Trump to direct federal resources toward building a border wall on Wednesday [Archive]

drauz

01-25-2017, 03:02 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/24/politics/donald-trump-immigration-refugees/

Trump plans to issue two executive orders Wednesday during his visit to the Department of Homeland Security, according to a person familiar with the President's plan.

The first will direct the agency to begin construction of the border wall, as well as take steps to repair existing areas of fencing along the frontier between the US and Mexico. The order will also include a mandate to increase staff at Customs and Border Protection by 5,000 and alleviate the flood of migrants fleeing violence in Central America.

According to the person familiar with the plans, Trump's executive order will require DHS to publicly detail what aid is currently directed to Mexico, an indication of an eventual move toward redirecting some of that money to fund the wall's construction — and giving cover for a longstanding campaign promise to have Mexico pay for the structure.

A second order will work to eliminate so-called "sanctuary cities," where municipal governments refuse to hand over undocumented immigrants to federal authorities. That order will triple resources for Immigration and Custom Enforcement and direct the federal government to identify criminal aliens in the US.

Officials said Trump would wait until later in the week to take action on visas and refugees, potentially as early as Thursday.

drauz

01-25-2017, 03:10 AM

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/oXp8Th41rBs/hqdefault.jpg

Tgo01

01-25-2017, 04:23 AM

The order will also include a mandate to increase staff at Customs and Border Protection by 5,000 and alleviate the flood of migrants fleeing violence in Central America.

Just report the news, CNN, and keep the editorializing to yourself. This is why you lost. This is why you continue to lose.

Also Trump sure is doing a lot in his first week. I like it, despite the low crowd turnout for his inauguration.

Ceyrin

01-25-2017, 04:40 AM

I guess that staff increase is going to come after the freeze on federal hiring is lifted.

Candor

01-25-2017, 06:10 AM

time4fun

01-25-2017, 09:16 AM

Trump is going to eliminate sanctuary cities? Woohoo...bring out the popcorn...the libbies are going to have fits...

And later this week, Trump is apparently going to sign an Executive Order temporarily banning all refugees to the US.

Careful opening your newspaper the next few days - the opinion section may catch on fire...

$14b racism.

Oh, and he is reportedly bringing back torture.

A day after he locks down The Hill and prohibits agencies from talking to other agencies, the press, and Congress.

Great job GOP. America sure is looking great. Our very first Dictator!

Wrathbringer

01-25-2017, 09:28 AM

Tgo01

01-25-2017, 09:30 AM

$14b racism.

Your tears are so delicious.

Also you might want to brush up on your knowledge of dictators if you think closing sanctuary cities temporarily banning refugees makes one a "dictator."

The world should be so lucky if this is the worst dictators have done.

I often wonder how people who have actually lived in brutal dictatorships feel about reading stupid shit like this from stupid people such as yourself? Is this similar to how white liberals feel they need to "protect" blacks from the evil voter ID laws because white liberals think blacks are too stupid or poor to get to the DMV or know where it is?

Wrathbringer

01-25-2017, 09:31 AM

Your tears are so delicious.

I KNOW RIGHT?!

time4fun

01-25-2017, 09:32 AM

Lol you lost.

We're all losing right now.

He's also now threatening to send Federal troops to a major city and to enact voting changes.

In his first few days.

You people unleashed a monster and have given him more power than he could ever dream of.

Tgo01

01-25-2017, 09:33 AM

He's also now threatening to send Federal troops to a major city and to enact voting changes.

Are you just making up shit now or what?

Wrathbringer

01-25-2017, 09:35 AM

We're all losing right now.

He's also now threatening to send Federal troops to a major city and to enact voting changes.

In his first few days.

You people unleashed a monster and have given him more power than he could ever dream of.

I think he's doing a bang up job so far, personally. Again, your tears are the sweetest. Please continue posting.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 09:40 AM

$14b racism.

Oh, and he is reportedly bringing back torture.

A day after he locks down The Hill and prohibits agencies from talking to other agencies, the press, and Congress.

Great job GOP. America sure is looking great. Our very first Dictator!

Explain to me how it is racist to protect your nations borders? Are the Mexicans racist for doing the same with their southern border? People can still immigrate here, it just has to be legal. Of course, you all said you're violating federal law by harboring an illegal, so I guess you are just calling who ever you disagree with Racists.

He isn't bringing back torture, Mattis talked him out of that within an hour.

And yes, America is looking great. Maybe not for a criminal like yourself, but for the rest of us, yep.

Back

01-25-2017, 09:45 AM

The schadenfreude displayed by some members here reminds me of...

https://media.giphy.com/media/10llU9bXJED3NK/giphy.gif

Thats PB, Wraithbringer, and Tgo01.

Tgo01

01-25-2017, 09:50 AM

The schadenfreude displayed by some members here reminds me of...

https://media.giphy.com/media/10llU9bXJED3NK/giphy.gif

Thats PB, Wraithbringer, and Tgo01.

Not my fault people are acting like petulant children.

It's not like time4fun is even attempting to be rational about this.

14b dollar racism? Talk about complete and utter bullshit.

It was racist to disagree with anything Obama said or did and now apparently everything Trump does is racist.

I have no more patience for idiots.

time4fun

01-25-2017, 09:59 AM

Explain to me how it is racist to protect your nations borders? Are the Mexicans racist for doing the same with their southern border? People can still immigrate here, it just has to be legal. Of course, you all said you're violating federal law by harboring an illegal, so I guess you are just calling who ever you disagree with Racists.

He isn't bringing back torture, Mattis talked him out of that within an hour.

And yes, America is looking great. Maybe not for a criminal like yourself, but for the rest of us, yep.

Because we're only building a wall on one border?

Explain to me how it's fiscally responsible to spend $14b on a wall? And how threatening to send in Federal troops to Illinois against their will is respecting States' Rights?

Tgo01

01-25-2017, 10:00 AM

Because we're only building a wall on one border?

Hey dipshit, how many people cross the border illegally from Canada?

macgyver

01-25-2017, 10:04 AM

Hey dipshit, how many people cross the border illegally from Canada?

www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/officials-say-us-canada-border-becoming-more-dangerous.amp.html

pwned?

time4fun

01-25-2017, 10:06 AM

www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/officials-say-us-canada-border-becoming-more-dangerous.amp.html

pwned?

It's okay, it's smuggling and drug trafficking by white people. It's not as bad. They just smuggle things like sushi and tennis and traffick in prozac and Xanax.

Tgo01

01-25-2017, 10:08 AM

Explain to me how it's fiscally responsible to spend $14b on a wall?

14 billion dollars is one third of one percent of the ANNUAL budget. Yes, ANNUAL budget.

The federal debt is 1600 times greater than that 14 billion dollar figure.

I think our nation will survive. Well, it will survive the 14 billion dollar wall, it might not survive half of the country suddenly turning into frothing children.

Tgo01

01-25-2017, 10:09 AM

www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/officials-say-us-canada-border-becoming-more-dangerous.amp.html

pwned?

So how many? Is it anywhere near as comparable as the southern border?

Gelston

01-25-2017, 10:09 AM

It's okay, it's smuggling and drug trafficking by white people. It's not as bad. They just smuggle things like sushi and tennis and traffick in prozac and Xanax.

We basically have an insurgency occurring in Mexico. They have more annual killings than Afghanistan. We got that in Canada?

Since 2006, when the Mexico Drug War started, there have been up to 90,000 killed and 1.6 million displaced. When that occurs in Canada, I'll say build a wall there too. We don't need this shit to continue spilling across our border.

But no, it is totally racist to take measures to protect US Citizens.

Tgo01

01-25-2017, 10:10 AM

It's okay, it's smuggling and drug trafficking by white people. It's not as bad. They just smuggle things like sushi and tennis and traffick in prozac and Xanax.

lmao!

And there you have it! The left is so fucking crazy that they are seriously suggesting we build a wall on our NORTHERN border, just because Trump isn't doing it!

This is too much. I'm so going to enjoy these next 8 years. Thank you, time4fun, for being so fucking stupid it brings so much joy.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 10:17 AM

lmao!

And there you have it! The left is so fucking crazy that they are seriously suggesting we build a wall on our NORTHERN border, just because Trump isn't doing it!

This is too much. I'm so going to enjoy these next 8 years. Thank you, time4fun, for being so fucking stupid it brings so much joy.

I love how many Justices Trump'll probably get to nominate during his first 4 years.

2 over 80, 1 is 78, and then the current vacancy. One is a Reagan appointee, but the other 2 current members are Democrat appointed. We could see 7 Republican appointed Justices in our future.

Tgo01

01-25-2017, 10:20 AM

I love how many Justices Trump'll probably get to nominate during his first 4 years.

