women can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.

Believe it or not there are differences between men and women.

[Tgo01]

All I saw in the title was "transgender" and "certificate" and thought someone in game was trying to get their gender changed and was complaining the GMs were being unfair, or that the GMs were offering this service to the transgender community.

I'm not sure if I'm disappointed this wasn't the case.

[Androidpk]

All I saw in the title was "transgender" and "certificate" and thought someone in game was trying to get their gender changed and was complaining the GMs were being unfair, or that the GMs were offering this service to the transgender community.

I'm not sure if I'm disappointed this wasn't the case.

Don't give Ashliana any ideas.

[Thondalar]

Whenever I see this I always think of the Williams sisters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)#1998:_Karsten_Braasch _vs._the_Williams_sisters

Believe it or not there are differences between men and women.

Well, this is sort of where I'm at with it.

If you were born with a penis but got some serious Shania Twain shit going on, more power to you. I couldn't care less about your "identity".

The issues come when you try to change what works for 99% of the rest of the world to fit YOUR reality. Guess what, princess, the world doesn't revolve around you. If your sense of self-worth is irrevocably damaged by a birth certificate or a bathroom sign, you have bigger issues than changing either of those things will fix.

Man up. Grow a pair. Etc etc.

[Thondalar]

Birth certificates are historical artifacts. So long as there is an indicator for sex, it should be reported at birth and remain on the document.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...logic has no place here.

[Taernath]

I don't care what gender someone feels they are, so I don't care what gender is on a piece of paper, seekrit muslim communists notwithstanding.

[drauz]

Man up. Grow a pair. Etc etc.

Some of them are trying to do both!

[Neveragain]

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/transgender-woman-sues-idaho-changing-my-birth-certificate-is-my-first-amendment-right/



Do you think you should be able to change your birth records?

I'm not a supporter of a person being required to be titled through the state so I don't give a fuck.

This person doesn't stand a chance in the Idaho court system anyway.

[~Rocktar~]

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/transgender-woman-sues-idaho-changing-my-birth-certificate-is-my-first-amendment-right/



Do you think you should be able to change your birth records?

No. You were born one thing, then you became something different. Changing history is a hallmark of Leftist culture.

[Androidpk]

Changing history is a hallmark of humans in general.

[Roiken]

Speaking of Hallmark it seems like the kind of story they would enjoy producing to create DRAMA.. as to the topic I feel like unless your genetics say so you are what you are, if that means you piss standing or you piss sitting deal with it.

[Orthin]

this is me as a novice but if you legally change your name they wouldn't change your birth certificate correct? And if that is the case then why would they hange the sex?

[Gelston]

this is me as a novice but if you legally change your name they wouldn't change your birth certificate correct? And if that is the case then why would they hange the sex?

Depends on the state. Some will, some won't.

[Back]

Why is the right so preoccupied with transgender issues?

[Gelston]

No one went and looked for this issue, a woman filed a lawsuit. Stop being retarded.

[Warriorbird]

No one went and looked for this issue, a woman filed a lawsuit. Stop being retarded.

Reflect on North Carolina.

[Back]

No one went and looked for this issue, a woman filed a lawsuit. Stop being retarded.

I could understand if this was a one off thread. But lately transgender issues keep coming up and it's not the libtards on this board going out of their way to do it.

[Gelston]

I could understand if this was a one off thread. But lately transgender issues keep coming up and it's not the libtards on this board going out of their way to do it.

Who went out of their way to do anything here?

[Candor]

Since the lawsuit wasn't filed in New York, Massachusetts, Hawaii, or California, I predict it has zero chance of success.

[time4fun]

Here's a concept for you:. YOU don't get to decide what's on SOMEONE ELSE'S birth certificate.

YOU don't get to decide SOMEONE ELSE'S gender.

YOU don't get to decide SOMEONE ELSE'S name.

YOU have to respect SOMEONE ELSE'S identity. Just as you expect them to do for you.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: grow up.

[Gelston]

Here's a concept for you:. YOU don't get to decide what's on SOMEONE ELSE'S birth certificate.

