Pence Used Private E-mail While In Office...And Was Hacked

[time4fun]

Breaking news: (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/02/mike-pence-private-email/98637782/)


Emails released to The Indianapolis Star in response to a public records request show Pence communicated via his personal AOL account with top advisers on topics ranging from security gates at the governor’s residence to the state’s response to terror attacks across the globe. In one email, Pence’s top state homeland security adviser relayed an update from the FBI regarding the arrests of several men on federal terror-related charges.



Cybersecurity experts say Pence’s emails were likely just as insecure as Clinton’s. While there has been speculation about whether Clinton's emails were hacked, Pence’s account was actually compromised last summer by a scammer who sent an email to his contacts claiming Pence and his wife were stranded in the Philippines and in urgent need of money.

I look forward to the collective silence from the GOP on the issue.

[drauz]

Breaking news: (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/02/mike-pence-private-email/98637782/)






I look forward to the collective silence from the GOP on the issue.

Were they classified?

[Tgo01]

Breaking news: (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/02/mike-pence-private-email/98637782/)

I look forward to the collective silence from the GOP on the issue.

He shouldn't have used a private AOL account.

Still waiting for you to admit that Hillary was wrong and never should have even been the candidate for the Democrat party. But we all know what a hypocrite you are so I won't be holding my breath.

But I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that you think the governor of Indiana deals with more sensitive material than the secretary of state and thus should be held to a higher standard. Am I close?

[BigWorm]

Were they classified?

probably need a few congressional select committees to find out. they take email security very seriously

[Androidpk]

Breaking news: (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/02/mike-pence-private-email/98637782/)






I look forward to the collective silence from the GOP on the issue.

I look forward to the collective outrage from the Dems who were silent on the Hillary emailgate issue.

[Parkbandit]

Breaking news: (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/02/mike-pence-private-email/98637782/)

I look forward to the collective silence from the GOP on the issue.

STILL not as bad as what your gal Hillary did.

If Pence broke any laws pertaining to this, he should be charged as soon as Hillary is.

[drauz]

STILL not as bad as what your gal Hillary did.

If Pence broke any laws pertaining to this, he should be charged as soon as Hillary is.

I think he should be charged if laws were broken regardless if Clinton is charged.

It would be a real boon for Republicans if they did. They could take some of the fire away from this Russia stuff.

[Tgo01]

I think he should be charged if laws were broken regardless if Clinton is charged.

From what I've read nothing Pence did in regards to this email was illegal. But SCANDAL! Russia! Literally Hitler!

[time4fun]

I think he should be charged if laws were broken regardless if Clinton is charged.

It would be a real boon for Republicans if they did. They could take some of the fire away from this Russia stuff.

"Russian stuff". You really should take all of this a bit more seriously. There are several active investigations that have been going on, several disturbing lies by Trump over his campaign's connections and contacts with Russia, and- oh yeah- an election that was tampered with by Russia.


You might want to make sure this is all just political hay before you dismiss it so quickly.

[Tgo01]

"Russian stuff". You really should take all of this a bit more seriously.

Yeah drauz, lack of evidence is indeed evidence of something bad happening. Someone who used to teach logic taught me this.

So time4fun, when are you going to admit that Hillary was a piece of shit that skirted the rules and the law when it came to her emails? Fucking HILARIOUS that you of all people would post this and then actually have the balls to say Republicans would be silent about it. Too bad you didn't teach a course in common sense, maybe you could have taught your self some.

[drauz]

"Russian stuff". You really should take all of this a bit more seriously. There are several active investigations that have been going on, several disturbing lies by Trump over his campaign's connections and contacts with Russia, and- oh yeah- an election that was tampered with by Russia.


You might want to make sure this is all just political hay before you dismiss it so quickly.

I'm taking this about as serious as I did the Clinton e-mails. There were several investigations there as well. We all knew she wasn't going to jail, I'm pretty sure Sessions won't either. Both parties are going to support their side and call for people on the other side to join theirs. This is nothing new.

What does me taking this "serious" do? What does me being serious look like to you? Should I be out protesting? Should I be non-stop calling my Congressperson? I have barely said anything regarding this other than I want to see all the facts in their entirety before I make a decision. Shouldn't you want the same?

[time4fun]

I'm taking this about as serious as I did the Clinton e-mails. There were several investigations there as well. We all knew she wasn't going to jail, I'm pretty sure Sessions won't either. Both parties are going to support their side and call for people on the other side to join theirs. This is nothing new.

What does me taking this "serious" do? What does me being serious look like to you? Should I be out protesting? Should I be non-stop calling my Congressperson? I have barely said anything regarding this other than I want to see all the facts in their entirety before I make a decision. Shouldn't you want the same?

False equivalence. Clinton's e-mail server was (supposedly) a concern that her information wasn't as secure as we wanted it to be. The single most explosive accusation anyone could come up with was that she might have been hacked. There was never ANY evidence that she was intentionally trying to work with an enemy of the US.

With Trump, we're talking about concerns of active espionage and collusion to throw an election in exchange for working towards Russian interests. This is 100x worse than anything anyone accused Clinton of. And there was never anything close to the amount of evidence that we're finding out about Trump. Actively meeting with the Russians and consistently lying about it while filling high level US positions with friends of Russia and trying to undermine public faith in our intelligence agencies and free press- which happen to be the only two institutions that could uncover any wrongdoing if such a thing does exist.

At bare minimum, you should avoid dismissing this so flippantly.

[drauz]

False equivalence. Clinton's e-mail server was (supposedly) a concern that her information wasn't as secure as we wanted it to be. The single most explosive accusation anyone could come up with was that she might have been hacked. There was never ANY evidence that she was intentionally trying to work with an enemy of the US.

With Trump, we're talking about concerns of active espionage and collusion to throw an election in exchange for working towards Russian interests. This is 100x worse than anything anyone accused Clinton of. And there was never anything close to the amount of evidence that we're finding out about Trump. Actively meeting with the Russians and consistently lying about it while filling high level US positions with friends of Russia and trying to undermine public faith in our intelligence agencies and free press- which happen to be the only two institutions that could uncover any wrongdoing if such a thing does exist.

At bare minimum, you should avoid dismissing this so flippantly.

We are also talking about a Governor of a state vs the Secretary of State.

[Tgo01]

False equivalence. Clinton's e-mail server was (supposedly) a concern that her information wasn't as secure as we wanted it to be. The single most explosive accusation anyone could come up with was that she might have been hacked. There was never ANY evidence that she was intentionally trying to work with an enemy of the US.


Still waiting for you to admit that Hillary was wrong and never should have even been the candidate for the Democrat party. But we all know what a hypocrite you are so I won't be holding my breath.

But I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that you think the governor of Indiana deals with more sensitive material than the secretary of state and thus should be held to a higher standard. Am I close?

It's almost like I can see the future.


With Trump, we're talking about concerns of active espionage and collusion to throw an election in exchange for working towards Russian interests.