Oh man, the tears from the left will be especially delicious over that. Trump might even get to appointment more people than Obama.

drauz

01-25-2017, 10:26 AM

More than likely he is talking about FBI, ATF, etc. not "troops". Guess we'll have to see.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 10:27 AM

More than likely he is talking about FBI, ATF, etc. not "troops". Guess we'll have to see.

He can Federalize the national guard, but some states already put them on the border. Texas has a large percent of their Highway Patrol on border duty.

drauz

01-25-2017, 10:30 AM

He can Federalize the national guard, but some states already put them on the border. Texas has a large percent of their Highway Patrol on border duty.

When I think of Feds, I don't think of the National Guard. Maybe he is, it is certainly a possibility.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 10:36 AM

When I think of Feds, I don't think of the National Guard. Maybe he is, it is certainly a possibility.

There are a LOT of resources, Federal Law Enforcement is pretty damn big. He probably means increased Border Patrol, FBI, and DEA activity though. I guess he could squeeze the Coast Guard into the Rio Grande too.

But yeah, Texas has regular sent the NG to the border.

drauz

01-25-2017, 10:48 AM

There are a LOT of resources, Federal Law Enforcement is pretty damn big. He probably means increased Border Patrol, FBI, and DEA activity though. I guess he could squeeze the Coast Guard into the Rio Grande too.

But yeah, Texas has regular sent the NG to the border.

Oh I meant for my last few comments to be about Chicago.

RichardCranium

01-25-2017, 10:56 AM

I love how many Justices Trump'll probably get to nominate during his first 4 years.

2 over 80, 1 is 78, and then the current vacancy. One is a Reagan appointee, but the other 2 current members are Democrat appointed. We could see 7 Republican appointed Justices in our future.

If the GOP had put anyone but Trump forward, I would have voted Republican just for the Justice appointments.

I almost did anyway.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 11:05 AM

Oh I meant for my last few comments to be about Chicago.

Oh. Ha, yeah they aren't sending NG there. Probably increased FBI presence. They did it for New Orleans when the NOPD sucked a not being corrupt too.

time4fun

01-25-2017, 11:27 AM

More than likely he is talking about FBI, ATF, etc. not "troops". Guess we'll have to see.

I think the real issue is that not only should a President never say something so simultaneously vague and threatening, but that we shouldn't be trying to figure out whether or not Trump is going to impose the National Guard on a state against its will a week into his Presidency.

The stream of genuinely terrifying news that's coming out about the Administration is rapid.

There are reports that the administration is also considering requiring every EPA scientists's findings to be subject to review by the Trump administration. They are going to stamp out any mention of human impact on climate change. That's Bush-era stuff.

Tgo01

01-25-2017, 11:36 AM

I think the real issue is that not only should a President never say something so simultaneously vague and threatening, but that we shouldn't be trying to figure out whether or not Trump is going to impose the National Guard on a state against its will a week into his Presidency.

The stream of genuinely terrifying news that's coming out about the Administration is rapid.

There are reports that the administration is also considering requiring every EPA scientists's findings to be subject to review by the Trump administration. They are going to stamp out any mention of human impact on climate change. That's Bush-era stuff.

Our world is in peril!

time4fun, the spirit of dipshits, can no longer stand that her candidate lost.

She cries 5 times as hard as any other liberal.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 11:38 AM

I think the real issue is that not only should a President never say something so simultaneously vague and threatening, but that we shouldn't be trying to figure out whether or not Trump is going to impose the National Guard on a state against its will a week into his Presidency.

The stream of genuinely terrifying news that's coming out about the Administration is rapid.

There are reports that the administration is also considering requiring every EPA scientists's findings to be subject to review by the Trump administration. They are going to stamp out any mention of human impact on climate change. That's Bush-era stuff.

Here, let me sum up all your histrionics:

OMG! OMG! OMG! the Union has rejected our socialist utopian agenda WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Gelston

01-25-2017, 11:48 AM

I think the real issue is that not only should a President never say something so simultaneously vague and threatening, but that we shouldn't be trying to figure out whether or not Trump is going to impose the National Guard on a state against its will a week into his Presidency.

The stream of genuinely terrifying news that's coming out about the Administration is rapid.

There are reports that the administration is also considering requiring every EPA scientists's findings to be subject to review by the Trump administration. They are going to stamp out any mention of human impact on climate change. That's Bush-era stuff.

I don't find anything coming from the Administration to be terrifying. You folks would probably shriek in horror at your own shadow if Soros told you something bad about it.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 11:51 AM

When I think of Feds, I don't think of the National Guard. Maybe he is, it is certainly a possibility.

It wouldn't be without cause, murders are up 24% over last years numbers which was already a record setting year. The surrounding states are seeing these same gangs creep into their cities and are starting to experience the same violence.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 11:56 AM

Time4fun and her ilk need to listen to this guy (omg it may be mansplaining) but I really do suggest you listen to his words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKbQafBuCBc&t=603s

Gelston

01-25-2017, 12:01 PM

Why do you people keep linking videos? No one has time to watch that bullshit.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 12:13 PM

Why do you people keep linking videos? No one has time to watch that bullshit.

Because it takes less time than trying to put it into text and express exactly what is being said, I know 12 minutes is like forever.

Ceyrin

01-25-2017, 01:08 PM

Gelston

01-25-2017, 01:11 PM

The xenophobia bubble is on schedule! Finally I can have peace from all the people who are different than me!

Frankly, I'd rather have a moat filled with caimans. What are the logistics of turning USA into an island nation? I think this is the direction to head in.

If you've actually read anything anyone here has said, there is nothing xenophobic. No one has mentioned a problem with LEGAL immigration. Find an illegal British dude here, his ass should be deported too. Mexico is basically in a war right now. We don't need that coming over here.

Ceyrin

01-25-2017, 01:12 PM

If you've actually read anything anyone here has said, there is nothing xenophobic. No one has mentioned a problem with LEGAL immigration. Find an illegal British dude here, his ass should be deported too. Mexico is basically in a war right now. We don't need that coming over here.

Whatever. I still want a moat.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 01:25 PM

Whatever. I still want a moat.

It's called the Rio Grande.

Ceyrin

01-25-2017, 01:26 PM

It's called the Rio Grande.

Are you fucking stupid? That's a river, not a moat.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 01:28 PM

Are you fucking stupid? That's a river, not a moat.

If you use it as a moat, it is a moat. Moats can be natural or man made features.

Ceyrin

01-25-2017, 01:36 PM

It's in the wrong place, unless you really just want to keep those hippies from Cali/Wash off the east coast... Then they'll just go through canada with their sushi and xanax.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 01:39 PM

It's in the wrong place, unless you really just want to keep those hippies from Cali/Wash off the east coast... Then they'll just go through canada with their sushi and xanax.

Nah, just extend it from Texas along the border to the Pacific. Wouldn't need to go down to panama to get to the pacific on a ship anymore either, so win-win.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 01:46 PM

It's in the wrong place, unless you really just want to keep those hippies from Cali/Wash off the east coast... Then they'll just go through canada with their sushi and xanax.

Is xanax the hippie drug of choice nowadays? Maybe that's the problem, LSD at least gave a spiritual like experience....most the time.

zennsunni

01-25-2017, 01:56 PM

Derp. Can you guys seriously stop posting? You're cluttering up my "What's new?" tab and it's really annoying. You aren't accomplishing anything even remotely resembling a dialogue, so why don't you all just go masturbate in private instead? mmmK?

Gelston

01-25-2017, 02:03 PM

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 02:05 PM

Gelston

01-25-2017, 02:37 PM

If we moved it to a social forum would it make it easier for you to scroll down?

No, he is using that stupid "What's New" feature. He thinks his enjoyment of these forums is more important than anyone else's.

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 03:05 PM

Axhinde

01-25-2017, 03:09 PM

Man, you guys are brutal.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 03:10 PM

No, he is using that stupid "What's New" feature. He thinks his enjoyment of these forums is more important than anyone else's.

Well..he needs to understand that the country has literally been taken over by Hitler and it's important to talk about, he must be a NAZI and wants to silence us.

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 03:10 PM

The schadenfreude displayed by some members here reminds me of...

https://media.giphy.com/media/10llU9bXJED3NK/giphy.gif

Thats PB, Wraithbringer, and Tgo01.

I wouldn't be in the same room as you were taking a bath in. Sorry.

But when you and time4fun post, I think of this guy:

http://rs668.pbsrc.com/albums/vv41/sunshinealmario/6816_chicken-little-dancing.gif~c200

You and her should talk.. you're desperate for anything warm blooded to rub up on you and she might be the only one here that doesn't realize you are a functional retard.

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 03:12 PM

Man, you guys are brutal.

Sorry..after a year of her stupidity.. I have no further pity for her. She used that all up when I thought she was just mentally challenged.

Now I know she is.

tyrant-201

01-25-2017, 03:41 PM

Ceyrin

01-25-2017, 03:44 PM

Try the ignore feature. It's brilliant. They'll no longer show up in your feed.