YOU don't get to decide SOMEONE ELSE'S gender.

No, science does.

The idea that Birth Certificates are generally considered historical records is baffling, I know.

[drauz]

Here's a concept for you:. YOU don't get to decide what's on SOMEONE ELSE'S birth certificate.

YOU don't get to decide SOMEONE ELSE'S gender.

YOU don't get to decide SOMEONE ELSE'S name.

YOU have to respect SOMEONE ELSE'S identity. Just as you expect them to do for you.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: grow up.

No, you don't have to respect anyone.....

Respect is earned not given freely. Otherwise it loses all meaning.

Do I have to respect someone that thinks they are a wolf-kin, just because they think they are? Do I have to respect someone who believes in Elvis? The answer to both is no.

It is quite hypocritical for you to say this but you have no problem labeling someone as a racist, fascist, etc. Just because YOU believe THEY are. Again though its ok because you are the "right" people saying it to the "wrong" people.

[time4fun]

No, you don't have to respect anyone.....

Respect is earned not given freely. Otherwise it loses all meaning.

Do I have to respect someone that thinks they are a wolf-kin, just because they think they are? Do I have to respect someone who believes in Elvis? The answer to both is no.

It is quite hypocritical for you to say this but you have no problem labeling someone as a racist, fascist, etc. Just because YOU believe THEY are. Again though its ok because you are the "right" people saying it to the "wrong" people.

I'm not trying to decide someone's legal identity for them.

And actually Drauz, the concept of civil society and legal rights means no one has to earn your respect to live their lives freely.

You actually do have to give it though. It's not your right to dispense with basic human dignity.

So continue with the growing up and learning to be an adult.

[drauz]

I'm not trying to decide someone's legal identity for them.

And actually Drauz, the concept of civil society and legal rights means no one has to earn your respect to live their lives freely.

You actually do have to give it though. It's not your right to dispense with basic human dignity.

So continue with the growing up and learning to be an adult.

What does this have to do with living their lives freely? Who is stopping them from doing something other than changing their birth certificate? No one is stopping them from becoming the gender they want, they are just saying that you can't change your birth certificate to whatever you want. This isn't facebook, the government doesn't recognize 52 genders.

This will probably get thrown out at some point. When that happens what will they be unable to do that they could before?

If you really want to get into this side of it, ok.

No, you don't have to give anyone any sort of dignity. If someone says "good morning" I am more than able to tell them to "fuck off". Do I do this? No. So it is well within my rights to dispense with human dignity.

Perhaps you should grow up a bit and move into the real world where everything isn't sunshine and rainbows no matter how much you might identify it as such.

[RichardCranium]

I'm not trying to decide someone's legal identity for them.

And actually Drauz, the concept of civil society and legal rights means no one has to earn your respect to live their lives freely.

You actually do have to give it though. It's not your right to dispense with basic human dignity.

So continue with the growing up and learning to be an adult.

Actually, you have that backwards. You seem to think that you have the right to not be offended, which just isn't true. Sure, in a perfect world everyone would treat people as they would want to be treated. I try my best to live this way. But some people are offensive dickheads. This means that YOU have to grow up, get over it, and move on.

[Gelston]

No, you don't have to give anyone any sort of dignity. If someone says "good morning" I am more than able to tell them to "fuck off". Do I do this? No. So it is well within my rights to dispense with human dignity.

If it is a woman, you can be arrested for swearing infront of a lady in Louisiana.

[drauz]

If it is a woman, you can be arrested for swearing infront of a lady in Louisiana.

I think you know what I meant.

[Gelston]

I think you know what I meant.

I know what you meant and I think that law is also a gross violation of the 1st Amendment, yet someone was recently arrested for it.

[Whirlin]

Gender is a social construct.
Sex is the biological male/female.

If a birth certificate has a "gender" designation on it, the form is erroneous, and should be updated to reflect sex. The terms have historically been colloquially used interchangeably, and it may be a matter of lingual evolution and antiquated forms.