There is exactly zero evidence for this. I feel this is warrants being repeated: THERE IS ZERO FUCKING EVIDENCE OF THIS.

Literally all you have is concerns of Russian hacking, and some of Trump's staff having talks with Russian diplomats, even though by all accounts so far they have been normal and legit talks. This is literally it. And from this you and the rest of your kind have been brain washed into believing this points toward collusion between Trump and Russia to favor Russian interests because your politicians don't want you to realize that they don't have any real or legit plan to get back into power. All they have is this bullshit that you gleefully repeat ad nauseam.

Trump won the election, he will serve out his entire first term and if Democrats keep this shit up for another 4 years then he will serve another full term. It's time to stop this fantasy of Trump being thrown in jail and Hillary taking his place.

[Enuch]

You folks make my morning deuces so enjoyable!

Keep up the good posts!

[Androidpk]

False equivalence. Clinton's e-mail server was (supposedly) a concern that her information wasn't as secure as we wanted it to be.

False false false. Clinton's e-mail server was a concern because she was storing highly classified information on a private, non-government server that had little to no security on it. Might have been hacked? It was hacked by multiple nation state intelligence organizations and who knows. She then proceeded to try and cover it up by deleting evidence of said doing and continuously lie it about and people like actually believed her 120%.

[time4fun]

False false false. Clinton's e-mail server was a concern because she was storing highly classified information on a private, non-government server that had little to no security on it. Might have been hacked? It was hacked by multiple nation state intelligence organizations and who knows. She then proceeded to try and cover it up by deleting evidence of said doing and continuously lie it about and people like actually believed her 120%.

Actually there was no evidence of a successful hack. The most they could say was that they couldn't rule it out. And the"highly classified information storage's were emails other people sent to her. (There were what, 4 emails? Even Comey testified that it would have been reasonable not to have recognized them as such)

But nothing you just said alters the fundamental point. We're taking about supposed national security implications of two situations, and the only national security concerns with Clinton were concerns around unintentional foreign access.

Let's face it- at this point we traded that for a situation where unintentional foreign access is the best case scenario.

Remember when you all were trying to convince yourselves that her server violated the Espionage Act? THOSE were the good days. What we're watching unfold- that's more Espionage Act territory.

[time4fun]

We are also talking about a Governor of a state vs the Secretary of State.

Except I was taking about Trump and Russia, not Pence and a US state.

Frankly, I'm no more concerned about Pence than I was about Clinton. Until I see evidence that Pence was deleting emails with the intention of breaking public records laws, I'm nonplussed.

[Parkbandit]

"Russian stuff". You really should take all of this a bit more seriously. There are several active investigations that have been going on, several disturbing lies by Trump over his campaign's connections and contacts with Russia, and- oh yeah- an election that was tampered with by Russia.


You might want to make sure this is all just political hay before you dismiss it so quickly.

Could you list the evidence that you've collected so far in your investigation of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government?

Thank you.

[Parkbandit]

False equivalence. Clinton's e-mail server was (supposedly) a concern that her information wasn't as secure as we wanted it to be. The single most explosive accusation anyone could come up with was that she might have been hacked. There was never ANY evidence that she was intentionally trying to work with an enemy of the US.

With Trump, we're talking about concerns of active espionage and collusion to throw an election in exchange for working towards Russian interests. This is 100x worse than anything anyone accused Clinton of. And there was never anything close to the amount of evidence that we're finding out about Trump. Actively meeting with the Russians and consistently lying about it while filling high level US positions with friends of Russia and trying to undermine public faith in our intelligence agencies and free press- which happen to be the only two institutions that could uncover any wrongdoing if such a thing does exist.

At bare minimum, you should avoid dismissing this so flippantly.

The only people "talking" about it are people who are still so upset about Hillary losing the election.

The stupidity you and your ilk are demonstrating is entertaining.

[Parkbandit]

Except I was taking about Trump and Russia, not Pence and a US state.

Frankly, I'm no more concerned about Pence than I was about Clinton. Until I see evidence that Pence was deleting emails with the intention of breaking public records laws, I'm nonplussed.

Yea, if Pence did the same thing Clinton did.. then scrubbed the private server to make sure it's not retrievable, then I say we investigate it further.

[Wrathbringer]

"Russian stuff". You really should take all of this a bit more seriously. There are several active investigations that have been going on, several disturbing lies by Trump over his campaign's connections and contacts with Russia, and- oh yeah- an election that was tampered with by Russia.


You might want to make sure this is all just political hay before you dismiss it so quickly.

Omg seriously? Russia tampered with our election, huh?

Eta: almost forgot. You lost get over it.

[time4fun]

Yea, if Pence did the same thing Clinton did.. then scrubbed the private server to make sure it's not retrievable, then I say we investigate it further.

Taken from Comey's statement on the Clinton Server political haymaker:


We have conducted interviews and done technical examination to attempt to understand how that sorting [of e-mails for deletion] was done by her attorneys.... we believe our investigation has been sufficient to give us reasonable confidence there was no intentional misconduct in connection with that sorting effort.


we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information...


I should add here that we found no evidence that any of the additional work-related e-mails were intentionally deleted in an effort to conceal [information from the investigation]


Oh PB- in case you're curious- this is you being schooled.

[Taernath]

his personal AOL account

AOL. Why am I not surprised.

[Neovik1]

Zomg Schumer is a Russian spy too!
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/03/flashback-chuck-schumer-meets-vlad-putin-new-york-city/

Krispygate!

[Parkbandit]

Taken from Comey's statement on the Clinton Server political haymaker:

Oh PB- in case you're curious- this is you being schooled.

If this is me being "schooled", it's clear you never made it past 2nd grade.

So, with this entire email thread you created, are you suggesting that Pence intended to violate laws and that there was intentional misconduct on his part? Or are you just doing what you always do.. throwing out a bunch of bullshit and hoping something sticks.. because you are still so very upset and frightened and scared about the election outcome?

[Androidpk]

Actually there was no evidence of a successful hack. The most they could say was that they couldn't rule it out. And the"highly classified information storage's were emails other people sent to her. (There were what, 4 emails? Even Comey testified that it would have been reasonable not to have recognized them as such)

But nothing you just said alters the fundamental point. We're taking about supposed national security implications of two situations, and the only national security concerns with Clinton were concerns around unintentional foreign access.

Let's face it- at this point we traded that for a situation where unintentional foreign access is the best case scenario.

Remember when you all were trying to convince yourselves that her server violated the Espionage Act? THOSE were the good days. What we're watching unfold- that's more Espionage Act territory.

Once again you are completely wrong and you are displaying your complete ignorance in regards to cyber security and the reality of what Clinton did and how the FBI had their hands tied in the investigation by Obama's DOJ.

[Pin]

If this is me being "schooled", it's clear you never made it past 2nd grade.

So, with this entire email thread you created, are you suggesting that Pence intended to violate laws and that there was intentional misconduct on his part? Or are you just doing what you always do.. throwing out a bunch of bullshit and hoping something sticks.. because you are still so very upset and frightened and scared about the election outcome?