But what about all the useful and helpful information they provide?!

Candor

01-25-2017, 05:01 PM

Man, you guys are brutal.

We're barely warmed up. Just wait...

rolfard

01-25-2017, 05:14 PM

http://i.imgur.com/KAmZAZa.jpg

Warriorbird

01-25-2017, 05:35 PM

But what about all the useful and helpful information they provide?!

It is funny how much they turn on each other when nobody talks to them. Or they make up fictional dialogues.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 05:42 PM

It is funny how much they turn on each other when nobody talks to them. Or they make up fictional dialogues.

It's even more funny when you pretend that you don't join in the mosh pit.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 05:42 PM

It is funny how much they turn on each other when nobody talks to them. Or they make up fictional dialogues.

Hi pot!

And to be fair, I've never "turned" on anyone. There aren't any "parties" on here. This is a message board that means nothing.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 05:42 PM

Shouldn't you be making samiche's lady?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHPmVvdf7Hc

(should have put this in the laugh section, was laughing to hard at WB to give a damn)

Warriorbird

01-25-2017, 05:43 PM

Hi pot!

Hey homer. What Democrats have I turned on lately?

Gelston

01-25-2017, 05:45 PM

Hey homer. What Democrats have I turned on lately?

I was referring to the fictional dialogues.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 05:47 PM

Also, it isn't "turning" on anyone. Not everyone is going to 100% believe the same shit as the next person. I, for one, think the voter fraud investigation by Trump is fucking retarded.

Warriorbird

01-25-2017, 05:47 PM

I was referring to the fictional dialogues.

Good way to avoid the other bit.

Also, it isn't "turning" on anyone. Not everyone is going to 100% believe the same shit as the next person. I, for one, think the voter fraud investigation by Trump is fucking retarded.

You're moderately sane. I mostly take you seriously for it. The operating principle is "bash somebody because they're wrong!" though even when no/less liberals will post because all the ids are now unconcealed by rep.

And to be fair, I've never "turned" on anyone. There aren't any "parties" on here. This is a message board that means nothing.

....and missing my point about you disagreeing with something when I say it but ignoring it when a Republican does.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 05:52 PM

Good way to avoid the other bit.

I was only addressing one point you made. That is all that is necessary. Sorry you wanted me to address both, but it doesn't take both as they are separate points.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 05:54 PM

Hey homer. What Democrats have I turned on lately?

I expect Republicans to argue with me, I'm more or less a pro-life Democrat. It's just the Democrats are so far out in left field now that they reside behind the fence.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 05:57 PM

I'm more or less a pro-life Democrat..

No, you really aren't.

Warriorbird

01-25-2017, 05:59 PM

I expect Republicans to argue with me, I'm more or less a pro-life Democrat. It's just the Democrats are so far out in left field now that they reside behind the fence.

This whole exchange just became totally worth it.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 06:05 PM

No, you really aren't.

I think I am.

Want to end the drug war, support public programs they just need to be reworked, support shit tons more money for schools, but needs restructuring, normally anti-war, just not in our current situation.

I know at the time being I sound far right, that's just because the left has gone full retard so I use the apposing language. I have voted Democrat almost my entire life.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 06:06 PM

normally anti-war

Democrats are responsible for far more war than Republicans.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 06:15 PM

Democrats are responsible for far more war than Republicans.

Won't argue that at all, though never in my lifetime.

Ceyrin

01-25-2017, 06:17 PM

I expect Republicans to argue with me, I'm more or less a pro-life Democrat. It's just the Democrats are so far out in left field now that they reside behind the fence.

Just because you identify as an apache attack helicopter, doesn't actually make it so.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 06:20 PM

Just because you identify as an apache attack helicopter, doesn't actually make it so.

Excuse me? I identify as an A-10 Warthog, thank you very much.

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 06:21 PM

Hi pot!

And to be fair, I've never "turned" on anyone. There aren't any "parties" on here. This is a message board that means nothing.

BUT RED REPUTATION MEANS SOMETHING!!!!!!!!

Warriorbird

01-25-2017, 06:24 PM

BUT RED REPUTATION MEANS SOMETHING!!!!!!!!

Yes. That you had a way to spew your worst so I could try to take you seriously. Not so much any more after seeing what came from you.

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 06:24 PM

Just because you identify as an apache attack helicopter, doesn't actually make it so.

Wait...

People can't self identify anymore? I thought that was the cool thing now?

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 06:26 PM

Yes. That you had a way to spew your worst so I could try to take you seriously. Not so much any more after seeing what came from you.

I've never, ever taken myself seriously here... why do you believe I want you to?

This forum is nothing but entertainment for me... the best entertainment was you crying for a year about the red rep I gave you.

Those tears rival time4fun's Trump is President meltdown.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 06:28 PM

Seriously, I'm being 100% honest here. Romney is the only time I have voted Republican and that was just out of spite.

Warriorbird

01-25-2017, 06:32 PM

I've never, ever taken myself seriously here... why do you believe I want you to?

This forum is nothing but entertainment for me... the best entertainment was you crying for a year about the red rep I gave you.

Those tears rival time4fun's Trump is President meltdown.

It wasn't about what you wanted. There's just not that much point in talking to somebody who's that fucked up

Methais

01-25-2017, 06:39 PM

$14b racism.

Oh, and he is reportedly bringing back torture.

A day after he locks down The Hill and prohibits agencies from talking to other agencies, the press, and Congress.

Great job GOP. America sure is looking great. Our very first Dictator!

Can you tell us what exactly makes someone a dictator? Please use specific points and not some gay shit like "It's what Trump is doing!"

Ceyrin

01-25-2017, 06:48 PM

Wait...

People can't self identify anymore? I thought that was the cool thing now?

Sure they can, but it doesn't make it a fact. See, some people have this weird idea that truth and fact are the same thing.

If it helps, just think of them as LARPers.

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 06:50 PM

It wasn't about what you wanted. There's just not that much point in talking to somebody who's that fucked up

And yet.. you still do.. even though you've claimed you stopped months ago.

Make yourself a safe space kid.. you're the only one attempting to make this forum something it's not: Serious.

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 06:51 PM

Sure they can, but it doesn't make it a fact. See, some people have this weird idea that truth and fact are the same thing.

If it helps, just think of them as LARPers.

That's not very Progressive of you.

Methais

01-25-2017, 06:55 PM

Shouldn't you be making samiche's lady?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHPmVvdf7Hc

(should have put this in the laugh section, was laughing to hard at WB to give a damn)

DID YOU SEE THE WAY HE OPPRESSED HER FOR HAVING A VAGINA!?!?!?!?!?

http://img.diply.com/article-images/a/11fc2838-544b-4fcb-8815-1e0bbbada704.gif?impolicy=desktop

Warriorbird

01-25-2017, 07:04 PM

And yet.. you still do.. even though you've claimed you stopped months ago.

Make yourself a safe space kid.. you're the only one attempting to make this forum something it's not: Serious.

There's a big difference between talking to you while taking you seriously and talking to you while not.

But, on the seriousness front, think about all that neg rep, all those posts, all these years.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 07:05 PM

There's a big difference between talking to you while taking you seriously and talking to you while not.

But, on the seriousness front, think about all that neg rep, all those posts, all these years.

Yes, you two have had a storied relationship. When are you going to propose?

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 07:10 PM

Can you tell us what exactly makes someone a dictator? Please use specific points and not some gay shit like "It's what Trump is doing!"

I like to think that if I was one it would be something like this:

8336

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 07:13 PM

DID YOU SEE THE WAY HE OPPRESSED HER FOR HAVING A VAGINA!?!?!?!?!?

http://img.diply.com/article-images/a/11fc2838-544b-4fcb-8815-1e0bbbada704.gif?impolicy=desktop

Even the reporter next to her was like, WTF seriously?

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 07:19 PM

There's a big difference between talking to you while taking you seriously and talking to you while not.

What part of "Don't take me seriously" is so difficult for you to understand? There isn't a single person on this forum I take seriously. At all.

But, on the seriousness front, think about all that neg rep, all those posts, all these years.

LOL!

The tears are STILL flowing!

Is this where you are going to try to add up all the time it took me to leave you those reps and multiply it by at least 100 to "prove" I spent too much time on upsetting you?

Dude, I would say let it go.. but I honestly don't ever want you to. Clearly it's affected you so deeply that a year after you found out some rep was from me, you are still upset by it.

Thank you. It illustrates exactly why I spend all those hours and hours and hours crafting special negative reputation comments specifically for you.

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 07:21 PM

Yes, you two have had a storied relationship. When are you going to propose?

I would clearly be the man in the relationship... but I only like women in control of their emotions.

He probably needs a strong man in his life.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 07:24 PM

I would clearly be the man in the relationship... but I only like women in control of their emotions.