If birth certificates have a precedent of being changed due to name changes, then there would be justification to reissue a birth certificate in the event of a sex change. Based on the earlier posts, this seems subjective based on state laws.

[Gelston]

Gender is a social construct.
Sex is the biological male/female.

If a birth certificate has a "gender" designation on it, the form is erroneous, and should be updated to reflect sex. The terms have historically been colloquially used interchangeably, and it may be a matter of lingual evolution and antiquated forms.

If birth certificates have a precedent of being changed due to name changes, then there would be justification to reissue a birth certificate in the event of a sex change. Based on the earlier posts, this seems subjective based on state laws.

Just looked up the Idaho Birth Cert, it says Sex. So does Hawaii's, which is where she was born.

[time4flares]

I agree with Whirlin on this, he put it so clearly.

[Gelston]

wtf, is MacGyver spoofing other PC posters now?

[Whirlin]

Just looked up the Idaho Birth Cert, it says Sex.
Well, then my other point applies, if Idaho said it is alright to retcon birth certificates for name updates, I don't see why they shouldn't allow retconning for sex updates. Clearly they're not interested in a birth certificate being a point in time assessment of the event, but a living, breathing, updatable document. It's a pretty binary stance, either it's allowed to be updated, or not.

I agree it doesn't make sense to use a historically point in time document as an updatable living document, however, the US has a history of not wanting to have too many official documents. That's why there was never any nationalized ID laws passed... unfortunately out of necessity, Social Security basically filled that role, without having the oversight, protection, and security of a real national ID program.

[Back]

No, you don't have to respect anyone.....

Respect is earned not given freely. Otherwise it loses all meaning.

Do I have to respect someone that thinks they are a wolf-kin, just because they think they are? Do I have to respect someone who believes in Elvis? The answer to both is no.

It is quite hypocritical for you to say this but you have no problem labeling someone as a racist, fascist, etc. Just because YOU believe THEY are. Again though its ok because you are the "right" people saying it to the "wrong" people.

So you don't respect someone until they prove they are worthy to you? Wow, that's fucked up. Who are you, Mr. Beyond Reproach?

[Gelston]

Well, then my other point applies, if Idaho said it is alright to retcon birth certificates for name updates, I don't see why they shouldn't allow retconning for sex updates. Clearly they're not interested in a birth certificate being a point in time assessment of the event, but a living, breathing, updatable document. It's a pretty binary stance, either it's allowed to be updated, or not.

I agree it doesn't make sense to use a historically point in time document as an updatable living document, however, the US has a history of not wanting to have too many official documents. That's why there was never any nationalized ID laws passed... unfortunately out of necessity, Social Security basically filled that role, without having the oversight, protection, and security of a real national ID program.

Who says they do? From what I've seen, states are very, very hesitant to change names on Birth Certs, even after a legal name change. Names and Biological Sexes, however, are completely different things. You can be born without a name and get that later, but you will always be born with a sex.

[Gayston]

Who says they do? From what I've seen, states are very, very hesitant to change names on Birth Certs, even after a legal name change. Names and Biological Sexes, however, are completely different things. You can be born without a name and get that later, but you will always be born with a sex.

Taxes, social security benefits, and medicare triggering also play a big factor in why the government doesn't like to mess with BCs.

[drauz]

Well, then my other point applies, if Idaho said it is alright to retcon birth certificates for name updates, I don't see why they shouldn't allow retconning for sex updates. Clearly they're not interested in a birth certificate being a point in time assessment of the event, but a living, breathing, updatable document. It's a pretty binary stance, either it's allowed to be updated, or not.

I agree it doesn't make sense to use a historically point in time document as an updatable living document, however, the US has a history of not wanting to have too many official documents. That's why there was never any nationalized ID laws passed... unfortunately out of necessity, Social Security basically filled that role, without having the oversight, protection, and security of a real national ID program.

Hmm, thats interesting. I hadn't thought of that. I assumed a birth certificate couldn't be changed but you just got addition documents to show a name change. I believe I would change my stance if that state allows the birth certificate to be changed. I looked up my state and they allow sex and name change to your birth certificate.

