Church Can Start Its Own Police Force, Alabama Senate Says

[drauz]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/04/12/523603112/alabama-senate-says-church-can-start-its-own-police-force


A large church in Alabama is one step closer to creating its own police force, a move that seems to be without precedent in the U.S. The state's Senate has approved legislation that would give church police officers the same powers other law enforcement officers have in Alabama.

After being approved by Alabama's Senate on a 24-4 vote, the bill now heads to the state House of Representatives, where an identical bill was sent to the Public Safety and Homeland Security committee in February.

Both chambers' legislation specifically names Briarwood Presbyterian Church, a Birmingham megachurch that "says it needs its own police officers to keep its school as well as its more than 4,000 person congregation safe," Alabama Public Radio reports.


I don't see how this could go wrong at all.

[Fallen]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i162/ShadowbladerXT/1UP/iscariotsoldiers.jpg

[Nathala Crane]

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7sXLalTA0KM/WH2A_gGlYkI/AAAAAAAADdM/vBuPiXeAr7A4jzCYHOhqvnm00UCO9gBygCEw/s1600/1.8.jpg

[Gelston]

The Catholic Church has its own standing army.

[tyrant-201]

The Catholic Church has its own standing army.

The Vatican is also recognized as its own state.

[Taernath]

http://carboncostume.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/faithmilitantsparrows.jpg

[Gelston]

Curious as to the differences between armed security and their own certified police force would actually be... I mean, I suppose court enforceable citations and fines.. One plus is that they'll have a certain standard of training as opposed to armed security, that can vary wildly.

[drauz]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i162/ShadowbladerXT/1UP/iscariotsoldiers.jpg

Love me some Hellsing.

[Tgo01]

I imagine it's because a security force is mostly useless. Many security officers are merely a watch and document type of job, they are there just to gather information to give to the police.

Even bouncers are often sued if they physically "escort" someone off the property.

[Gelston]

I imagine it's because a security force is mostly useless. Many security officers are merely a watch and document type of job, they are there just to gather information to give to the police.

Even bouncers are often sued if they physically "escort" someone off the property.

There is a difference between armed security and regular observe and report security.

[Gelston]

Looked up Alabama citizen's arrest laws, and they are pretty broad.... So arrest isn't an issue here.

[drauz]

I haven't read the bill but it sounds like this could apply to any church...

I don't think they thought this through... Are they going to allow Mosques to have their own police force?

[Taernath]

I haven't read the bill but it sounds like this could apply to any church...

I don't think they thought this through... Are they going to allow Mosques to have their own police force?

It's like two pages long and is very vague. I'm sure it could be argued for a mosque or whatever else.

[Gelston]

I haven't read the bill but it sounds like this could apply to any church...

I don't think they thought this through... Are they going to allow Mosques to have their own police force?

It is specifically for that church. Not vague at all.

SYNOPSIS: This bill would authorize Briarwood
9 Presbyterian Church, organized as a nonprofit
10 church under Alabama's nonprofit corporation law,
11 to employ police officers under certain conditions.

It is to allow the church to hire state certified Police Officers that have all rights of a Police Officer with their jurisdiction being specifically the Church's property. I see a separation of Church and State issue here, however, if they are employed by the Church but have the force of the State Courts systems.

[Taernath]

It is specifically for that church. Not vague at all.

SYNOPSIS: This bill would authorize Briarwood
9 Presbyterian Church, organized as a nonprofit
10 church under Alabama's nonprofit corporation law,
11 to employ police officers under certain conditions.

It is to allow the church to hire state certified Police Officers that have all rights of a Police Officer with their jurisdiction being specifically the Church's property.

Cut and paste a different name in there and it applies to that new organization as well. Magic, I know.

[Tgo01]

Looked up Alabama citizen's arrest laws, and they are pretty broad.... So arrest isn't an issue here.

Citizen's arrest usually means the person had to have witnessed the crime or deals with felonies. Police officers have a little bit more leeway in terms of arresting people.

I imagine this probably has a lot to do with trespassing. Security could escort someone off the property but typically people tend to call the police who can threaten the person with an arrest if they do not leave the property, whereas someone physically removing someone from their own property can run into lawsuits if shit goes bad.