He probably needs a strong man in his life.

This is 2017, women can propose now.

Methais

01-25-2017, 07:27 PM

The Hurt Feelings trait gets a 10x modifier when used in combination with red rep, and also receives an additional 5x bonus if used anonymously.

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 07:29 PM

The Hurt Feelings trait gets a 10x modifier when used in combination with red rep, and also receives an additional 5x bonus if used anonymously.

Holy shit, he's fucking capppppppped.

crb

01-25-2017, 07:46 PM

$14b racism.

Oh, and he is reportedly bringing back torture.

A day after he locks down The Hill and prohibits agencies from talking to other agencies, the press, and Congress.

Great job GOP. America sure is looking great. Our very first Dictator!

Hypocrisy. Oh, you don't like the executive branch having power to do these things? Why did you take an 8 year hiatus from complaining about it?

http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/14/ive-got-a-pen-and-ive-got-a-phone-obamas

crb

01-25-2017, 07:48 PM

14 billion dollars is one third of one percent of the ANNUAL budget. Yes, ANNUAL budget.

The federal debt is 1600 times greater than that 14 billion dollar figure.

I think our nation will survive. Well, it will survive the 14 billion dollar wall, it might not survive half of the country suddenly turning into frothing children.

I don't get it really, the left is always so enamored of federal spending on infrastructure and creating blue collar jobs - except if those workers work on walls, pipelines, or in the defense industry.

Ardwen

01-25-2017, 08:23 PM

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 08:28 PM

There isn't a federally funded mega=project that came in anywhere near budget, a good example is the Big Dig in Boston, 2.5 billion dollar estimate when the bonds ar epiad of it will hit nearly 40 billion in actual costs. Its is currently at 26 or so billion.

I don't disagree. There was some movement to get a high speed rail between Orlando and Tampa a few years ago that was put to a vote. It failed and ended up going to California instead.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-cost-overruns-20170106-story.html

And that's not even why I voted against it.. it was because it would end up costing us money to keep it running year after year.

I have some faith that President Trump can do at least one thing right.. negotiate the deal.

Latrinsorm

01-25-2017, 08:49 PM

It wouldn't be without cause, murders are up 24% over last years numbers which was already a record setting year. The surrounding states are seeing these same gangs creep into their cities and are starting to experience the same violence.The record for Chicago murders occurred in 1974. The record for Chicago murders per capita was in 1992.
Because it takes less time than trying to put it into text and express exactly what is being said, I know 12 minutes is like forever.It takes less time to read than to listen too. Your prospective audience is more than one person (i.e. you), logically you should take the time to transcribe the video.

Ardwen

01-25-2017, 08:49 PM

you actually expect him to get Mexico to pay for it?

Gelston

01-25-2017, 08:51 PM

you actually expect him to get Mexico to pay for it?

I don't expect Mexico to willingly pay for it. I fully expect tariffs and remittances to pay for it.

Latrinsorm

01-25-2017, 09:04 PM

I don't expect Mexico to willingly pay for it. I fully expect tariffs and remittances to pay for it.Good luck with that.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 09:06 PM

Good luck with that.

It'll piss the banks off, there are nearly 60b in remittance payments a year, 20ish to Mexico. We could pay for the wall portions of that and tariffs.

Ardwen

01-25-2017, 09:09 PM

As the markets in Venezuala prove, people are resourceful, you tax their transfers they will find a different way to move money, thre is no shortage of perfectly legal ways and several that are nearly untraceable.

Not to mention Trump is owned by the banks, I mean he was how much debt again?

Gelston

01-25-2017, 09:12 PM

Ardwen

01-25-2017, 09:17 PM

Can you prove that? as he refuse to actually show any paperwork there is zero chance you can, and just because he is worth more doesn't mean he doesn't have monsterous debt.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 09:20 PM

Can you prove that? as he refuse to actually show any paperwork there is zero chance you can, and just because he is worth more doesn't mean he doesn't have monsterous debt.

I'll point to one of the more liberal sites: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/12/guide-donald-trump-debt

The Don is worth 4.5 billion, so while not a perfect 4 billion more, it rounds.

Ardwen

01-25-2017, 09:21 PM

That 4.5 billion is without the 1.5 to 1.6 billion in debt he forget to put on his paperwork at the very least. Un;ess you think that debt is an alternative fact too?

Gelston

01-25-2017, 09:23 PM

That 4.5 billion is without the 1.5 to 1.6 billion in debt he forget to put on his paperwork at the very least. Un;ess you think that debt is an alternative fact too?

The other debt isn't purely his debt, so he isn't on the hook for 100% of it. Even if he was, and he decided to pay every penny, he is still a billionaire.

rolfard

01-25-2017, 09:40 PM

Alternately factual, he's liable for a number of suits worth twice his wealth. Mind blown

Ardwen

01-25-2017, 09:42 PM

He also massively undervalues his golf courses by claiming they are farms to cheat he locals out of tax dollars. So hey maybe he has a spare trillion in alternative fact valuations!

Gelston

01-25-2017, 09:42 PM

Alternately factual, he's liable for a number of suits worth twice his wealth. Mind blown

He is liable for 9 billion or one of his corporations is?

Ardwen

01-25-2017, 09:46 PM

Gelston

01-25-2017, 09:48 PM

Originally known as Ansar Beit al-Maqdis (Supporters of Jerusalem), the group changed its name to Wilayat Sinai — Sinai Province — and pledged allegiance to ISIS in November 2014. It is the most active insurgent group in Egypt, and has carried out dozens of attacks that have killed hundreds of soldiers and police officers

Sounds like ISIS to me, because if that doesn't mean ISIS then half the originally countries also aren't bases for ISIS just other groups pledged to them

Okay, fine. Lets ban the Philippines too. They pledge allegiance to ISIS, but they ain't ISIS. There are several countries in Africa with the same deal. These groups are all inclined on causing terrorism in their home countries. ISIS actual is aimed at causing it abroad, such as here.

Anyways, I already told you why those three nations shouldn't be included. You may say "But Trump!!!!!" but there are perfectly legitimate reason WHY we want these countries to remain diplomatically happy with us.

Ardwen

01-25-2017, 09:50 PM

You can't be serious. Every one of these groups is aiding and participating in terrorism worldwide. Again Trump has claimed the Saudi's fund ISIS but its okay for them to visit? Hell the Saudi's rent from him.

Gelston

01-25-2017, 09:52 PM

Gelston

01-25-2017, 09:53 PM

More on to the point though, are you then in favor of the immigration bans? You want to see them expanded?

Ardwen

01-25-2017, 09:57 PM

Gelston

01-25-2017, 10:00 PM

If he wants to ban potential terrorist he needs to ban them all, and not clearly avoid his business partners, and no I am not in favor, if we'd have had these bands in 30s Trump wouldn't be an American, there are lots of people in lots of scary places that could use our help, of course at the pace we are going we'll be the ones in need of help soon enough.

I don't think it is due to Business interests, but to each his own. Turkey definitely not. Also, unless they banned Scotland in the '30s, we'd have Trump here. His Germanic ancestry is on his father's side, who was born here.

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 10:29 PM

you actually expect him to get Mexico to pay for it?

Yup.

I don't expect them to pay for it next month.. but I have faith in Trump getting them to pay a lion share of it.

Parkbandit

01-25-2017, 10:31 PM

That 4.5 billion is without the 1.5 to 1.6 billion in debt he forget to put on his paperwork at the very least. Un;ess you think that debt is an alternative fact too?

Dude,

You are trying too hard at this point.

He has already fulfilled the financial disclosure process to run for President.

He's not in debt.

Sorry.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 10:54 PM

The record for Chicago murders occurred in 1974. The record for Chicago murders per capita was in 1992.It takes less time to read than to listen too. Your prospective audience is more than one person (i.e. you), logically you should take the time to transcribe the video.

Seriously, what was there like 780 (these are record numbers) or so murders in Chicago last year? it's up 24% compared to this time last year. All I'm saying, it's leaking into the bordering states communities, we're not going to put up with it.

I'm not going to transcribe the fucking video, it's not my video, it's not my wheelhouse. They can watch or not I don't give a fuck, it's not often your opponent hands out solid advice.

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 11:02 PM

Ardwen, these rogue twitter accounts you're talking about, is there any way to verify if they are even actual employees? If there is no way to verify they are "real" they could easily just be protesters. I've dealt with some of these people, some of these people are just homeless fucks sitting in a McDonalds.

Ardwen

01-25-2017, 11:10 PM

Seems unlikely homeless people in McDonalds would be tweeting EPA eetc etc info

Ardwen

01-25-2017, 11:11 PM

Actually he is in debt, even he admits he has large loans, that is debt. Unless you think he lied about owing hundreds of millions of dollars to people?