I'm guessing she is suggesting that Pence is a hypocrite seeing as how she stated that this is no bigger a deal to her then when Clinton was accused of similar.

[Gelston]

Thing is Pence was the executive of his state. Classification and computer systems and emails and shit? All that is by his own orders. As Governor, he could set yahoo to be the official email. As President, Obama, Trump, whoever could do the same. All classification, and powers of, is derived from the Executive level. A Governor cannot break the law in that manner, unless it was Federal matters. A Secretary of State, however, is not the Executive. They are a Secretary, the powers of classification do not derive from their office.

That is the major important difference.

[Pin]

Thing is Pence was the executive of his state. Classification and computer systems and emails and shit? All that is by his own orders. As Governor, he could set yahoo to be the official email. As President, Obama, Trump, whoever could do the same. All classification, and powers of, is derived from the Executive level. A Governor cannot break the law in that manner, unless it was Federal matters. A Secretary of State, however, is not the Executive. They are a Secretary, the powers of classification do not derive from their office.

That is the major important difference.

Oh I agree with you as far as the importance of the material concerned. The issue is still at the very least ironic ... if not flat out hypocritical.

[Thondalar]

If nothing else, Sessions recused himself in the whole Russia situation.

Lynch did not.

We can go on ad nauseam over the details of various "scandals" on both sides, but...that's something we can look at and see right off that one side is doing the right thing and one side did not.


Oh I agree with you as far as the importance of the material concerned. The issue is still at the very least ironic ... if not flat out hypocritical.

The only hypocrisy here is the left trying to make this a big deal when it is a watered-down version of what Hillary did as Secretary of State.

The "modern left" continues to dig their own grave. The majority of US citizens aren't stupid people.

[Thondalar]

The person I feel for the most in all of this is Comey. That poor guy...I bet he gets like 1 hour of sleep every few days.

First he's colluding with Clinton, then he's orchestrating her downfall, then he's covering up for Russia...man.

[Tgo01]

Oh I agree with you as far as the importance of the material concerned. The issue is still at the very least ironic ... if not flat out hypocritical.

I think the main problem with what Hillary did wasn't so much she used a private email address like AOL or Google, although that's pretty bad too. It's that she used her own private server which left records of her emails on a server inside of her home. So now it's not just a matter of hacking into the server, the physical server itself was easily accessible to who knows how many people. I'm sure the Clintons have quite a few visitors to their home, Bill himself must get a blowjob 3 or 4 times a week from various women.

It's also the fact that it's illegal to have sensitive/secret/whatever material on a physical device such as this.

[Donquix]

I think the main problem with what Hillary did wasn't so much she used a private email address like AOL or Google, although that's pretty bad too. It's that she used her own private server which left records of her emails on a server inside of her home. So now it's not just a matter of hacking into the server, the physical server itself was easily accessible to who knows how many people. I'm sure the Clintons have quite a few visitors to their home, Bill himself must get a blowjob 3 or 4 times a week from various women.

It's also the fact that it's illegal to have sensitive/secret/whatever material on a physical device such as this.

It feels like you guys romanticize the shit out of this situation. Like in your mind it's some True Lies shit where some russian superspy is using his pelvic sorcery to bang Hilary then be all "grabbin a tang, oh i mean Gatorade, be right back babe." to sneak off into the room marked TOP SEKRET and hack her gibson where they attain information that could cripple all of western civilization.

Which is then odd, because on the Russian influence side you're like "no big whoop" when in fact...some truly fucking shady things like people involved with it including enough to force at least 1 appointee resignation, and other parts of the dossier, et. all being confirmed by actual government agencies foreign and domestic, and you're like "nahhhhh, not even worth looking into.

The mental gymnastics are strong.

[time4fun]

If nothing else, Sessions recused himself in the whole Russia situation.

Lynch did not.

We can go on ad nauseam over the details of various "scandals" on both sides, but...that's something we can look at and see right off that one side is doing the right thing and one side did not.



The only hypocrisy here is the left trying to make this a big deal when it is a watered-down version of what Hillary did as Secretary of State.

The "modern left" continues to dig their own grave. The majority of US citizens aren't stupid people.

Huh? Lynch absolutely recused herself.

Remember? She said she would accept the decision of the career prosecutors.

So we're clear- all the Lynch situation really told us is that the FBI was never seriously considering criminal charges. They had figured out there was nothing worth prosecuting long before that.

Also that, despite being a former President, Bill Clinton is oddly tone deaf sometimes.

[time4fun]

It feels like you guys romanticize the shit out of this situation. Like in your mind it's some True Lies shit where some russian superspy is using his pelvic sorcery to bang Hilary then be all "grabbin a tang, oh i mean Gatorade, be right back babe." to sneak off into the room marked TOP SEKRET and hack her gibson where they attain information that could cripple all of western civilization.

Which is then odd, because on the Russian influence side you're like "no big whoop" when in fact...some truly fucking shady things like people involved with it including enough to force at least 1 appointee resignation, and other parts of the dossier, et. all being confirmed by actual government agencies foreign and domestic, and you're like "nahhhhh, not even worth looking into.

The mental gymnastics are strong.

Right?

Remember the dozen or so investigations into Clinton, and now the GOP is doing everything in their power to obstruct investigations into the Trump campaign.

They're so afraid that a legitimate investigation will uncover something that calls into question the legitimacy of the 2016 election that they're willing to risk selling us out to the Russians to maintain power.

[time4fun]

The person I feel for the most in all of this is Comey. That poor guy...I bet he gets like 1 hour of sleep every few days.

First he's colluding with Clinton, then he's orchestrating her downfall, then he's covering up for Russia...man.

I agree with you here.

Look- Comey FUCKED UP with the Clinton investigation announcements. He broke some seriously long-standing rules that were place for a reason. If he hadn't, odds are Clinton would have won.

And realistically- the FBI is currently obstructing the Congressional investigations into the Trump-Russia connections. The Intelligence Committee members are actually considering subpoenaing the FBI for their investigation information because Comey refuses to answer any questions.

Democrats (in particular) on the committee are surmising that he may have been ordered by Sessions or Trump not to cooperate, but Comey has a very well-established reputation for standing up to his bosses to do what he thinks is right. Their reasons for obstruction could genuinely be bad, but I can't imagine a situation where Comey would obstruct Congress just because his boss (or boss's boss) told him to.

[Gelston]

Look- Comey FUCKED UP with the Clinton investigation announcements. He broke some seriously long-standing rules that were place for a reason. If he hadn't, odds are Clinton would have won.

rofl, it is ANYONE but Clinton's fault she lost.

[Thondalar]

It feels like you guys romanticize the shit out of this situation. Like in your mind it's some True Lies shit where some russian superspy is using his pelvic sorcery to bang Hilary then be all "grabbin a tang, oh i mean Gatorade, be right back babe." to sneak off into the room marked TOP SEKRET and hack her gibson where they attain information that could cripple all of western civilization.