I don't think they thought this through... Are they going to allow Mosques to have their own police force?

It does sound kind of strange to allow a church to operate their own police force, I mean why wouldn't they just make a deal with the local police force to pay them money to have an officer or two stationed at their church? Don't local malls do something similar to that?

Although I wouldn't have a problem with Mosques having their own police force if they allow churches the same.

[Gelston]

Citizen's arrest usually means the person had to have witnessed the crime or deals with felonies. Police officers have a little bit more leeway in terms of arresting people.

I imagine this probably has a lot to do with trespassing. Security could escort someone off the property but typically people tend to call the police who can threaten the person with an arrest if they do not leave the property, whereas someone physically removing someone from their own property can run into lawsuits if shit goes bad.


They are allowed to arrest for trespassing and call the police. I doubt the church is going to have its own jail, so it wouldn't be much different from what they'd probably do with arrests made with a real police officer. As far as liability, the Church runs the Security or the Police Department, so they are liable either way. Police Departments get sued all the time.

[drauz]

Citizen's arrest usually means the person had to have witnessed the crime or deals with felonies. Police officers have a little bit more leeway in terms of arresting people.

I imagine this probably has a lot to do with trespassing. Security could escort someone off the property but typically people tend to call the police who can threaten the person with an arrest if they do not leave the property, whereas someone physically removing someone from their own property can run into lawsuits if shit goes bad.



It does sound kind of strange to allow a church to operate their own police force, I mean why wouldn't they just make a deal with the local police force to pay them money to have an officer or two stationed at their church? Don't local malls do something similar to that?

Although I wouldn't have a problem with Mosques having their own police force if they allow churches the same.

Ideally I wouldn't want any religious organization to have any sort of authority.

[Gelston]

Ideally I wouldn't want any religious organization to have any sort of authority.

Only Temporal Authority. :D

But yeah, I think it is dumb. The Church should lobby to have police stationed there rather than make their own department, because 4,000 people in one area is still a lot of people in one area. Kinda their job. I think they just want to be cheap about it.

[drauz]

It's like two pages long and is very vague. I'm sure it could be argued for a mosque or whatever else.

Were you able to find it? I'm having trouble locating the actual bill.

[Gelston]

Were you able to find it? I'm having trouble locating the actual bill.

There is a link in the page you linked, haha...

https://legiscan.com/AL/text/SB193/id/1522071

[Candor]

LDS has security at their temples, especially at the main temple in Salt Lake City. I don't think they are armed though.

But a church police force? Someone has gone off the deep end here.

[Gelston]

LDS has security at their temples, especially at the main temple in Salt Lake City. I don't think they are armed though.

LDS basically owns a few police departments.

[drauz]

There is a link in the page you linked, haha...

https://legiscan.com/AL/text/SB193/id/1522071

I must have missed it, thanks.

[Parkbandit]

The Vatican is also recognized as its own state.

So is Alabama.....

[drauz]

So is Alabama.....

He means country.

[Nathala Crane]

Well, if Church's can have their own police force, I'm fine with Popeye's and KFC having the same.

[Parkbandit]

He means country.

I should have put it in italics. I thought the 5 periods gave it away, but I guess not :(

[Tgo01]

Now I'm really curious. Those malls that have a mini police station inside of it; are the cops employed by the mall or the city? Just curious if this is the first time a non government entity was able to have its own police force and if so why are they making a special case here? Just sounds odd.

[Tgo01]

Now I'm really curious. Those malls that have a mini police station inside of it; are the cops employed by the mall or the city? Just curious if this is the first time a non government entity was able to have its own police force and if so why are they making a special case here? Just sounds odd.

Well shit, apparently this isn't so unheard of after all:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_police


These can be firms to which the government contracts out police work (e.g. the 1975–1977 Oro Valley, Arizona-Rural/Metro contract, the 1980 Reminderville, Ohio-Corporate Security contract, the 1976 Indian Springs, Florida-Guardsmark contract, and the 1976 Buffalo Creek, West Virginia-Guardsmark contract), or they can be officers who contract with various firms to patrol the area, as in the case of the San Francisco Patrol Specials.