Neveragain

01-25-2017, 11:12 PM

:shrug:

rolfard

01-25-2017, 11:13 PM

#trumpdebt
http://stuffsucks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/TrollFaceForm2.pngor

Gelston

01-25-2017, 11:15 PM

Actually he is in debt, even he admits he has large loans, that is debt. Unless you think he lied about owing hundreds of millions of dollars to people?

He has debt, he isn't in the red. He has more assets than he owes.

drauz

01-25-2017, 11:16 PM

The record for Chicago murders occurred in 1974. The record for Chicago murders per capita was in 1992.

A large problem is their police detectives seems to be getting fewer and fewer(1,151 in 2009 to 863 as of July 2016), causing the clearance rate to jump from 70% in 1991 to only 21% in 2016. Something needs to change! I don't see the former Obama Chief of Staff asking Trump for help though. Even though it seems they needs it badly.

rolfard

01-25-2017, 11:17 PM

#Trumpsplaining
http://2static.fjcdn.com/funny_gifs/Mfw+graduation+day_bba428_5957094.gif

Warriorbird

01-25-2017, 11:43 PM

A large problem is their police detectives seems to be getting fewer and fewer(1,151 in 2009 to 863 as of July 2016), causing the clearance rate to jump from 70% in 1991 to only 21% in 2016. Something needs to change! I don't see the former Obama Chief of Staff asking Trump for help though. Even though it seems they needs it badly.

An easier solution would be addressing our awful drug laws.

With that said... I'm not seeing Rahm Emanuel getting much help from Donald Trump. A Chicago full of murders suits him just fine. Though I'm curious about the frozen money for Flint.

drauz

01-26-2017, 12:25 AM

An easier solution would be addressing our awful drug laws.

With that said... I'm not seeing Rahm Emanuel getting much help from Donald Trump. A Chicago full of murders suits him just fine. Though I'm curious about the frozen money for Flint.

He said he wanted to send in Feds to help..

Gelston

01-26-2017, 12:28 AM

tyrant-201

01-26-2017, 12:44 AM

Yup.

I don't expect them to pay for it next month.. but I have faith in Trump getting them to pay a lion share of it.

:lol2:

tyrant-201

01-26-2017, 12:48 AM

Did you know it is the President's job to enforce, not create, legislation? I know, after 8 years of Obama it is hard to recall how the system is set up.

We seem to have a good start on enforcing legislation with all the executive orders coming out this week. Or.. do executive orders create legislation? Hm..

Warriorbird

01-26-2017, 02:30 AM

A serious terrorist threat has been made:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3CF05lVQAAe5hZ.jpg

Parkbandit

01-26-2017, 10:37 AM

Actually he is in debt, even he admits he has large loans, that is debt. Unless you think he lied about owing hundreds of millions of dollars to people?

By that definition, you are correct. By that definition, I just bought a townhouse with cash, but because I still have $600 on a credit card, I too am in debt.

If you look at his assets and take away his liabilities, you would see he's flush with money.

Methais

01-26-2017, 11:59 AM

By that definition, you are correct. By that definition, I just bought a townhouse with cash, but because I still have $600 on a credit card, I too am in debt.

If you look at his assets and take away his liabilities, you would see he's flush with money.

Mark Zuckerberg has a mortgage. THAT MUST MEAN HE'S IN BIG FINANCIAL TROUBLE!

Or it just means he's smart at managing money:
http://themortgagereports.com/21788/why-mark-zuckerberg-has-a-mortgage

Ardwen

01-26-2017, 03:07 PM

owing a mortgage is not the same as owing hundreds of millions or more to foreign banks and corporations that deal in bulk debt and you know it.

Parkbandit

01-26-2017, 03:11 PM

owing a mortgage is not the same as owing hundreds of millions or more to foreign banks and corporations that deal in bulk debt and you know it.

It's all relative.

Gelston

01-26-2017, 03:13 PM

owing a mortgage is not the same as owing hundreds of millions or more to foreign banks and corporations that deal in bulk debt and you know it.

Except they DON'T own him, because what leverage do they have? If he paid it ALL back, he'd still be a billionaire.

Ardwen

01-26-2017, 03:35 PM

Witout knowing the terms of the debt service you have no idea if that's true, not to mention Trump never pays his debts he litigates them, Not to mention all estimates of his wealth are guesses since he doesn't allow anyone to see the paperwork. Jimmy Carter divest his peanut farm over potential conflict of interest issues, and was still investigated by a republican special prosecutor over it, If a peanut farm is an issue a planet spanning empire clearly should be.

Gelston

01-26-2017, 04:09 PM

Candor

01-26-2017, 05:08 PM

not to mention Trump never pays his debts he litigates them

C'mon Ardwen, you're smarter than to use absolutes. If you want to say Trump uses litigation too often regarding his debts then sure we can discuss that, but to state that he "never pays his debts" is nonsense.

time4fun

01-26-2017, 06:48 PM

C'mon Ardwen, you're smarter than to use absolutes. If you want to say Trump uses litigation too often regarding his debts then sure we can discuss that, but to state that he "never pays his debts" is nonsense.

So first, Ardwen's point wasn't predicated on an actual 100% rate, despite his wording.

Second, Ardwen's point that Trump has made a business model out of refusing to pay what he owes is a legitimate one. This is a man who once called himself "The King of Debt" and who has not only been involved in thousands of lawsuits, but he's been sued several times- including several class action suits- for his failure to pay off his debts and instead resorting to intimidation tactics- legal and otherwise. This is also a man who has a long history of making shady deals (AND WHO IS UNDER INVESTIGATION FOR HELPING THE RUSSIANS INTERFERE WITH OUR ELECTION) that bent- if not broke the law for his own benefit. (Cuba anyone?) Pretending like all of that is just wiped away because you gave a psychopath more power is ridiculous. And now, when he decides not to pay someone back, it's a fucking international political incident. And when he decides it's shady deal time...it's worse.

And the real issue here is that you fucking fools voted for a monster and are now trying to pretend he's something he's not. The shit storm of crazy and scary things coming out of the White House is real. The damage to our reputation and to fragile alliances around the world is real. The debt he's about to spiral out of control on something as batshit insane as it is ineffective (Really? We can't spiral the debt to feed hungry children?) is real. And the people who will die from lack of care once the ACA is gone and no lifetime cap ban is in its place are real- at least for now.

Gelston

01-26-2017, 07:03 PM

you should have put this in the smile political thread. This thread is about Ardwen creating hypothetical situations to bash Trump with and Time4fun trying to replace Back as the resident PC moron.

Neveragain

01-26-2017, 07:07 PM

Will do, the temptation was just too great.

Candor

01-27-2017, 12:01 AM

As someone who is neither a blind Trump supporter nor a Democrat, I can see it's going to be a crazy four years if I dare to express any opinions.

drauz

01-27-2017, 12:02 AM

As someone who is neither a blind Trump supporter nor a Democrat, I can see it's going to be a crazy four years if I dare to express any opinions.

Only if you're unable to curse at people.

BigWorm

01-27-2017, 03:09 AM

I fully expect tariffs and remittances to pay for it.

Uh do you realize how tariffs work? You and other Americans would be the ones paying the tariff, not Mexico.

Neveragain

01-27-2017, 04:04 AM

Uh do you realize how tariffs work? You and other Americans would be the ones paying the tariff, not Mexico.

If the tax increase raises cost of goods in return lowering demand to the point of those manufacturing jobs coming back home, it would be well worth it. The Peso taking a hit and the dollar gaining suggests investors feel the same.

We really shouldn't be purchasing products from countries that pay slave wages.

time4fun

01-27-2017, 09:01 AM

Uh do you realize how tariffs work? You and other Americans would be the ones paying the tariff, not Mexico.

Americans generally don't understand economics

Parkbandit

01-27-2017, 09:23 AM

Americans generally don't understand economics

Some don't even understand how elections are won or lost......

Tgo01

01-27-2017, 10:30 AM

Uh do you realize how tariffs work? You and other Americans would be the ones paying the tariff, not Mexico.

The reason many companies move their manufacturing to Mexico and ship the product back to the US is because it's cheaper to do so because Mexico doesn't pay their workers nearly as much as they pay American workers. Have you ever seen a company move their manufacturing to a different country to save money and this money was passed on to the consumer in the form of cheaper goods? I haven't.

Slapping tariffs on these countries would encourage them to move their factories back to the US, or not move their factories in the first place, because it wouldn't save as much money, and since the cheaper costs were never passed along to the consumer anyways the consumer wouldn't really notice a difference, but the workers would.

And if companies sending their products back to the US pass along the costs of the tariffs to the consumer in the form of higher prices then the consumer will buy the cheaper stuff that is (presumably) made in the US which would further encourage companies to setup shop in the US to avoid paying the tariffs.

This is part of the reason so many foreign companies setup factories in China, to avoid paying the high tariffs China imposes on imports.