What Tg said is legally sound...there actually is a law that says you're not allowed to have classified information on a non-approved device. That's a real thing.

I don't know of anyone who thinks of that in any other way than the basic wording of the law.

The part about Bill getting blowjobs is just editorializing on his part...don't get distracted from the reality of it.


Which is then odd, because on the Russian influence side you're like "no big whoop" when in fact...some truly fucking shady things like people involved with it including enough to force at least 1 appointee resignation, and other parts of the dossier, et. all being confirmed by actual government agencies foreign and domestic, and you're like "nahhhhh, not even worth looking into.

The mental gymnastics are strong.

You're comparing apples to oranges, here.

Nobody is saying there shouldn't be an investigation into the supposed "Russian influence"...quite the contrary, even several notable Republicans are calling for it, and it is going to happen. The Attorney General has recused himself from this investigation because of his personal ties to involved parties...something the previous AG did NOT do.

I expect a full and thorough investigation of all of this, and it will be a much more transparent investigation than what happened during the last, very corrupt, administration.

[Parkbandit]

I'm guessing she is suggesting that Pence is a hypocrite seeing as how she stated that this is no bigger a deal to her then when Clinton was accused of similar.

Federal vs. State... different rules/laws

Pence on an AOL account, where AOL can be forced to give his emails to the investigating authority vs. a self contained server in the basement where she controls everything.

1 is clearly not intending to hide information. The other one clearly is.

[Tgo01]

It feels like you guys romanticize the shit out of this situation. Like in your mind it's some True Lies shit where some russian superspy is using his pelvic sorcery to bang Hilary then be all "grabbin a tang, oh i mean Gatorade, be right back babe." to sneak off into the room marked TOP SEKRET and hack her gibson where they attain information that could cripple all of western civilization.

I don't think pointing out the facts of the two cases is inherently bad, is it? I mean if time4fun wants to dredge up this false equivalency then I'm going to call out her bullshit and point out where things are different. I'll go ahead and do so now:

Hillary handled very sensitive information as secretary of state. I don't think the governor of Indiana dealt with information nearly as classified.

Hillary had a private server inside of her home. Pence did not.

Hillary lied about it and scrubbed her server clean before handing it over. From what I have seen Pence was not hiding the fact at all that he was using an AOL account.

By using a private server Hillary kept physical records of her emails in her home. Pence did not.

As Gelston pointed out Pence is in a position to determine what is and is not allowed when it comes to sensitive information. Hillary was not.

That's all just off the top of my head, yet time4fun wants to say the two situations are identical to call out Republicans who she insisted would keep quiet about this, then when it turns out some of our more right leaning posters came out and said Pence was wrong and pointed out she still hasn't said the same about Hillary time4fun THEN turned around and said "Oh no, these two situations are different after all."

[Parkbandit]

Look- Comey FUCKED UP with the Clinton investigation announcements. He broke some seriously long-standing rules that were place for a reason. If he hadn't, odds are Clinton would have won.


Seriously?

You're hilarious.

[Parkbandit]

I don't think pointing out the facts of the two cases is inherently bad, is it? I mean if time4fun wants to dredge up this false equivalency then I'm going to call out her bullshit and point out where things are different. I'll go ahead and do so now:

Hillary handled very sensitive information as secretary of state. I don't think the governor of Indiana dealt with information nearly as classified.

Hillary had a private server inside of her home. Pence did not.

Hillary lied about it and scrubbed her server clean before handing it over. From what I have seen Pence was not hiding the fact at all that he was using an AOL account.

By using a private server Hillary kept physical records of her emails in her home. Pence did not.

As Gelston pointed out Pence is in a position to determine what is and is not allowed when it comes to sensitive information. Hillary was not.

That's all just off the top of my head, yet time4fun wants to say the two situations are identical to call out Republicans who she insisted would keep quiet about this, then when it turns out some of our more right leaning posters came out and said Pence was wrong and pointed out she still hasn't said the same about Hillary time4fun THEN turned around and said "Oh no, these two situations are different after all."

"DERP BUT BOTH ARE ABOUT EMAILS SO THEY ARE IDENTICAL! PENCE SHOULD BE PUT IN JAIL AND HILLARY SHOULD BE PRESIDENT!"

[Thondalar]

I'll say one final thing about Comey...

If you're in a position like his, and you're either ALWAYS the bad guy or ALWAYS the good guy, you're probably doing something very, very wrong.

That he is sometimes the good guy and sometimes the bad guy speaks volumes to the fact that he's probably just a normal guy doing his best at a really, really tough job.

[time4fun]

What Tg said is legally sound...there actually is a law that says you're not allowed to have classified information on a non-approved device. That's a real thing.

I don't know of anyone who thinks of that in any other way than the basic wording of the law.

The part about Bill getting blowjobs is just editorializing on his part...don't get distracted from the reality of it.



You're comparing apples to oranges, here.

Nobody is saying there shouldn't be an investigation into the supposed "Russian influence"...quite the contrary, even several notable Republicans are calling for it, and it is going to happen. The Attorney General has recused himself from this investigation because of his personal ties to involved parties...something the previous AG did NOT do.

I expect a full and thorough investigation of all of this, and it will be a much more transparent investigation than what happened during the last, very corrupt, administration.

Saying that "no one is saying there shouldn't be an investigation" is a pretty misleading statement.

In fact, if you recall, Republicans in Congress initially refused to investigate the Trump Campaign ties with Russia. It was only after substantial pressure that they bowed and said they would. And a few weeks later, the Republican chairmen of the Senate and House Intelligence committees (the ones running the investigations) were calling reporters and telling them Trump and his campaign had done nothing wrong, so please stop reporting on the connections.

The investigations had just begun.

And in the last 24 hours- Trump said that Sessions shouldn't recuse himself from investigating a campaign that he was actually a part of (which is insane), and he and the Republicans in Congress are still fighting against an independent prosecutor.

This is hardly what I would call a group of people who are sincere in their desire to get to the truth, whatever it may be.

[Tgo01]

"DERP BUT BOTH ARE ABOUT EMAILS SO THEY ARE IDENTICAL! PENCE SHOULD BE PUT IN JAIL AND HILLARY SHOULD BE PRESIDENT!"

The funniest part was where people started pointing out all of the differences (but still claiming Pence shouldn't have used an AOL email) she then basically said the two instances are the same and since she doesn't think the Pence story is a big deal that means she's not gonna make a big deal out of the Hillary email story.

Totally hilarious. Like this thread totally went in a different direction than what she was expecting so she then she had to declare the two events are the same and she's going to give Pence a pass and implying we should therefore give Hillary a pass. Then she went on to state how the situations are actually different and Hillary is in the clear because reasons.