A specific type of private police is company police, such as the specialized railroad police or mall security. In some cases, private police are sworn in as government employees in order to ensure compliance with the law, as in the Kalamazoo, Michigan-Charles Services contract, which lasted 3½ years. Private police services are sometimes called "Subscription-Based Patrol."


In North Carolina, private police are certified company police agencies governed by the North Carolina Department of Justice chapter 74E of the Company Police Act. Under 74E Company Police in North Carolina can, and do make arrests, and write citations for violations of the law the same as any municipal police officer. Company Police jurisdiction is on any real property that they own, possess and control, or have been contracted to protect by the owner or person in control, unless they are in continuous pursuit for a crime that was committed in their jurisdiction or investigating a crime that occurred in their jurisdiction. Private police in North Carolina must meet or exceed all training and certification requirements as any municipal, county or state law enforcement officer.


The largest private police forces in the United States are the railroad police employed by the major Class I railroads.

In South Carolina, all Security Officers have the authority and power to make an arrest just as Sheriff's Deputies do (although this is unique for the USA).[10] In (Spring Valley HOA) Columbia, South Carolina, Private Officers respond to calls for service, run traffic radar, make arrests and use blue lights.[11] Security Officers in South Carolina are Law Enforcement under state law, case law and the Attorney General’s opinions, and are authorized by the state to issue Uniform Traffic Tickets to violators and make arrests for violations of state laws.[12] Security Officers are considered Private Law Enforcement Officers.[13]

In Boston, Massachusetts, more than 100 housing projects and low-income apartment buildings are some times patrolled by private security. A few of these companies employ Special Police Officers that are licensed and trained through the City of Boston. These Special Police officers do meet the states standard of a special police officer. These Special Police Officers in Boston get their power from BPD rule 400.

I guess this really isn't that big of a deal then, I don't think just because it's a church it makes things suddenly not okay. I was just under the impression they were making an exception for them because they are a church.

[drauz]

Well shit, apparently this isn't so unheard of after all:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_police









I guess this really isn't that big of a deal then, I don't think just because it's a church it makes things suddenly not okay. I was just under the impression they were making an exception for them because they are a church.

There was a movie with Christian Slater about private police from the 90s. You just reminded me of it.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTg1NTE0OTE4MV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzU4NDYxMQ@@._ V1_UY1200_CR107,0,630,1200_AL_.jpg

[Tgo01]

There was a movie with Christian Slater about private police from the 90s. You just reminded me of it.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTg1NTE0OTE4MV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzU4NDYxMQ@@._ V1_UY1200_CR107,0,630,1200_AL_.jpg

I think Slater is a CIA officer now.

[drauz]

I should have put it in italics. I thought the 5 periods gave it away, but I guess not :(

http://i.imgur.com/FmYjcHV.gif

[drauz]

I think Slater is a CIA officer now.

Yup, he works with Sterling Archer.

[drauz]

Well shit, apparently this isn't so unheard of after all:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_police









I guess this really isn't that big of a deal then, I don't think just because it's a church it makes things suddenly not okay. I was just under the impression they were making an exception for them because they are a church.

I think the difference is if they answer to the county or if they are independant. Those contracts that you cited answered directly to the county.

[Tisket]

Well, my plan to get ordained via the Internet just gained some urgency. I've always wanted my own army.

[Taernath]

Well, my plan to get ordained via the Internet just gained some urgency. I've always wanted my own army.

Would you describe your religion as more of a death cult or a sex cult?

[SHAFT]

Would you describe your religion as more of a death cult or a sex cult?

Death-by-sex cult.

[drauz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcSLtq1weH4

[~Rocktar~]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcSLtq1weH4

I LOL'ed

[Tisket]

You guys complete me.

[kutter]

I am curious why anyone would have an issue with this but are perfectly comfortable with a University having a police force. Both are, for the most part, non-profits with their own ideological ideals, just one is a religion and the other does not want to admit it is a religion, well maybe cult is a better word, indoctrinating the youth of today into their respective mindsets.

