Trump Revives Ban on Foreign Aid to Groups That Give Abortion Counseling

[drauz]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/world/trump-ban-foreign-aid-abortions.html


President Trump reinstated a policy on Monday that originated in the Reagan era, prohibiting the granting of American foreign aid to health providers abroad who discuss abortion as a family-planning option.

United States law already prohibits the use of American taxpayer dollars for abortion services anywhere, including in countries where the procedure is legal. But Mr. Trump’s order takes the prohibition further: It freezes funding to nongovernmental organizations in poor countries if they offer abortion counseling or if they advocate the right to seek abortion in their countries.

The freeze applies even if the organizations already use other sources of funding for these services.

[Fallen]

I wonder if this is just the start of a new back and forth on abortion, or just a concession to the right to say he did something.

[drauz]

I wonder if this is just the start of a new back and forth on abortion, or just a concession to the right to say he did something.

I am wondering if he is testing the waters to try this on Planned Parenthood.

[Gelston]

I am wondering if he is testing the waters to try this on Planned Parenthood.

Every Republican President has reinstated this policy, just as every Democrat President has removed it. It is just a standard thing now that should be expected.

[Neveragain]

I wonder if this is just the start of a new back and forth on abortion, or just a concession to the right to say he did something.

(Stepping out of my extremist mode for the time being)

Planned parenthood or any institution that provides abortions will not be getting government funding when this is all said and done with. (my prediction)

In the state where I live they just passed a bill making it possible for a woman that has an abortion to sue the healthcare provider if they experience any emotional impact after the procedure.

[drauz]

(Stepping out of my extremist mode for the time being)

Planned parenthood or any institution that provides abortions will not be getting government funding when this is all said and done with. (my prediction)

In the state where I live they just passed a bill making it possible for a woman that has an abortion to sue the healthcare provider if they experience any emotional impact after the procedure.

That sounds like a pretty dumb bill.

[Neveragain]

That sounds like a pretty dumb bill.

Think about it a minute from the pro-life perspective. What insurance company is going to cover a doctor that performs abortions when it would be so easy for the patient to say "yea it impacted me emotionally", what doctor is going to take that kind of risk?

This is coming from the state that was the first to legalize same sex marriage if that gives you an inside look at the politics here.

P.S. I should also mention because we passed that bill we lose federal money and it still passed.

[drauz]

Think about it a minute from the pro-life perspective. What insurance company is going to cover a doctor that performs abortions when it would be so easy for the patient to say "yea it impacted me emotionally", what doctor is going to take that kind of risk?

That is exactly why I think its a dumb bill.

[drauz]

So I just looked up the bill and couldn't find that it was actually passed yet. I could only find that it was moved from committee to the Senate on a 2-1 vote. Also looks like they are going to defund Planned Parenthood and possibly bankrupt your state.

[Neveragain]

So I just looked up the bill and couldn't find that it was actually passed yet. I could only find that it was moved from committee to the Senate on a 2-1 vote. Also looks like they are going to defund Planned Parenthood and possibly bankrupt your state.

It would be very difficult to bankrupt this state, we hold to much leverage with our food production.

[Ardwen]

If you look up half the bills in circulation they are insane, at least 8 states have bills of some sort against protesting, some idiot in the dakotas is trying to pass a bill that essentiallly allows you to run down people on the road if they are protesting and you can say it was an accident.

[drauz]

It would be very difficult to bankrupt this state, we hold to much leverage with our food production.

Losing medicaid Federal funding would be a HUGE hit to your state. When you are already facing a 100m budget shortfall.

[drauz]

If you look up half the bills in circulation they are insane, at least 8 states have bills of some sort against protesting, some idiot in the dakotas is trying to pass a bill that essentiallly allows you to run down people on the road if they are protesting and you can say it was an accident.

Democrats have lost so badly in state legislature recently. I think its 16 democrat governors. I would think state representation for legislation would be similar. Now they have lost the House, Senate, and White House. Democrats better step up their game if they want to stay in this.

[time4fun]

Democrats have lost so badly in state legislature recently. I think its 16 democrat governors. I would think state representation for legislation would be similar. Now they have lost the House, Senate, and White House. Democrats better step up their game if they want to stay in this.

Part of it is gerrymandering, but it's not as much as Democrats often like to think.

The real issue is that the bulk of Democrats- who make up a larger percentage of the population than Republicans- basically all cluster in the same few areas. The way we distribute political power is more based on geography than anything else, which allows Republicans to govern from the minority. Well that and the fact that Republicans have no qualms about leveraging voter suppression.