[Thondalar]

I don't think pointing out the facts of the two cases is inherently bad, is it? I mean if time4fun wants to dredge up this false equivalency then I'm going to call out her bullshit and point out where things are different. I'll go ahead and do so now:

Hillary handled very sensitive information as secretary of state. I don't think the governor of Indiana dealt with information nearly as classified.

Hillary had a private server inside of her home. Pence did not.

Hillary lied about it and scrubbed her server clean before handing it over. From what I have seen Pence was not hiding the fact at all that he was using an AOL account.

By using a private server Hillary kept physical records of her emails in her home. Pence did not.

As Gelston pointed out Pence is in a position to determine what is and is not allowed when it comes to sensitive information. Hillary was not.

That's all just off the top of my head, yet time4fun wants to say the two situations are identical to call out Republicans who she insisted would keep quiet about this, then when it turns out some of our more right leaning posters came out and said Pence was wrong and pointed out she still hasn't said the same about Hillary time4fun THEN turned around and said "Oh no, these two situations are different after all."

This is precisely why the "modern left" continues to lose traction.

I simply don't understand why anyone thought it would be a good idea to bring this up, other than full derp-mode "gotcha!" mentality...but this is going to backfire tremendously.

[time4fun]

This is precisely why the "modern left" continues to lose traction.

I simply don't understand why anyone thought it would be a good idea to bring this up, other than full derp-mode "gotcha!" mentality...but this is going to backfire tremendously.

Thondalar- the "modern left" got almost 3 million more votes than the "modern right" did.

The fact that it translated into losing the White House and both Houses of Congress isn't a sign that they're losing traction.

It's a sign that the GOP has been doing an excellent job with their gerrymandering and voter "turnout control" efforts. That's not something to celebrate. It's inherently undemocratic and undermines faith in our entire system just for a few electoral wins.

[time4fun]

The funniest part was where people started pointing out all of the differences (but still claiming Pence shouldn't have used an AOL email) she then basically said the two instances are the same and since she doesn't think the Pence story is a big deal that means she's not gonna make a big deal out of the Hillary email story.

Totally hilarious. Like this thread totally went in a different direction than what she was expecting so she then she had to declare the two events are the same and she's going to give Pence a pass and implying we should therefore give Hillary a pass. Then she went on to state how the situations are actually different and Hillary is in the clear because reasons.

I genuinely don't know what it is about you that makes you so incapable of reading what's actually on the page instead of what you want to be on the page, but I never said they were the same thing.

In fact, I actually opened with a difference between the two and later I said I was nonplussed about the whole thing- proceeding to discuss the Russia issue, not the server issue.

You literally make things up in other people's arguments and then argue against them. It's the straw man argument sans one chromosome.

[Tgo01]

Thondalar- the "modern left" got almost 3 million more votes than the "modern right" did.

The "modern right" got almost 2 million more votes in total in the House, yet they lost 6 seats. According to your logic they should have gained seats, right? Or do we act like adults and realize shit isn't always as simple as the popular vote in elections? Grow the fuck up already.

[Candor]

Pence using an AOL email account while governor was clearly not a good decision, but there is no comparison between that and what Clinton did with her private email server.

[Wrathbringer]

Thondalar- the "modern left" got almost 3 million more votes than the "modern right" did.

The fact that it translated into losing the White House and both Houses of Congress isn't a sign that they're losing traction.

It's a sign that the GOP has been doing an excellent job with their gerrymandering and voter "turnout control" efforts. That's not something to celebrate. It's inherently undemocratic and undermines faith in our entire system just for a few electoral wins.

I...I just...I just can't...

[time4fun]

Pence using an AOL email account while governor was clearly not a good decision, but there is no comparison between that and what Clinton did with her private email server.

Well actually, none of us knows enough information about the Pence situation to make an assessment like that. Unless something new has come to light that I missed (which is possible), at this point we have like 30 e-mails that were released via FOIA, and that's it.

[Thondalar]

Saying that "no one is saying there shouldn't be an investigation" is a pretty misleading statement.

At the time I said it (a few minutes ago), it is not misleading at all. The investigation is happening, and people on both sides of the aisle are calling for it.


In fact, if you recall, Republicans in Congress initially refused to investigate the Trump Campaign ties with Russia.

Well, yeah. "Republicans" aren't in charge of investigating anything...Congressional Committees are. They don't investigate everything that happens...there has to be some fair amount of circumstantial something to warrant an investigation.


It was only after substantial pressure that they bowed and said they would.

Huh. Sounds familiar.


And a few weeks later, the Republican chairmen of the Senate and House Intelligence committees (the ones running the investigations) were calling reporters and telling them Trump and his campaign had done nothing wrong, so please stop reporting on the connections.

That's not even remotely what happened. I can only assume you're talking about Nunes' comments about Flynn, which was misreported by several news outlets you probably worship, and later proven to be just such. Pretty easy to find the full story (http://www.mediaite.com/online/no-republican-house-intelligence-chairman-didnt-threaten-to-investigate-reporters/).


The investigations had just begun.

Yep, it did just begin, after all that. Now it is happening, and we all want it to happen...the left wants it to happen because they think there's something there to hang Trump on, and the right wants it to happen because they know nothing is there and this will be another huge nail in the Dems' coffin...the rest of us normal people who don't prescribe to the left/right enslavement paradigm want it to happen because we just want transparency in government.


And in the last 24 hours- Trump said that Sessions shouldn't recuse himself from investigating a campaign that he was actually a part of (which is insane)

Trump said he believes Sessions to be an honest man, and he shouldn't recuse himself because he shouldn't have to. That's very different from saying he shouldn't recuse himself because he wants him to cover something up for him. Regardless, that's not Trump's call, and Sessions already recused himself.


and he and the Republicans in Congress are still fighting against an independent prosecutor.

This is patently false. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/25/top-republican-says-special-prosecutor-should-investigate-russian-meddling-in-trumps-election/?utm_term=.b51b0d3e0bc4)


This is hardly what I would call a group of people who are sincere in their desire to get to the truth, whatever it may be.

I have no doubt you feel that way.

[Tgo01]

at this point we have like 30 e-mails that were released via FOIA, and that's it.

You mean Pence followed the law and released emails via a FOIA request? What a fool! He should have gone on national TV and claimed it was just a vast left wing conspiracy against him! He should have scrubbed his private server clean then handed it over and said "GOOD LUCK FINDING ANYTHING, SUCKERS!"

This man is clearly a noob when it comes to being a corrupt politician like Hillary.

[Thondalar]

game. set. match.

[Parkbandit]

Thondalar- the "modern left" got almost 3 million more votes than the "modern right" did.

Are you STILL seriously holding onto this? It didn't help in 2000.. certainly didn't help in 2016.

It's because Presidential elections aren't decided by popular vote.


The fact that it translated into losing the White House and both Houses of Congress isn't a sign that they're losing traction.

It is though. ALL 3 branches are in the hands of the opposition. Plus all the state houses.. it's been an ass kicking since 2010.