[Gelston]

I am curious why anyone would have an issue with this but are perfectly comfortable with a University having a police force. Both are, for the most part, non-profits with their own ideological ideals, just one is a religion and the other does not want to admit it is a religion, well maybe cult is a better word, indoctrinating the youth of today into their respective mindsets.

The only universities here that have full police forces are State owned and the Police work for the State.

[Valthissa]

The only universities here that have full police forces are State owned and the Police work for the State.

Not sure where here is for you

When I read that I thought - I think that is the way it is here in Virginia (but I wasn't sure)

I was just at Notre Dame (second visit to the turbomachinery lab)

they have a very robust looking police force

I clicked through to check them out and it says they are fully authorized as a police agency by the state of Indiana

http://ndsp.nd.edu/about-ndsp/

[Warriorbird]

I think churches and schools are rather different. I'd favor armed security. That's terrifying enough at some of our local churches.

[Tgo01]

I think churches and schools are rather different. I'd favor armed security. That's terrifying enough at some of our local churches.

But why? If their jurisdiction is literally just the church property then it seems rather easy to just avoid the church property if you're afraid they're going to arrest you for being a heretic or whatever.

[Warriorbird]

But why? If their jurisdiction is literally just the church property then it seems rather easy to just avoid the church property if you're afraid they're going to arrest you for being a heretic or whatever.

People have been dragged into some of our churches (and potentially one of our mosques) before.

[Tgo01]

People have been dragged into some of our churches (and potentially one of our mosques) before.

What do you mean by this? Like a hooker is dragged into church against her will to repent and now the police will arrest her?

[Warriorbird]

What do you mean by this? Like a hooker is dragged into church against her will to repent and now the police will arrest her?

One of my friends pretended to go to one of them during high school to attempt to get "close" to a young female congregant. The congregation tends to be quite heavily armed. Another friend and I had to drive there and save him. He later got taken from the town and got the crap kicked out of him in the church itself by various members. I could see that and corrupt cops having gone much worse. I'm sure he could've ended up "charged" with something and only the church members being "witnesses."

Or just picture fundamentalist Mormons, Scientologists, or Christian Identity members with cops in their enclaves. Sure, they might control law enforcement pretty heavily in some of those parts already but I'd rather it not be church based.

Because you'll ignore any suggested problems with the above I'll also point out one of our local mosques has some really troublesome members. This could be an avenue to actual sharia law.

[Velfi]

Because you'll ignore any suggested problems with the above I'll also point out one of our local mosques has some really troublesome members. This could be an avenue to actual sharia law.

Religious freedom and religion in government is under the sole purview of Christianity, thanks.

[Tgo01]

One of my friends pretended to go to one of them during high school to attempt to get "close" to a young female congregant. The congregation tends to be quite heavily armed. Another friend and I had to drive there and save him. He later got taken from the town and got the crap kicked out of him in the church itself by various members.

I feel like you're leaving out a lot of details here. He "pretended" to go to church to get "close" to a woman and you had to "save" him from what exactly? He then later got the shit kicked out of him inside of the church...again, for what?


I could see that and corrupt cops having gone much worse. I'm sure he could've ended up "charged" with something and only the church members being "witnesses."

This could theoretically happen with any police force in the US. They aren't talking about ordaining these police officers and asking them to enforce strict Christian values. Also no one is suggesting the church having the discretion to charge people with a crime, that would still be up to the DA.


Because you'll ignore any suggested problems with the above I'll also point out one of our local mosques has some really troublesome members. This could be an avenue to actual sharia law.

Again no because no one is suggesting giving the church the power to charge people with a crime. Police officers make arrests based on what they observe and it's up to the DA to charge people with a crime, or the police enforce arrest warrants put out by judges.

[Gelston]

Not sure where here is for you

When I read that I thought - I think that is the way it is here in Virginia (but I wasn't sure)

I was just at Notre Dame (second visit to the turbomachinery lab)

they have a very robust looking police force

I clicked through to check them out and it says they are fully authorized as a police agency by the state of Indiana

http://ndsp.nd.edu/about-ndsp/



There is a slight difference between armed security with broad powers and actual police. Centenary here, for example, calls their security police, but their tickets and fines only effect students and staff. If you are neither, they can't force you to pay.