Tgo01

01-27-2017, 10:30 AM

Americans generally don't understand economics

We're all still waiting for you to explain how elections work.

rolfard

01-27-2017, 11:11 AM

What if the factories move to Mexico and ship the products to cuba?

Neveragain

01-27-2017, 11:16 AM

What if the factories move to Mexico and ship the products to cuba?

I think Cuba would probably tax the shit out of those goods as well, they are a communist ran dictatorship.
:shrug:

Wrathbringer

01-27-2017, 11:23 AM

Americans generally don't understand economics

Would you shut your know it all mouth pls thx.

Neveragain

01-27-2017, 11:29 AM

Whirlin

01-27-2017, 11:58 AM

The reason many companies move their manufacturing to Mexico and ship the product back to the US is because it's cheaper to do so because Mexico doesn't pay their workers nearly as much as they pay American workers. Have you ever seen a company move their manufacturing to a different country to save money and this money was passed on to the consumer in the form of cheaper goods? I haven't.

Slapping tariffs on these countries would encourage them to move their factories back to the US, or not move their factories in the first place, because it wouldn't save as much money, and since the cheaper costs were never passed along to the consumer anyways the consumer wouldn't really notice a difference, but the workers would.

And if companies sending their products back to the US pass along the costs of the tariffs to the consumer in the form of higher prices then the consumer will buy the cheaper stuff that is (presumably) made in the US which would further encourage companies to setup shop in the US to avoid paying the tariffs.

This is part of the reason so many foreign companies setup factories in China, to avoid paying the high tariffs China imposes on imports.
Your statements assume an elastic market with infinite competitors, where the additional price of a tariff will cause a pricing war between suppliers and drive down overall profits for the companies. However, we typically observe that instances where taxes are raised on a particular good/service, that the price to consumers is simply increased, rather than businesses becoming more competitive on margins. A perfect example of this would be the cigarette market.

When we look at an entire class of products where the manufacturing typically occurs outside the US, for instance, Cell phones (I know the iphone was used as an example), the likelihood of cost competition is unlikely, and the tax will be passed onto the consumer.

Lastly, The method for determination of a percentage such as 20% needs to be further established. Is it a 20% value-add tax? 20% increase on cost of materials used? 20% based on final retail sale? There tend to be a lot of loopholes around tariffs. A common business study that we used to review was manufacturing in the EU would use VAT for EU Taxation purposes, but this was not the case in Ireland. Since Ireland had advantageous tax handling of manufacturing and export processes, things like cell phones would be produced in Eastern EU, whereas the evaluation of the value added by that assembly process was deemed minimal, but then the process was completed with a relatively minor completion step in Ireland, which added 90% of the base cost in value-add, bypassing most manufacturing cost VAT allocation to the lowest country in the manufacturing process.

You're right, theoretically, it should have an impact, but there are individual markets within the overall scope of manufacturing that will end up having costs mitigated by consumers, and overall consumer buying power will be reduced by the move.

Gelston

01-27-2017, 12:06 PM

Uh do you realize how tariffs work? You and other Americans would be the ones paying the tariff, not Mexico.

Or, to keep their prices competitive, they eat the cost.

Tgo01

01-27-2017, 12:06 PM

However, we typically observe that instances where taxes are raised on a particular good/service, that the price to consumers is simply increased, rather than businesses becoming more competitive on margins.

That's what I said. If companies are going to pass on the tariff in the form of increased prices on the final product to consumers then this would hurt the company in the form of more consumers seeking out cheaper products, products made in the US that aren't subject to the tariff. Or if the cost of the tariff plus the cheaper labor makes the final product competitive to prices of products made in the US then they lost their cost savings advantage by moving to Mexico in the first place.

Neveragain

01-27-2017, 12:16 PM

Your statements assume an elastic market with infinite competitors, where the additional price of a tariff will cause a pricing war between suppliers and drive down overall profits for the companies. However, we typically observe that instances where taxes are raised on a particular good/service, that the price to consumers is simply increased, rather than businesses becoming more competitive on margins. A perfect example of this would be the cigarette market.

When we look at an entire class of products where the manufacturing typically occurs outside the US, for instance, Cell phones (I know the iphone was used as an example), the likelihood of cost competition is unlikely, and the tax will be passed onto the consumer.

Lastly, The method for determination of a percentage such as 20% needs to be further established. Is it a 20% value-add tax? 20% increase on cost of materials used? 20% based on final retail sale? There tend to be a lot of loopholes around tariffs. A common business study that we used to review was manufacturing in the EU would use VAT for EU Taxation purposes, but this was not the case in Ireland. Since Ireland had advantageous tax handling of manufacturing and export processes, things like cell phones would be produced in Eastern EU, whereas the evaluation of the value added by that assembly process was deemed minimal, but then the process was completed with a relatively minor completion step in Ireland, which added 90% of the base cost in value-add, bypassing most manufacturing cost VAT allocation to the lowest country in the manufacturing process.

You're right, theoretically, it should have an impact, but there are individual markets within the overall scope of manufacturing that will end up having costs mitigated by consumers, and overall consumer buying power will be reduced by the move.

Will reducing the EPA impact by 75% (sounds like pie in the sky number to me but that's the number being thrown around) make it easier for small business's to start up and compete?

Obviously you have a deeper understanding of economics than I, which is why I'm asking. (I just apply cost and demand laws to the idea and go from there, it usually follows course)

Whirlin

01-27-2017, 01:39 PM

Will reducing the EPA impact by 75% (sounds like pie in the sky number to me but that's the number being thrown around) make it easier for small business's to start up and compete?

Obviously you have a deeper understanding of economics than I, which is why I'm asking. (I just apply cost and demand laws to the idea and go from there, it usually follows course)
Kind of like the tariff, I would say theoretically, yes, it would help spur new companies/business. I'm sure EPA regulations are more far reaching than I'm familiar with... When I hear EPA, I think of chemical emissions from manufacturing plants and auto gas mileage requirements, so most of that is curbed through that lens.

So we need to consider the types of businesses, and their start-up costs that would be impacted by the EPA's regulations. Chemical or Manufacturing plants? That shit is expensive. And it's not ONLY because of the EPA, it's also OSHA, state/local requirements, etc. I think most of the environmental protection requirements would likely be imposed on the local level (like that Saracha pepper air fiasco?). I mean, would you want to work in a chemical chlorine plant that only cost $10,000 to start up? Or would you want that to be built half a mile from your house?

When we look back over the last 20 years, when was the last time you saw a new oil refining/gas company get stood up? I can't even think of the last new domestic gas company... The newest company I can think of is BP, which is just a foreign company that started operations in the US. In today's market, I wouldn't exactly consider something like industrial cleaner chemical manufacturing to be a new start-up company.

So, in the context of small businesses. No... I don't think this will help them.

I would perceive the main benefit will be to companies that are already in an industry heavily regulated by the EPA, like gas/chemical companies. Secondly, it should also enable companies who are seeking a more vertical integration to expand into that business. So if look at a company like Johnson and Johnson, they typically purchase their chemical components from companies like Arch Chemicals for their personal care and cleaning line of products, but this may enable that company to expand into the chemical manufacturing processes.

So, it COULD create more competition in those EPA-regulated industries, could create jobs, but I don't think it would be by new blood/companies, it would be more of expansion of existing companies.

BigWorm

01-27-2017, 05:01 PM

Or, to keep their prices competitive, they eat the cost.
This demonstrates a misunderstanding of basic economics. They are already competing against the rest of the world with tremendous pressure to reduce costs. It would be impossible for them to absorb this cost directly.

This is also likely to start a trade war. Mexico is our third largest trading partner and we export almost as much as we import from them. A retaliatory tariff would be an obvious response. This would have a detrimental effect on all companies that export goods to Mexico. Both of these tariffs would be bad for US economic growth.

One good way to get around a tariff though would be to build factories in Mexico to avoid importing. If Mexico retaliates with a reciprocal tariff, this policy would basically have exactly the opposite if the desired effect.

Kembal

01-27-2017, 05:06 PM

Or, to keep their prices competitive, they eat the cost.

Really unlikely in most cases. If the tariff was 5%, maybe. But 20%? No way. It's rare for an importing company to have sky-high margins to begin with.

Methais

01-27-2017, 06:42 PM

And the real issue here is that you fucking fools voted for a monster

Not sure where you've been for the past couple months but Hillary lost.

Only if you're unable to curse at people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GGL0qGk5lA

BigWorm

01-27-2017, 07:23 PM

Have you ever seen a company move their manufacturing to a different country to save money and this money was passed on to the consumer in the form of cheaper goods? I haven't.

Open your eyes. This happens all the time. Have you ever bought anything at Walmart? Probably something produced for cheap in China (or Mexico or Vietnam or Bangladesh). By no means do I think that companies are doing this for altruistic reasons; low cost is a competitive advantage so this gets passed on to consumers regularly.