It's a sign that the GOP has been doing an excellent job with their gerrymandering and voter "turnout control" efforts. That's not something to celebrate. It's inherently undemocratic and undermines faith in our entire system just for a few electoral wins.

THIS is why the GOP will continue to win elections.. because it doesn't matter how you slice it, you are losing races due to shitty candidates and shitty platforms.. but all you have is "Derp, derp.. them GOP are racists and cheaters!"

[Stolis]

Thondalar- the "modern left" got almost 3 million more votes than the "modern right" did.

The fact that it translated into losing the White House and both Houses of Congress isn't a sign that they're losing traction.

It's a sign that the GOP has been doing an excellent job with their gerrymandering and voter "turnout control" efforts. That's not something to celebrate. It's inherently undemocratic and undermines faith in our entire system just for a few electoral wins.

Holy. Shit. NO ONE CARES about the popular vote. THAT doesn't put you in the Oval Office. 270 electoral votes does. When will you stop focusing on something that doesn't matter and is completely irrelevant?

[Geijon Khyree]

It is though. ALL 3 branches are in the hands of the opposition. Plus all the state houses.. it's been an ass kicking since 2010.


Kinda. 2018 should feel like the past few years for the Republicans in upswell. They lose one of them in 2018.

[time4fun]

Holy. Shit. NO ONE CARES about the popular vote. THAT doesn't put you in the Oval Office. 270 electoral votes does. When will you stop focusing on something that doesn't matter and is completely irrelevant?

So, let me show you the problem with hard numbers. For context: after 2010, the GOP proceeded to gerrymander the heck out of the entire country (and began passing their voter suppression laws en mass) Keep that in mind while we look at these numbers:

Below is a chart demonstrating how each party's seat count in Congress related to their raw vote count. For example:

2006: Democrats got 52% of the vote and won 53.6% of seats- which means they had a net advantage of 1.6%. Meanwhile, Republicans got 45.6% of the vote and 46.4% of the seats, which is a net advantage of .8%. Comparing the parties, that year Democrats had a .8% advantage over Republicans when it came to electoral power per vote.

So let's look at the trend before and after the post-2010 gerrymander fest: (2006-2014 are combined H+ S)

2006: D: +1.6% R: +.8% Net: D +.8%
2008: D + 6.2% R: -1.4% Net: D: +7.6% (this was a massive outlier number in the data- even if you go back before 2006)

-----------------------------
2010: D: -.2% R: +4.2% Net: R +4.4% (This was the huge republican wave)

----------------------------- Gerrymandering begins

2012: D: -2.1% R: +6.9% Net: R: 9%
2014: D: -2.3% R: +6.2% Net: R: 8.5%
2016(H) D: -3.4% R:+ 6.3% Net: R: 8.9%
2016 (S) D: -5.5% R: +4.5% Net: R: 10%


Here's the entire 2016 Election breakdown (raw vote advantage vs seat/etc advantage)

President: Democrats: +2.8% Republicans win White House
Senate: Democrats: +11.13% Republicans win the Senate by 4 seats
House: Republicans: +1.1% Republicans win the House by 47 seats

In case you're curious- this is NOT what Democracy is supposed to look like, and it is most certainly not a sign that Democrats are on the decline. It's a sign that the entire process is stacked against Democrats right now and HEAVILY stacked in the GOP's favor. This is deeply unethical, and it's not something anyone should be applauding. Our system is VERY broken right now, and the GOP's efforts to break it in their favor have paid off in a vomit-inducing way.

This is a legitimate problem.

[Androidpk]

I agree with you here.

Look- Comey FUCKED UP with the Clinton investigation announcements. He broke some seriously long-standing rules that were place for a reason. If he hadn't, odds are Clinton would have won.

And realistically- the FBI is currently obstructing the Congressional investigations into the Trump-Russia connections. The Intelligence Committee members are actually considering subpoenaing the FBI for their investigation information because Comey refuses to answer any questions.

Democrats (in particular) on the committee are surmising that he may have been ordered by Sessions or Trump not to cooperate, but Comey has a very well-established reputation for standing up to his bosses to do what he thinks is right. Their reasons for obstruction could genuinely be bad, but I can't imagine a situation where Comey would obstruct Congress just because his boss (or boss's boss) told him to.


Comey did what he did because he knows Clinton is guilty as fuck but also knows not a single DOJ prosecutor was gonna touch the case.

[Tgo01]

Senate: Democrats: +11.13% Republicans win the Senate by 4 seats
House: Republicans: +1.8% Republicans win the House by 47 seats[/B]

I love how you neglected to mention that in both houses Republicans LOST seats. BUT WHAT?! Going by your logic shouldn't Republicans GAIN seats in the house?

Talk about fake news.

I also like how you openly admit Republicans had no trouble winning back the house before their supposed gerrymandering started. What's more for some reason you mentioned the Senate in all of this. The fucking Senate?! How do the Republicans gerrymander the Senate? Do you have the slightest clue what the fuck you're talking about?

[time4fun]

At the time I said it (a few minutes ago), it is not misleading at all. The investigation is happening, and people on both sides of the aisle are calling for it.



Well, yeah. "Republicans" aren't in charge of investigating anything...Congressional Committees are. They don't investigate everything that happens...there has to be some fair amount of circumstantial something to warrant an investigation.

Okay Thondalar- *WHO* controls the Committees right now? Oh yeah- Republicans. So this is an unethically misleading statement on your part. You know better.





That's not even remotely what happened. I can only assume you're talking about Nunes' comments about Flynn, which was misreported by several news outlets you probably worship, and later proven to be just such. Pretty easy to find the full story (http://www.mediaite.com/online/no-republican-house-intelligence-chairman-didnt-threaten-to-investigate-reporters/).

Um that's EXACTLY what happened (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-administration-sought-to-enlist-intelligence-officials-key-lawmakers-to-counter-russia-stories/2017/02/24/c8487552-fa99-11e6-be05-1a3817ac21a5_story.html?utm_term=.ed147220728c):

The Trump administration has enlisted senior members of the intelligence community and Congress in efforts to counter news stories about Trump associates’ ties to Russia, a politically charged issue that has been under investigation by the FBI as well as lawmakers now defending the White House.


Acting at the behest of the White House, the officials made calls to news organizations last week in attempts to challenge stories about alleged contacts between members of President Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, U.S. officials said.


The effort also involved senior lawmakers with access to classified intelligence about Russia, including Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) and Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), the chairmen of the Senate and House intelligence committees. A spokesman for Nunes said that he had already begun speaking to reporters to challenge the story and that, “at the request of a White House communications aide, Chairman Nunes then spoke to an additional reporter and delivered the same message.”

Burr and Nunes are the ones who are supposed to be impartially investigating the Trump-Russia ties. What the hell were they doing calling reporters to tell them there was no wrongdoing by the Trump Campaign, AT THE BEHEST of the Trump Campaign, and at the beginning of their investigations?




