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View Full Version : Should the US Help Russia Overthrow the Government of Ukraine?



ClydeR
02-19-2017, 08:54 PM
That seems to be what some of Trump's advisers advocate.


A week before Michael T. Flynn resigned as national security adviser, a sealed proposal was hand-delivered to his office, outlining a way for President Trump to lift sanctions against Russia.

Mr. Flynn is gone, having been caught lying about his own discussion of sanctions with the Russian ambassador. But the proposal, a peace plan for Ukraine and Russia, remains, along with those pushing it: Michael D. Cohen, the president’s personal lawyer, who delivered the document; Felix H. Sater, a business associate who helped Mr. Trump scout deals in Russia; and a Ukrainian lawmaker trying to rise in a political opposition movement shaped in part by Mr. Trump’s former campaign manager Paul D. Manafort.

More... (https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/19/us/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-russia.html)



Mr. Artemenko said he saw in Mr. Trump an opportunity to advocate a plan for peace in Ukraine — and help advance his own political career. Essentially, his plan would require the withdrawal of all Russian forces from eastern Ukraine. Ukrainian voters would decide in a referendum whether Crimea, the Ukrainian territory seized by Russia in 2014, would be leased to Russia for a term of 50 or 100 years.

The Ukrainian ambassador, Mr. Chaly, rejected a lease of that kind. “It is a gross violation of the Constitution,” he said in written answers to questions from The Times. “Such ideas can be pitched or pushed through only by those openly or covertly representing Russian interests.”

The reaction suggested why Mr. Artemenko’s project also includes the dissemination of “kompromat,” or compromising material, purportedly showing that Mr. Poroshenko and his closest associates are corrupt. Only a new government, presumably one less hostile to Russia, might take up his plan.

ClydeR
02-20-2017, 12:38 PM
In an interview with the Washington Post, Cohen says that he received the envelope but never gave it to anybody. He also says the told the intermediary that he could not deliver the envelope and that the intermediary would have to mail it. Why did he take it and at the same time say he would not deliver it?


Cohen, speaking with The Post on Sunday, acknowledged that the meeting took place and that he had left with the peace proposal in hand.

But Cohen said he did not take the envelope to the White House and did not discuss it with anyone. He called suggestions to the contrary “fake news.”

“I acknowledge that the brief meeting took place, but emphatically deny discussing this topic or delivering any documents to the White House and/or General Flynn,” Cohen said. He said he told the Ukrainian official that he could send the proposal to Flynn by writing him at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

More... (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/amid-russia-scrutiny-trump-associates-received-informal-ukraine-policy-proposal/2017/02/19/72b0b264-f6eb-11e6-be05-1a3817ac21a5_story.html)

Neveragain
02-20-2017, 01:37 PM
Not until trials are held and all the leakers and players are questioned under oath.

The he said she said bullshit is getting extra gay.