[Gelston]

Hmm, thats interesting. I hadn't thought of that. I assumed a birth certificate couldn't be changed but you just got addition documents to show a name change. I believe I would change my stance if that state allows the birth certificate to be changed. I looked up my state and they allow sex and name change to your birth certificate.

Virginia does? So it does. Requires you to be post op though, doesn't say 100% if this person is or not. I'd say if states are allowing sex changes to go on BCs, the operation should be a requirement.

[Gayston]

Virginia does? So it does. Requires you to be post op though, doesn't say 100% if this person is or not. I'd say if states are allowing sex changes to go on BCs, the operation should be a requirement.

You considering moving to Virginia now?

[drauz]

So you don't respect someone until they prove they are worthy to you? Wow, that's fucked up. Who are you, Mr. Beyond Reproach?

Yes, that is what the word means.... To admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements....

I can be respectful. I believe thats whats confusing you.

[drauz]

Virginia does? So it does. Requires you to be post op though, doesn't say 100% if this person is or not. I'd say if states are allowing sex changes to go on BCs, the operation should be a requirement.

I was surprised myself. I guess republicans can be progressive.

[Androidpk]

Why is the right so preoccupied with transgender issues?

Cause it's such a scary fucking topic for them.

[Androidpk]

Here's a concept for you:. YOU don't get to decide what's on SOMEONE ELSE'S birth certificate.

YOU don't get to decide SOMEONE ELSE'S gender.

YOU don't get to decide SOMEONE ELSE'S name.

YOU have to respect SOMEONE ELSE'S identity. Just as you expect them to do for you.

You were doing good until that last point.

[Neveragain]

Here's a concept for you:. YOU don't get to decide what's on SOMEONE ELSE'S birth certificate.

YOU don't get to decide SOMEONE ELSE'S gender.

YOU don't get to decide SOMEONE ELSE'S name.

YOU have to respect SOMEONE ELSE'S identity. Just as you expect them to do for you.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: grow up.

Just when you thought it was safe to go outside Time4fantasies asks us to hold her wine cooler.

[Neveragain]

So you don't respect someone until they prove they are worthy to you? Wow, that's fucked up. Who are you, Mr. Beyond Reproach?

Queue public shaming because you don't agree with Back's fantasy.

[Parkbandit]

Believe it or not there are differences between men and women.

SEXISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Warriorbird]

No, you don't have to respect anyone.....

Respect is earned not given freely. Otherwise it loses all meaning.

Do I have to respect someone that thinks they are a wolf-kin, just because they think they are? Do I have to respect someone who believes in Elvis? The answer to both is no.

It is quite hypocritical for you to say this but you have no problem labeling someone as a racist, fascist, etc. Just because YOU believe THEY are. Again though its ok because you are the "right" people saying it to the "wrong" people.

"Racism isn't real!" is about as nonsensical as calling yourself a wolfkin.

[Gelston]

"Racism isn't real!" is about as nonsensical as calling yourself a wolfkin.

He never said that anywhere in there.

[Warriorbird]

He never said that anywhere in there.

He suggested you couldn't label anybody anything. It's postmodern nonsense... the very sort of thing that people complain about portions of the left doing.

[Gelston]

He suggested you couldn't label anybody anything. It's postmodern nonsense... the very sort of thing that people complain about portions of the left doing.

No he didn't. He called her hypocritical because she freely calls people racist, fascist, sexist, etc, as do a lot of liberals when she is also saying you HAVE to respect someone else's identity. No where did he say racism doesn't exist. He is talking purely about the labeling of someone as a racist.

[Warriorbird]

No he didn't. He called her hypocritical because she freely calls people racist, fascist, sexist, etc, as do a lot of liberals when she is also saying you HAVE to respect someone else's identity. No where did he say racism doesn't exist. He is talking purely about the labeling of someone as a racist.

This comes across like wanting not respecting somebody's identity to be a protected class.