Yep, it did just begin, after all that. Now it is happening, and we all want it to happen...the left wants it to happen because they think there's something there to hang Trump on, and the right wants it to happen because they know nothing is there and this will be another huge nail in the Dems' coffin...the rest of us normal people who don't prescribe to the left/right enslavement paradigm want it to happen because we just want transparency in government.

yeah it began after months of the GOP leadership dragging their heels and trying to keep the investigations from occurring at all. You need to acknowledge that fact and stop pretending like they were rushing out to find the truth.




Trump said he believes Sessions to be an honest man, and he shouldn't recuse himself because he shouldn't have to. That's very different from saying he shouldn't recuse himself because he wants him to cover something up for him. Regardless, that's not Trump's call, and Sessions already recused himself.

This is almost not even worth responding to. Your argument just amounted to: "Because Trump didn't publicly announce that he was motivated by a desire to have Sessions help cover things up, clearly that wasn't his motivation". Because obviously if that actually were what was going on, the first step to covering up wrongdoing would be for Trump to announce to the world that he was engaging in said cover up.




This is patently false. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/25/top-republican-says-special-prosecutor-should-investigate-russian-meddling-in-trumps-election/?utm_term=.b51b0d3e0bc4)

ONE single Republican? Are you kidding me? House and Senate GOP Leadership are the ones who could make this happen, and they (and the other 99% of Republicans) are running around telling everyone that an independent prosecutor is a bad idea. Try some honesty in your responses.

Also it's hilarious you keep referring to yourself as an independent. You know what's funny about American independent voters? Most of them vote straight ticket for one party or the other. They will say they're independent, but they vote as partisans.

Sound familiar?

[time4fun]

Comey did what he did because he knows Clinton is guilty as fuck but also knows not a single DOJ prosecutor was gonna touch the case.

That's a completely inane statement. YOU think she was guilty.

If Comey thought there was something worth prosecuting, he would have recommended indictment. He chose not to- LIKE EVERY OTHER INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WHO LOOKED INTO IT. And also like the dozen or so Congressional "investigations"- none of which ever found anything material to pin on Clinton.

You need to learn to get over this. You lost. You were wrong.

[time4fun]

I love how you neglected to mention that in both houses Republicans LOST seats. BUT WHAT?! Going by your logic shouldn't Republicans GAIN seats in the house?

Talk about fake news.

I also like how you openly admit Republicans had no trouble winning back the house before their supposed gerrymandering started. What's more for some reason you mentioned the Senate in all of this. The fucking Senate?! How do the Republicans gerrymander the Senate? Do you have the slightest clue what the fuck you're talking about?

Hey genius:

If you lose the vote count by 11%, you SHOULD lose seats. And you should have the MINORITY of seats.

If you win by 1.8%, you shouldn't end up with an 8% seat count advantage of the other party.

Equitable electoral outcomes aren't about who won or lost more seats- they're about the proportion of seats vs the proportion of votes.

Please tell me you understand math well enough to get that.

[Androidpk]

That's a completely inane statement. YOU think she was guilty.

If Comey thought there was something worth prosecuting, he would have recommended indictment. He chose not to- LIKE EVERY OTHER INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WHO LOOKED INTO IT. And also like the dozen or so Congressional "investigations"- none of which ever found anything material to pin on Clinton.

You need to learn to get over this. You lost. You were wrong.

Comey made it clear he wasn't recommending indictment because no sane prosecutor was going to touch the case. Also, as I mentioned previously, other intelligence agencies didn't investigate. Hell it was those other intelligence agencies that fucking brought this to the attention of the FBI in the first place.

You need to stop wearing your party blinders. She was guilty back then and she's still guilty now.

[time4fun]

Oh I was wrong, sorry.

Republicans had a 1.1% advantage in the House Election raw votes not 1.8%.

But still almost 50 more seats.

THAT is called undemocratic gerrymandering.

[Stolis]

So, let me show you the problem with hard numbers. For context: after 2010, the GOP proceeded to gerrymander the heck out of the entire country (and began passing their voter suppression laws en mass) Keep that in mind while we look at these numbers:

Below is a chart demonstrating how each party's seat count in Congress related to their raw vote count. For example:

2006: Democrats got 52% of the vote and won 53.6% of seats- which means they had a net advantage of 1.6%. Meanwhile, Republicans got 45.6% of the vote and 46.4% of the seats, which is a net advantage of .8%. Comparing the parties, that year Democrats had a .8% advantage over Republicans when it came to electoral power per vote.

So let's look at the trend before and after the post-2010 gerrymander fest: (2006-2014 are combined H+ S)

2006: D: +1.6% R: +.8% Net: D +.8%
2008: D + 6.2% R: -1.4% Net: D: +7.6% (this was a massive outlier number in the data- even if you go back before 2006)

-----------------------------
2010: D: -.2% R: +4.2% Net: R +4.4% (This was the huge republican wave)

----------------------------- Gerrymandering begins

2012: D: -2.1% R: +6.9% Net: R: 9%
2014: D: -2.3% R: +6.2% Net: R: 8.5%
2016(H) D: -3.4% R:+ 6.3% Net: R: 8.9%
2016 (S) D: -5.5% R: +4.5% Net: R: 10%


Here's the entire 2016 Election breakdown (raw vote advantage vs seat/etc advantage)

President: Democrats: +2.8% Republicans win White House
Senate: Democrats: +11.13% Republicans win the Senate by 4 seats
House: Republicans: +1.1% Republicans win the House by 47 seats

In case you're curious- this is NOT what Democracy is supposed to look like, and it is most certainly not a sign that Democrats are on the decline. It's a sign that the entire process is stacked against Democrats right now and HEAVILY stacked in the GOP's favor. This is deeply unethical, and it's not something anyone should be applauding. Our system is VERY broken right now, and the GOP's efforts to break it in their favor have paid off in a vomit-inducing way.

This is a legitimate problem.

You're adorable. I just want to hug you and tell you the world is going to be ok, and that it's ok that your political party literally has no idea what they're doing right now. The world won't end.

[time4fun]

You're adorable. I just want to hug you and tell you the world is going to be ok, and that it's ok that your political party literally has no idea what they're doing right now. The world won't end.

"My" party has more votes than your party for the White House and the Senate.

You're putting your party loyalty over your loyalty to your nation's democracy. The fact that you just looked at those numbers and decided it was a good thing that the Democrats need a fairly substantial lead in the polls to even break even in seat counts is disgusting.

Congratulations- you're not a patriot. You're a partisan.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Tgo01]

Hey genius:

If you lose the vote count by 11%, you SHOULD lose seats. And you should have the MINORITY of seats.

If you win by 1.8%, you shouldn't end up with an 8% seat count advantage of the other party.

Equitable electoral outcomes aren't about who won or lost more seats- they're about the proportion of seats vs the proportion of votes.

Please tell me you understand math well enough to get that.

You're a fucking retard if you don't understand how elections or representation works.