Neat about ND, but you also to have to figure that campus is basically a city.

[Parkbandit]

I think churches and schools are rather different. I'd favor armed security. That's terrifying enough at some of our local churches.

"Terrifying"?

Jesus Fucking Christ....

[Warriorbird]

"Terrifying"?

Jesus Fucking Christ....

You don't typically expect to see a militia surrounding a church, even here. Brings Branch Davidian stuff to mind.

Of course nothing bad ever happens in sheltered Parkbandit land. The non gated communities probably have gates.

[Taernath]

Traditionally the US has had a pretty clear separation of Church and State, so when one of those bodies begins to take on characteristics of the other, people naturally take notice or get worried.

In reality, probably nothing will really happen. The church is a LOT smaller than I imagined so the handful of people they hire will spend about 99% of time sleeping behind a radio.

[Kembal]

I'm confused as to why they need police as opposed to armed security, or why they can't just hire off-duty local cops to handle security at times they would want someone with police powers?

Seems really strange to me.

[Tgo01]

I'm confused as to why they need police as opposed to armed security, or why they can't just hire off-duty local cops to handle security at times they would want someone with police powers?

Seems really strange to me.

As far as not just having armed security I imagine a lot of it has to do with being able to remove offenders promptly. Even if security in the state are allowed to perform a citizen's arrest the most they can do is detain someone until the police arrive. Makes things a lot simpler if the police are already there. Not only that but I'm pretty sure off duty police officers aren't allowed to wear their uniforms while they are working a different job, even as security. Sometimes an obvious police presence helps deter crime, especially in a smallish area such as a mega church. This also goes for police squad cars.

Not to mention a police officer working a different job might not have the same protections as an on duty police officer. Police officers are usually afforded some protections when performing their duties, such as the ability to get someone to comply with their commands if they are resisting arrest. An officer might not have these same protections if they are off duty and working another job while arresting someone, thus they might be held personally liable which means officers might not perform their duties the same as when they are on the clock and are afforded protections.

Also the church might not want officers who are only working for them part time and would rather have full time officers.

I imagine there are a whole list of reasons why a place of business (or worship!) would rather have their own police department instead of just hiring off duty officers.

I thought this was strange too until I looked into it and realized non-governmental officers aren't really a rare thing. I don't think this is a problem simply because this is a church doing it.

[Gelston]

As far as not just having armed security I imagine a lot of it has to do with being able to remove offenders promptly. Even if security in the state are allowed to perform a citizen's arrest the most they can do is detain someone until the police arrive. Makes things a lot simpler if the police are already there. Not only that but I'm pretty sure off duty police officers aren't allowed to wear their uniforms while they are working a different job, even as security. Sometimes an obvious police presence helps deter crime, especially in a smallish area such as a mega church. This also goes for police squad cars.

Not to mention a police officer working a different job might not have the same protections as an on duty police officer. Police officers are usually afforded some protections when performing their duties, such as the ability to get someone to comply with their commands if they are resisting arrest. An officer might not have these same protections if they are off duty and working another job while arresting someone, thus they might be held personally liable which means officers might not perform their duties the same as when they are on the clock and are afforded protections.

Also the church might not want officers who are only working for them part time and would rather have full time officers.

I imagine there are a whole list of reasons why a place of business (or worship!) would rather have their own police department instead of just hiring off duty officers.

I thought this was strange too until I looked into it and realized non-governmental officers aren't really a rare thing. I don't think this is a problem simply because this is a church doing it.

Alabama recently passed an act the covers everything you raised there. There is no need for them to have a full on police department.

[Tgo01]

Alabama recently passed an act the covers everything you raised there. There is no need for them to have a full on police department.

Off duty police officers can drive around in their police cruisers and police uniforms while on the clock for a private company?

[Parkbandit]

You don't typically expect to see a militia surrounding a church, even here. Brings Branch Davidian stuff to mind.

So, in your "mind", it's now a militia, not just a police department.

I think I found the issue.