You may have heard of this thing that conservatives used to pretend to like called capitalism. Trump's stated and proposed policies are a lot more like mercantilism. Many of these policies have been tried before and failed. One of the things that made America different was our commitment to capitalism. I think this is a huge step backwards, but as you may be aware, he won. Personally I feel like there are a lot of problems with capitalism, but it is better than everything else I've seen tried.

Tgo01

01-27-2017, 07:26 PM

Open your eyes. This happens all the time. Have you ever bought anything at Walmart? Probably something produced for cheap in China (or Mexico or Vietnam or Bangladesh). By no means do I think that companies are doing this for altruistic reasons; low cost is a competitive advantage so this gets passed on to consumers regularly.

No doubt in my mind it was produced cheap, doesn't stop it from being wildly expensive all things considered.

A simple piece of plastic shaped into a bathroom garbage can and they want 10 bucks for it. How much would this cost if it were produced in the US? 20 bucks?

BigWorm

01-27-2017, 07:38 PM

Impossible to say. It's not like you can teleport a factory, the surrounding infrastructure, and all its workers to another country. For example, China has a huge infrastructure and workforce advantage over the US for advanced manufacturing. One of the reasons its not at all feasible to move something like iPhone production to the US is the lack of people trained for the production line, especially engineers. China's labor cost advantages come not just from the lower price of unskilled labor (which is actually high compared to a place like Vietnam or Bangladesh), but also a large base of skilled workers available and willing to work for middle class wages. Their advanced infrastructure and manufacturing technology also factor in, which the USA has been reluctant of investing in for the last few decades. Trump says he wants to invest in infrastructure, but dumping $20+ billion into a fucking wall doesn't do anything to improve this situation.

BigWorm

01-27-2017, 07:54 PM

Will reducing the EPA impact by 75% (sounds like pie in the sky number to me but that's the number being thrown around) make it easier for small business's to start up and compete?

Regulation for most small business and especially those just starting up mainly means visiting city hall and some online forms for state registration. Things get a lot more complicated once you hire an employee, but most of the onerous regulations are also at the state and local level. This is absolutely a problem for small businesses (probably in their top 3 for most), but very few have any interaction with the EPA.

Latrinsorm

01-27-2017, 08:36 PM

We're seriously debating whether tariffs work. Yikes.
Seriously, what was there like 780 (these are record numbers) or so murders in Chicago last year?Those are NOT record numbers. The record is 970, set in 1974.
I'm not going to transcribe the fucking video, it's not my video, it's not my wheelhouse. They can watch or not I don't give a fuck, it's not often your opponent hands out solid advice.I know you don't care - you couldn't even be bothered to google "Chicago murders 1974". I'm just telling you the facts. Your choice to use video instead of text puts the burden on your audience, you should not be surprised when they choose not to take it up.
A large problem is their police detectives seems to be getting fewer and fewer(1,151 in 2009 to 863 as of July 2016), causing the clearance rate to jump from 70% in 1991 to only 21% in 2016. Something needs to change! I don't see the former Obama Chief of Staff asking Trump for help though. Even though it seems they needs it badly.The justice system throughout the country needs an overhaul - universal surveillance.

Tgo01

01-27-2017, 08:39 PM

We're seriously debating whether tariffs work. Yikes.

They work for China.

BigWorm

01-27-2017, 08:55 PM

They work for China.

China has barriers to foreign imports, but their tariffs are not really one of them. Their tariffs are pretty much in line with other developing countries. Since they are both members of the WTO, the US pays the same Chinese import tariff as any other country lacking a free trade agreement with China.

Tgo01

01-27-2017, 09:32 PM

China has barriers to foreign imports, but their tariffs are not really one of them. Their tariffs are pretty much in line with other developing countries.

China now has the second largest economy in the world, I think it's time to stop referring to them as a "developing country."

China has high tariffs compared to other economies of this scale.

~Rocktar~

01-27-2017, 10:09 PM

Regulation for most small business and especially those just starting up mainly means visiting city hall and some online forms for state registration. Things get a lot more complicated once you hire an employee, but most of the onerous regulations are also at the state and local level. This is absolutely a problem for small businesses (probably in their top 3 for most), but very few have any interaction with the EPA.

Unless you want to use a petroleum product in your business in any significant quantity. Or if you want to produce an exhaust gas emission, waste food or food byproduct, handle any chemical labeled as toxic, transport chemicals and a myriad of other things that are highly regulated by the EPA.

BigWorm

01-27-2017, 11:06 PM

China has high tariffs compared to other economies of this scale.

Enlighten me, how much are the tariffs?

BigWorm

01-27-2017, 11:12 PM

Unless you want to use a petroleum product in your business in any significant quantity. Or if you want to produce an exhaust gas emission, waste food or food byproduct, handle any chemical labeled as toxic, transport chemicals and a myriad of other things that are highly regulated by the EPA.

Show me on the doll where the EPA touched you. Sorry if it is hard for you to start up your toxic chemical disposal business in the back of your toyota pickup truck, but almost any inspector an actual small startup is going to encounter is coming from a local municipality. The EPA doesn't have nearly enough inspectors to send one to every mom and pop restaurant using dishwashing chemicals.

Tgo01

01-27-2017, 11:26 PM

Enlighten me, how much are the tariffs?

http://tradecommissioner.gc.ca/china-chine/market-facts-faits-sur-le-marche/125684.aspx?lang=eng

China charges tariffs on most imports, primarily ad valorem.

The average tariff dropped from 15.3% in 2000 to 9.8% in 2016.

BigWorm

01-27-2017, 11:42 PM

http://tradecommissioner.gc.ca/china-chine/market-facts-faits-sur-le-marche/125684.aspx?lang=eng

Lol how polite of Canada to make this data available. That average is about twice what I see for trade-weighted from other sources so I assume it is a simple average. Even comparing the simple averages, that's not at the top end of the global scale. For example, look at the trade-weighted and applied simple averged tariffs here: https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/statis_maps_e.htm

You'll see that after joining the WTO, China's tariffs are in line with most developed countries as well since you got butt hurt about me calling China a developing market.

Tgo01

01-28-2017, 12:06 AM

China's tariffs are in line with most developed countries as well since you got butt hurt about me calling China a developing market.

They are?

Looking at the simple average final bound, simple average applied, and trade weighted applied things look like this:

China: 10, 9.9, 4.5
EU: 4.8, 5.1, 2.7
Canada: 6.8, 4.2, 3.2
Japan: 4.4, 4, 1.9
US: 3.5, 3.5, 2.2

China is almost twice as high (or higher) compared to most other countries listed in all categories, and this is with China having the second largest economy and possibly soon enough to be the largest economy. So, yeah, I'd say higher tariffs have been working pretty well for them.

BigWorm

01-28-2017, 12:16 AM

Looking at the simple average final bound

Do you know what those words mean? There's a reason I didn't include the final bound. I know you are an expert on tariffs but please explain why "MFN tariffs, simple average, final bound" is relevant to this discussion?

As I'm sure you're aware, the trade-weighted averages are the most useful for comparison. I'm not really sure how you can consider Canada's 3.2% rate and China's 4.5% rates out of line with each other. Do you want to want to start a trade war with Canada too? Should Japan come after us since their average is slightly lower than ours? You didn't include Russia, but if Trump is so mad about China's tariffs, he should probably not meet with Putin until they lower their tariff that is nearly FOUR TIMES as high as ours.

~Rocktar~

01-28-2017, 12:18 AM

Show me on the doll where the EPA touched you. Sorry if it is hard for you to start up your toxic chemical disposal business in the back of your toyota pickup truck, but almost any inspector an actual small startup is going to encounter is coming from a local municipality. The EPA doesn't have nearly enough inspectors to send one to every mom and pop restaurant using dishwashing chemicals.

You are so clueless I am not even going to bother anymore. Just because the EPA doesn't send an inspector does not mean you don't have to deal with them, their regs, their oversight and/or face prosecution by them. Seriously, get a clue.

Tgo01

01-28-2017, 12:27 AM

I'm not really sure how you can consider Canada's 3.2% rate and China's 4.5% rates out of line with each other.

I didn't say they were. Maybe you should stop being such a condescending prick and just stick to what I actually say and not what you think I said. Think you can manage that?

Do you want to want to start a trade war with Canada too?

Read above.

Should Japan come after us since their average is slightly lower than ours?

You said China's tariffs were "in line" with developed nations, yet according to your own link they have the highest tariffs in all of the countries I mentioned, by quite a hefty margin at that in most cases.

You didn't include Russia, but if Trump is so mad about China's tariffs, he should probably not meet with Putin until they lower their tariff that is nearly FOUR TIMES as high as ours.