What does 20 million people in California all voting between two Democrats to fill 1 Senate seat have anything at all to do with 1 million people in Utah voting between a Republican and a Democrat for their representative in the Senate? Here's a hint; NOTHING. It is beyond retarded to think we should take a nation wide popular vote and divvy up House and Senate seats in such a fashion.

Seriously time4fun, do you even put two seconds of thought into your posts before hitting that reply button?

[Androidpk]

I hope she's just trolling us because I can't understand how someone could be so damn oblivious..

[Stolis]

"My" party has more votes than your party for the White House and the Senate.

You're putting your party loyalty over your loyalty to your nation's democracy. The fact that you just looked at those numbers and decided it was a good thing that the Democrats need a fairly substantial lead in the polls to even break even in seat counts is disgusting.

Congratulations- you're not a patriot. You're a partisan.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm only ashamed of how the education system never taught you how elections work. Bless your little angry, confused heart. For real though, you need a hug? Come here, arms wide open.

[Methais]

False equivalence. Clinton's e-mail server was (supposedly) a concern that her information wasn't as secure as we wanted it to be. The single most explosive accusation anyone could come up with was that she might have been hacked. There was never ANY evidence that she was intentionally trying to work with an enemy of the US.

With Trump, we're talking about concerns of active espionage and collusion to throw an election in exchange for working towards Russian interests. This is 100x worse than anything anyone accused Clinton of. And there was never anything close to the amount of evidence that we're finding out about Trump. Actively meeting with the Russians and consistently lying about it while filling high level US positions with friends of Russia and trying to undermine public faith in our intelligence agencies and free press- which happen to be the only two institutions that could uncover any wrongdoing if such a thing does exist.

At bare minimum, you should avoid dismissing this so flippantly.

You don't have the slightest clue just how lucky you are.

Lucky that Jedi mind tricks aren't a real thing because even the most noob padawan with the lowest midichlorian count in the galaxy would have you eating a bowl of Froot Loops out of your own ass without breaking a sweat. With a spoon and milk. 8g fat per serving whole milk. Not that hipster soy milk Whole Foods bullshit.

[Gelston]

I hope she's just trolling us because I can't understand how someone could be so damn oblivious..

I already called it. She is the reverse of ClydeR.

[Methais]

You need to learn to get over this. You lost. You were wrong.

What's great is how you are completely oblivious to the irony of this statement, especially coming from you. Holy fuck.



Hey genius:

If you lose the vote count by 11%, you SHOULD lose seats. And you should have the MINORITY of seats.

If you win by 1.8%, you shouldn't end up with an 8% seat count advantage of the other party.

Equitable electoral outcomes aren't about who won or lost more seats- they're about the proportion of seats vs the proportion of votes.

Please tell me you understand math well enough to get that.

HOLY FUCK HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

But for real lemme get back on topic here...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Gelston]

There is no fucking way time4fun is serious. She is as serious as ClydeR. I really just can't believe a human being is that fucking stupid.

[Tgo01]

There is no fucking way time4fun is serious. She is as serious as ClydeR. I really just can't believe a human being is that fucking stupid.

Yeah her post about how we should divvy up house and senate seats by a nationwide popular vote really has me thinking now. If she is trolling she is way more committed than Clyder, he posts like twice a week, not to mention time4fun is exactly like this on lnet too.

Bravo if you are trolling, time4fun. You really are playing the long con.

[Parkbandit]

Kinda. 2018 should feel like the past few years for the Republicans in upswell. They lose one of them in 2018.

Prognostication has never been one of your strong suits.

You shouldn't do it.

[Parkbandit]

You don't have the slightest clue just how lucky you are.

Lucky that Jedi mind tricks aren't a real thing because even the most noob padawan with the lowest midichlorian count in the galaxy would have you eating a bowl of Froot Loops out of your own ass without breaking a sweat. With a spoon and milk. 8g fat per serving whole milk. Not that hipster soy milk Whole Foods bullshit.

Holy shit, that was awesome.

[Parkbandit]

So, let me show you the problem with hard numbers. For context: after 2010, the GOP proceeded to gerrymander the heck out of the entire country (and began passing their voter suppression laws en mass) Keep that in mind while we look at these numbers:

Below is a chart demonstrating how each party's seat count in Congress related to their raw vote count. For example:

2006: Democrats got 52% of the vote and won 53.6% of seats- which means they had a net advantage of 1.6%. Meanwhile, Republicans got 45.6% of the vote and 46.4% of the seats, which is a net advantage of .8%. Comparing the parties, that year Democrats had a .8% advantage over Republicans when it came to electoral power per vote.

So let's look at the trend before and after the post-2010 gerrymander fest: (2006-2014 are combined H+ S)

2006: D: +1.6% R: +.8% Net: D +.8%
2008: D + 6.2% R: -1.4% Net: D: +7.6% (this was a massive outlier number in the data- even if you go back before 2006)

-----------------------------
2010: D: -.2% R: +4.2% Net: R +4.4% (This was the huge republican wave)

----------------------------- Gerrymandering begins

2012: D: -2.1% R: +6.9% Net: R: 9%
2014: D: -2.3% R: +6.2% Net: R: 8.5%
2016(H) D: -3.4% R:+ 6.3% Net: R: 8.9%
2016 (S) D: -5.5% R: +4.5% Net: R: 10%


Here's the entire 2016 Election breakdown (raw vote advantage vs seat/etc advantage)

President: Democrats: +2.8% Republicans win White House
Senate: Democrats: +11.13% Republicans win the Senate by 4 seats
House: Republicans: +1.1% Republicans win the House by 47 seats

In case you're curious- this is NOT what Democracy is supposed to look like, and it is most certainly not a sign that Democrats are on the decline. It's a sign that the entire process is stacked against Democrats right now and HEAVILY stacked in the GOP's favor. This is deeply unethical, and it's not something anyone should be applauding. Our system is VERY broken right now, and the GOP's efforts to break it in their favor have paid off in a vomit-inducing way.

This is a legitimate problem.

time4fun;

You did a great job with the bold typeface, the blue and red colors. The "-------" were a bit lazy, but it shows that you really, really tried.

As far as the "information" you presented, it was honestly the dumbest pile of shit anyone has posted on this forum in a very long time.

BUT, you tried, and for that, you deserve this award:
https://tosabarbell.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/tball2.jpg?w=520

Tell us again how you grouped all the votes for each state Senate race and proved gerrymandering? I loved that part.

[Shaps]

You don't have the slightest clue just how lucky you are.

Lucky that Jedi mind tricks aren't a real thing because even the most noob padawan with the lowest midichlorian count in the galaxy would have you eating a bowl of Froot Loops out of your own ass without breaking a sweat. With a spoon and milk. 8g fat per serving whole milk. Not that hipster soy milk Whole Foods bullshit.

Where the hell do you think up "eating a bowl of Fruit Loops out of your own ass" ? Lol.. That's a messed up image. Hahaha. And then whole milk, not soy milk? Lol.. That's just a visual I wish I'd never had hahaha.