Of course nothing bad ever happens in sheltered Parkbandit land. The non gated communities probably have gates.

I am in control of my emotions. I don't find something on the Internet that is thousands of miles away from me and think "OMG CLUTCH MY PEARLS, THIS IS TERRIFYING!"

Real life zombies.. terrifying.

Alien space invasion.. terrifying.

A church in Alabama having it's own police department.. much like many Universities in this country.. not terrifying.

Gain some fucking perspective or go see a mental health professional and get on something to make you less of a gigantic pussy.

[Warriorbird]

So, in your "mind", it's now a militia, not just a police department.

I think I found the issue.

I am in control of my emotions. I don't find something on the Internet that is thousands of miles away from me and think "OMG CLUTCH MY PEARLS, THIS IS TERRIFYING!"

Real life zombies.. terrifying.

Alien space invasion.. terrifying.

A church in Alabama having it's own police department.. much like many Universities in this country.. not terrifying.

Gain some fucking perspective or go see a mental health professional and get on something to make you less of a gigantic pussy.

Control of my emotions after how you post? Yeah.

As usual there's a disconnect here. I was referring to the dubiously labelled "private security." that the local "church" (though they call themselves a "mission") has. You somehow transposed that to police for this other church because you don't actually read, just spill bile.

Given the success of this bill, however, I'm sure all sorts of questionable folks can become church police.

[Parkbandit]

Control of my emotions after how you post? Yeah.

As usual there's a disconnect here. I was referring to the dubiously labelled "private security." that the local "church" (though they call themselves a "mission") has. You somehow transposed that to police for this other church because you don't actually read, just spill bile.

Given the success of this bill, however, I'm sure all sorts of questionable folks can become church police.

There is a gigantic difference between "private security" and militia... far, far less than the difference between "private security" and "police department".

Also, my post was in response to your use of the word "terrifying"... because I wanted you to come out from under the bed and discuss it.

Poor thing... so scared.

Don't you work at a University? Doesn't it have it's own "militia"?

Why is it you are so frightened of this "militia" if it's for a church?

Tell us where the priest touched you... you're going to be ok, we will keep you safe.

[Gelston]

Off duty police officers can drive around in their police cruisers and police uniforms while on the clock for a private company?

That is pretty common with police departments that have take home cruisers. Crime prevention is crime prevention regardless.

[Warriorbird]

There is a gigantic difference between "private security" and militia... far, far less than the difference between "private security" and "police department".

Also, my post was in response to your use of the word "terrifying"... because I wanted you to come out from under the bed and discuss it.

Poor thing... so scared.

Don't you work at a University? Doesn't it have it's own "militia"?

Why is it you are so frightened of this "militia" if it's for a church?

Tell us where the priest touched you... you're going to be ok, we will keep you safe.

You should control your emotions when you post. It seems to make you confused in addition to how it makes you appear.

Militia members are signed up as "private security" at the local church I mentioned.

I work at a public high school. There is a single resource officer. Schools are a far different institution than churches.

[Parkbandit]

You should control your emotions when you post.

Wait.. weren't you the one that was "terrified"? Because I was making fun of you doesn't mean I wasn't in complete control of my emotions.


It seems to make you confused in addition to how it makes you appear.

Irony at it's finest.


Militia members are signed up as "private security" at the local church I mentioned.

And that "terrifies" you?


I work at a public high school.

That makes more sense.


There is a single resource officer. Schools are a far different institution than churches.

So, are there not police departments at many universities around the county? I don't remember you being "terrified" at the thought of that.

Then again, it's probably easier to just remember things that don't "terrify" you.

Now crawl back under your bed... it's "terrifying" out here.

[Warriorbird]

Wait.. weren't you the one that was "terrified"? Because I was making fun of you doesn't mean I wasn't in complete control of my emotions.
Irony at it's finest.
And that "terrifies" you?
That makes more sense.
So, are there not police departments at many universities around the county? I don't remember you being "terrified" at the thought of that.
Then again, it's probably easier to just remember things that don't "terrify" you.
Now crawl back under your bed... it's "terrifying" out here.