[Gelston]

This comes across like wanting not respecting somebody's identity to be a protected class.

No.

[Warriorbird]

No.

That isn't what's being sought by conservatives all over the place?

[Gelston]

That isn't what's being sought by conservatives all over the place?

You are really firing all over the place. The guy didn't say "Racism isn't real" in his post.

[Warriorbird]

You are really firing all over the place. The guy didn't say "Racism isn't real" in his post.

You don't like Vishra. That's fine.The way you've explained Drauz's viewpoint you've appointed people that base their identities around hating people as the only ones who can call anybody racist.

If she isn't ever allowed to call anybody racist... racism has been declared not real.

People that base their identities on hating people are now the only ones that can declare anything racist. They're thus the protected class.

Added note:

This conversation is going on nationally because of the Republican efforts in North Carolina to find another wedge issue.

[Gelston]

You don't like Vishra. That's fine.The way you've explained Drauz's viewpoint you've appointed people that base their identities around hating people as the only ones who can call anybody racist.

If she isn't ever allowed to call anybody racist... racism has been declared not real.

People that base their identities on hating people are now the only ones that can declare anything racist. They're thus the protected class.

Added note:

This conversation is going on nationally because of the Republican efforts in North Carolina to find another wedge issue.

Drauz didn't say Racism isn't real in his post.

[drauz]

You don't like Vishra. That's fine.The way you've explained Drauz's viewpoint you've appointed people that base their identities around hating people as the only ones who can call anybody racist.

If she isn't ever allowed to call anybody racist... racism has been declared not real.

People that base their identities on hating people are now the only ones that can declare anything racist. They're thus the protected class.

Added note:

This conversation is going on nationally because of the Republican efforts in North Carolina to find another wedge issue.

You missed the point of my message. It was practice what you preach. Don't tell me I have to respect everyone while you certainly aren't.

I have a strong feeling it is because she believes she is the "right" people scolding the "wrong" people.

[Candor]

YOU have to respect SOMEONE ELSE'S identity.

If you mean I shouldn't bully or harass others, of course.

If you mean I have to actually respect how others identify themselves no matter what...read my lips...no. Scream and yell and type in caps and stomp your feet all you want, but it's not going to happen.

[Neveragain]

You don't like Vishra. That's fine.The way you've explained Drauz's viewpoint you've appointed people that base their identities around hating people as the only ones who can call anybody racist.

If she isn't ever allowed to call anybody racist... racism has been declared not real.

People that base their identities on hating people are now the only ones that can declare anything racist. They're thus the protected class.

Added note:

This conversation is going on nationally because of the Republican efforts in North Carolina to find another wedge issue.

Well, Vishra probably wouldn't be to bad if it were not for her fabrications

If people label everyone that simply disagrees with them a racist....the word completely loses it's meaning. ~ I give you the past 8 years.

"People that base their identities on hating people are now the only ones that can declare anything racist. They're thus the protected class." Are you referring to BLM, ANTIFA or your average Berkeley professor/student?


This conversation is going on nationally because the Democrats still don't have a palatable policy so they are playing the race card, AGAIN. ~fixed

[ClydeR]

Isn't the purpose of the birth certificate to document a birth? If so, the birth certificate should show the gender at birth to record an historical fact.

[Gelston]

Isn't the purpose of the birth certificate to document a birth? If so, the birth certificate should show the gender at birth to record an historical fact.

Nope, we're done here. Some states allow you to change it, they should here too.

[Savageheart]

States allow you to change it for the purposes of gender reassignment - in fact that was the hinge on some Republican measures which were more moderate.

It amounts to a legal hurdle that would require some sort of 'proof of commitment' to reassignment. There were at some point even questions as to at which point of 'reassignment' people were that it should count. Still there is a problem that it is not uniform in all states though.

I personally see no issue with changing your legal gender status in the face of reassignment it does seem somewhat cynical and arbitrary but at least it's a legal status change.

I don't think it should be more difficult than changing your address but how do you identify the qualifications? That's certainly going to chap some already chapped asses