I really don't know what you're getting your panties in a bunch about. Latrin made the sarcastic comment "We're seriously debating whether tariffs work. Yikes." I pointed out that tariffs seem to work for China and since then you've been mocking my comment while providing plenty of evidence to show that apparently tariffs haven't hurt China all that much. Again, second largest economy in the world, most likely soon to be largest economy.

Russia has tariffs four times as high as the US? Well they have the 12th largest economy in the world so I guess things aren't looking too bad for them either.

BigWorm

01-28-2017, 12:28 AM

You are so clueless I am not even going to bother anymore. Just because the EPA doesn't send an inspector does not mean you don't have to deal with them, their regs, their oversight and/or face prosecution by them. Seriously, get a clue.

I started a small business and work with many others day to day. I totally acknowledged that regulation is a major issue, but the EPA is far from the most troublesome regulatory body for most small businesses.

I do know a contractor who had to deal with EPA regulations about lead paint disclosure. He actually didn't have a problem with the regulation itself because he didn't want kids eating lead paint chips or his workers breathing in lead paint dust, but felt that weak enforcement lead to his competitors choosing not to disclose. Are you one of his competitors who didn't care about protecting kids from lead paint?

BigWorm

01-28-2017, 12:31 AM

BigWorm

01-28-2017, 12:35 AM

I didn't say they were.

You said China's tariffs were "in line" with developed nations, yet according to your own link they have the highest tariffs in all of the countries I mentioned, by quite a hefty margin at that in most cases.

So you didn't say that China's tariff are out of line with Canada's, but also you think that I was wrong to say the China's tariffs are in line with many developed countries?

I pointed out that tariffs seem to work for China and since then you've been mocking my comment while providing plenty of evidence to show that apparently tariffs haven't hurt China all that much

And I'm pointing out that China's tariffs aren't very different from most other WTO member countries so there is no reason a tariff would "hurt" them.

Tgo01

01-28-2017, 12:39 AM

And I'm pointing out that China's tariffs aren't very different from most other WTO member countries so there is no reason a tariff would "hurt" them.

But apparently Trump proposing tariffs on certain Chinese or Mexican goods would mean certain doom for the US.

BigWorm

01-28-2017, 12:43 AM

Trump's proposed tariff is 20%. That is way out of line from all of the numbers you posted, even the useless ones.

And I didn't say that it would be 'certain doom', but rather that it would be negative for US economic growth and in the long term have the opposite of the intended effect.

Methais

01-28-2017, 09:33 AM

.

Deleting a post is as easy as 1-2-3.

http://i.imgur.com/pBCNSvK.png

https://media0.giphy.com/media/Y2nbrJyAR6RiM/200_s.gif

Parkbandit

01-28-2017, 12:22 PM

Deleting a post is as easy as 1-2-3.

http://i.imgur.com/pBCNSvK.png

https://media0.giphy.com/media/Y2nbrJyAR6RiM/200_s.gif

Don't tell him what to do, you racist, sexist, xenophobic bastard!

PS - Trump Triggering is a real phenomenon... delicious tears are delicious.

BigWorm

01-28-2017, 12:37 PM

Delete your account

Methais

01-28-2017, 12:41 PM

Delete your account

While users of The Gemstone IV Players' Corner can easily and conveniently delete their own posts with just a few clicks of their mouse, accounts cannot be deleted.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/Y2nbrJyAR6RiM/200_s.gif

BigWorm

01-28-2017, 12:41 PM

Delete your hot dog stand

rolfard

01-28-2017, 12:42 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCysq_5XcAA

Methais

01-28-2017, 01:08 PM

Delete your hot dog stand

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/001/105/036/ada.jpg

But anyway, while digital content can indeed be deleted, it is impossible to delete a physical item, as matter cannot be created nor destroyed.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/Y2nbrJyAR6RiM/200_s.gif

BigWorm

01-28-2017, 02:18 PM

dont get your panties in a bunch snowflake. methais tears are so delicious

Methais

01-28-2017, 02:24 PM

dont get your panties in a bunch snowflake. methais tears are so delicious

I'm just trying to help you not be ignorant as fuck. The only one getting butthurt is you.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/620/586/800.jpg

BigWorm

01-28-2017, 02:31 PM

Please, tell me more about how Mexico will pay for the wall.

Methais

01-28-2017, 02:33 PM

Please, tell me more about how Mexico will pay for the wall.

When did I say anything about Mexico paying for the wall?

gg deflecting from you being retarded as fuck though

BigWorm

01-28-2017, 02:48 PM

Methais

01-28-2017, 03:35 PM

Um isn't that what this thread is about? How Trump lied and said that Mexico would pay for the wall but actually it will be Americans paying for it?

Super dope ad hominem attack though. You totally got me. I've changed my viewpoint based on this new information.

Let's recap here:

Bigworm: I don't know how to use forums that I've been posting on for years!

Me: Good afternoon, kind sir. Allow me to assist you with your dilemma. If you simply click these 3 buttons, you can delete a post.

Bigworm: Delete your account.

Me: But good sir, users of The Gemstone IV Players' Corner do not have the ability to delete accounts.

Bigworm: Delete your hot dog stand.

Me: While unfounded and without provocation, your bitterness is quite amusing. Also, kind citizen, I feel the need to also inform you that physical items cannot actually be deleted, for the laws of science forbid such a thing.

Bigworm: OMG Methais is a snowflake and is crying everywhere! I also have no idea what snowflake actually means!

Me: Here here, good sir, let me remind you that I'm merely trying to assist you in reducing your level of ignorance. This gesture seems to have offended you.

Bigworm: Tell me more about how Mexico will pay for the wall!

Me: I say, you must have me confused with somebody else, for I have yet to speak about this wall that our President wishes to build. I assume though, that your sudden topic shift means that wish to no longer discuss your lack of basic reasoning and problem solving skills. There is no need to confirm or deny it, for you have made it quite obvious.

Bigworm: Omg the wall is what this thread is about! Btw nice ad hominem lol I win the argument!

Me: http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/520e3494ecad04560400000a-480/bill-murray-suntory-lost-in-translation.png

BigWorm

01-28-2017, 03:53 PM

Methais

01-28-2017, 03:56 PM

Wow, you are really butthurt that I want to pad my post count. Don't worry, I have a job so I am unlikely to ever catch up to your 23k posts. Your epeen is safe, snowflake. Sorry if someone violated your safe space.

Can you tell me what defines a snowflake in the context you're using it?

Can you also tell me how you padding your post count has anything to do with anyone's epeen other than your own, so that you might not look like a complete hypocrite? I thought padding went out of style in like 2007 anyway.

Actually it was never in style.

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Laughing-Men-In-Suits.jpg

BigWorm

01-28-2017, 03:57 PM

Don't try to change the subject

Methais

01-28-2017, 04:02 PM

Don't try to change the subject

I accept your apology. I guess I have a soft spot in my heart for people with special needs.

Latrinsorm

01-28-2017, 06:29 PM

I didn't say they were. Maybe you should stop being such a condescending prick and just stick to what I actually say and not what you think I said. Think you can manage that?

Read above.

You said China's tariffs were "in line" with developed nations, yet according to your own link they have the highest tariffs in all of the countries I mentioned, by quite a hefty margin at that in most cases.

I really don't know what you're getting your panties in a bunch about. Latrin made the sarcastic comment "We're seriously debating whether tariffs work. Yikes." I pointed out that tariffs seem to work for China and since then you've been mocking my comment while providing plenty of evidence to show that apparently tariffs haven't hurt China all that much. Again, second largest economy in the world, most likely soon to be largest economy.

Russia has tariffs four times as high as the US? Well they have the 12th largest economy in the world so I guess things aren't looking too bad for them either.To be clear, my comment was in no way sarcastic. I do not support sarcasm in general, and in this specific case I was completely genuine in expressing shock and dismay that people would support tariffs just because their puppeteers told them to. For the record, I continue to hold that position.

There are very few things we are taught in school that are actually right. Among them:
1. Nazis are bad. You shouldn't do Nazism.
2. Tariffs are bad. You shouldn't do tariffs.
3. Drugs are bad. You shouldn't do drugs.

Somehow these lessons have been lost. This is deeply disturbing.

Warriorbird

01-29-2017, 12:41 AM

To be clear, my comment was in no way sarcastic. I do not support sarcasm in general, and in this specific case I was completely genuine in expressing shock and dismay that people would support tariffs just because their puppeteers told them to. For the record, I continue to hold that position.

There are very few things we are taught in school that are actually right. Among them:
1. Nazis are bad. You shouldn't do Nazism.
2. Tariffs are bad. You shouldn't do tariffs.
3. Drugs are bad. You shouldn't do drugs.

Somehow these lessons have been lost. This is deeply disturbing.

I find it funny that we have a group of people who want to wail about "European socialism" and then do one of the dumbest aspects. I guess they don't want the best GDP on the planet.