You're unable to avoid coming off the way you do. You're not in control of your emotions.

I understand you're sheltered. A bunch of disturbing individuals with guns isn't frightening to you.

If you can't understand the difference between churches and schools it explains a lot about you.

[Parkbandit]

You're unable to avoid coming off the way you do. You're not in control of your emotions.

Says the guy who's "terrified" about a Church 1000 miles away from him.


I understand you're sheltered. A bunch of disturbing individuals with guns isn't frightening to you.

So now they are "disturbing"? No, it's not "frightening" to me because I'm not making them into something they aren't so I can try and explain why I am so utterly "terrified".


If you can't understand the difference between churches and schools it explains a lot about you.

Please explain all the differences between a church police force and a university police force.

Be specific. Don't do your typical distract or diversion... just post the specific differences between a church police force and university police force that makes the church police force "terrifying" to you.

[Androidpk]

Says the guy who's "terrified" about a Church 1000 miles away from him.



So now they are "disturbing"? No, it's not "frightening" to me because I'm not making them into something they aren't so I can try and explain why I am so utterly "terrified".



Please explain all the differences between a church police force and a university police force.

Be specific.

How dare you question a public high school teacher!

[Parkbandit]

How dare you question a terrified public high school teacher!

Corrected for accuracy.

At least we know the core problem with our public school system.

[Nieninque]

Militarised god botherers. Sounds like a plan.

[Warriorbird]

Says the guy who's "terrified" about a Church 1000 miles away from him.

So now they are "disturbing"? No, it's not "frightening" to me because I'm not making them into something they aren't so I can try and explain why I am so utterly "terrified".

Please explain all the differences between a church police force and a university police force.

Be specific. Don't do your typical distract or diversion... just post the specific differences between a church police force and university police force that makes the church police force "terrifying" to you.

Because you don't actually read, merely get upset... this was in regards to a church near where I grew up... not actually the other of the odd conclusions you developed.

Schools typically function in the public interest. Churches are not required to. The job of a school is to house/educate a number of students where the job of a church is not to.

Your turn. Why exactly do these churches need police rather than armed security?

I'm sure in your sheltered world it is impossible that some people will seek to break down the barriers between church and state... not in mine. Liberty University is right down the road from me.


How dare you question a public high school teacher!

Obviously you could be somebody who's known for leeching off women and then insulting them and robbing the accounts of his exes instead... and is unwilling to reveal what he actually does now.


Militarized god botherers. Sounds like a plan.

Obviously nothing to worry about! Really!

[Parkbandit]

Because you don't actually read, merely get upset... this was in regards to a church near where I grew up... not actually the other of the odd conclusions you developed.

Schools typically function in the public interest. Churches are not required to. The job of a school is to house/educate a number of students where the job of a church is not to.

Irony.

That wasn't my question... here it is again, have an adult help you with the big words:

Post the specific differences between a church police force and university police force that makes the church police force "terrifying" to you.




Your turn. Why exactly do these churches need police rather than armed security?

You first. This time try and actually answer the question.


I'm sure in your sheltered world it is impossible that some people will seek to break down the barriers between church and state... not in mine. Liberty University is right down the road from me.

I must lead a very sheltered life.. since I rarely get "upset" and "terrified" as you say you get.


Obviously nothing to worry about! Really!

And "worried"........

[Tgo01]

Schools typically function in the public interest. Churches are not required to. The job of a school is to house/educate a number of students where the job of a church is not to.

Who gives a shit? You're not stating why a church police force, whose jurisdiction is literally the church property, is such a scary prospect. I might actually agree with you if these cops were allowed to patrol the entire city.


Your turn. Why exactly do these churches need police rather than armed security?

It's probably a matter of "want", not "need." Just like women don't "need" to get their birth control from their religious bosses but Democrats want to shove their ideals down their throats anyways. Or how a gay couple doesn't "need" to get a cake from one particular bakery but the Democrats want to force that company to go out of business if they don't.

[Warriorbird]

Who gives a shit? You're not stating why a church police force, whose jurisdiction is literally the church property, is such a scary prospect. I might actually agree with you if these cops were allowed to patrol the entire city.



It's probably a matter of "want", not "need." Just like women don't "need" to get their birth control from their religious bosses but Democrats want to shove their ideals down their throats anyways. Or how a gay couple doesn't "need" to get a cake from one particular bakery but the Democrats want to force that company to go out of business if they don't.

So they're basically doing stuff that you would complain about other people doing. Got it.

For me there's a First Amendment distinction but you, like certain other atheists, only value certain portions of the First Amendment because your party tells you to. You like ending portions of the Constitution because it bothers Democrats too.

[Androidpk]

and is unwilling to reveal what he actually does now.


I thought you already knew.

[Warriorbird]

I thought you already knew.

Note my phrasing.

[Androidpk]

I did note it. I don't get what you're getting at.

[Tgo01]

So they're basically doing stuff that you would complain about other people doing. Got it.

Where the hell did you pull this shit from? I even said earlier I wouldn't even mind if a Mosque did this. Even though I'm totally an Islamophobe and think all Muslims are terrorists?!?!?!?!?


For me there's a First Amendment distinction

Sure. Where in the constitution does it state a church may not hire private police officers like other businesses can? I'll wait while you cite the exact passage and phrasing.

[Parkbandit]

Be specific. Don't do your typical distract or diversion... just post the specific differences between a church police force and university police force that makes the church police force "terrifying" to you.

STILL waiting.

[Warriorbird]

Where the hell did you pull this shit from? I even said earlier I wouldn't even mind if a Mosque did this. Even though I'm totally an Islamophobe and think all Muslims are terrorists?!?!?!?!?



Sure. Where in the constitution does it state a church may not hire private police officers like other businesses can? I'll wait while you cite the exact passage and phrasing.

That you did! And it's commendable. But you sure whined about the stuff you cited.

A Constitutional lawyer could argue that church police might be a functional violation of the establishment clause... which you choose not to interpret broadly solely because you like to whine about/try to troll Democrats.


STILL waiting.

Like a SJW hashtag. Poor thing. Use less emotion when you post.

[Tgo01]

But you sure whined about the stuff you cited.

I did? Are you drunk off your family's wine?


A Constitutional lawyer could argue that church police might be a functional violation of the establishment clause... which you choose not to interpret broadly solely because you like to whine about/try to troll Democrats.

I "choose" not to interpret it broadly because it's very specific in nature. I would be totally against a private prosecutor/DA at all. I'd even go so far as to grant you that I would be ESPECIALLY against a private prosecutor/DA that was employed by a church/Mosque/whathaveyou.

But a police force? Especially one whose jurisdiction is private property? I just don't see the big deal.

[Parkbandit]

Like a SJW hashtag. Poor thing. Use less emotion when you post.

So, you were unable to actually answer the question.. just distraction and diversion. Not a big surprise.

[Warriorbird]

So, you were unable to actually answer the question.. just distraction and diversion. Not a big surprise.

I answered it. Given the number of oddly surprising errors and incorrect conclusions it is clear you either can't or choose not to read or comprehend most of my posts.


I "choose" not to interpret it broadly because it's very specific in nature. I would be totally against a private prosecutor/DA at all. I'd even go so far as to grant you that I would be ESPECIALLY against a private prosecutor/DA that was employed by a church/Mosque/whathaveyou.

But a police force? Especially one whose jurisdiction is private property? I just don't see the big deal.

Fair enough. If you wanted private prosecutors and DAs what would your first step be?

[Parkbandit]

I answered it. Given the number of oddly surprising errors and incorrect conclusions it is clear you either can't or choose not to read or comprehend most of my posts.

JUST so we're both on the same page... let's review:

Here is my question:


Be specific. Don't do your typical distract or diversion... just post the specific differences between a church police force and university police force that makes the church police force "terrifying" to you.

And this is the answer to that question?


Schools typically function in the public interest. Churches are not required to. The job of a school is to house/educate a number of students where the job of a church is not to.

So, the part that is "terrifying" to you is that churches are not required to function in the public interest and the job of a church is not to house/educate a number of students?

Really?

Please tell me there is more to it that "terrifies" you.