Granted a Democratic wave in 2020 would definitely help tip things back. The House was lost because of the Republican wave in 2010, and the extremely organized GOP redistricting campaign that ensued. But, ultimately, the population concentration issue that hits Democrats so hard is only becoming more pronounced as time goes on.

[Neveragain]

If you look up half the bills in circulation they are insane, at least 8 states have bills of some sort against protesting, some idiot in the dakotas is trying to pass a bill that essentiallly allows you to run down people on the road if they are protesting and you can say it was an accident.

You do know we have a protected right to free movement, you can protest all you want but you can not force a person from moving past your protest. If your protest is blocking a road which is paid for by the tax payers money, you're going to get your ass ran over. Don't feel sorry for these people one bit when they do.

[drauz]

Part of it is gerrymandering, but it's not as much as Democrats often like to think.

The real issue is that the bulk of Democrats- who make up a larger percentage of the population than Republicans- basically all cluster in the same few areas. The way we distribute political power is more based on geography than anything else, which allows Republicans to govern from the minority. Well that and the fact that Republicans have no qualms about leveraging voter suppression.

Granted a Democratic wave in 2020 would definitely help tip things back. The House was lost because of the Republican wave in 2010, and the extremely organized GOP redistricting campaign that ensued. But, ultimately, the population concentration issue that hits Democrats so hard is only becoming more pronounced as time goes on.

Yeah when one state can swing the popular vote so hard, you know you've fucked up.

[Neveragain]

Losing medicaid Federal funding would be a HUGE hit to your state. When you are already facing a 100m budget shortfall.

Some things are more important than the Caesars money.

[drauz]

Some things are more important than the Caesars money.

Are you saying the healthcare of the many is less important than unborn fetuses?

Point is, you can't get along WITH the "caesar's money". Good luck without it.

[Pin]

Part of it is gerrymandering, but it's not as much as Democrats often like to think.


I think one of the main problems of the Democratic Party is once you start to go left of center, ideas start to shoot off in 100 different ways. I identify with being a democrat, however, I think PETA, for example, is to extreme for my tastes.

My point is once you get far enough left, there tend to be to many hyper specific groups wanting to push hyper specific agendas, and they don't always concern themselves with the needs of the group. It's part of the why the woman's march didn't really feel like it had a message; by the time you went through their 7 hours of speakers representing every combination of woman, lgbtq, transgender, race, creed, credo and religion - the water starts to get muddied and you message turns into a jumbled mess. TL;DR exists for a reason.

At least from where I sit (and I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong) once you go right of center, people generally agree on the same principles - for example, I can't really think of a right wing group I'd be able to compare to the NAACP or the ACLU, which are somewhat exclusive in their own right - it's more just matter of how conservative you feel comfortable being.

This is why I think despite Republicans having the 239847 candidates they seem to have in every primary season, it's much easier to rally behind whoever eventually wins. It's also why I the platform is so much more condensed.

[drauz]

I think one of the main problems of the Democratic Party is once you start to go left of center, ideas start to shoot off in 100 different ways. I identify with being a democrat, however, I think PETA, for example, is to extreme for my tastes.

My point is once you get far enough left, there tend to be to many hyper specific groups wanting to push hyper specific agendas, and they don't always concern themselves with the needs of the group. It's part of the why the woman's march didn't really feel like it had a message; by the time you went through their 7 hours of speakers representing every combination of woman, lgbtq, transgender, race, creed, credo and religion - the water starts to get muddied and you message turns into a jumbled mess. TL;DR exists for a reason.

At least from where I sit (and I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong) once you go right of center, people generally agree on the same principles - for example, I can't really think of a right wing group I'd be able to compare to the NAACP or the ACLU, which are somewhat exclusive in their own right - it's more just matter of how conservative you feel comfortable being.

This is why I think despite Republicans having the 239847 candidates they seem to have in every primary season, it's much easier to rally behind whoever eventually wins. It's also why I the platform is so much more condensed.

PETA is a terrible organization. If you like animals at all you should really stop donating to them. They don't really try to find them homes, they tend to just kill them. These people are truly terrible people.

[Pin]

PETA is a terrible organization. If you like animals at all you should really stop donating to them. They don't really try to find them homes, they tend to just kill them. These people are truly terrible people.

Totally agree - they are for sure a group that most people would put on the left side of the spectrum - but I think suck.

[Ardwen]

But hey at least we had time to have a new holiday created, we clearly needed National Day of Patriotic Devotion, much more then the 32 first day things that were never gotten around to. China will be named a currency manipulator any second now I bet!

[drauz]

But hey at least we had time to have a new holiday created, we clearly needed National Day of Patriotic Devotion, much more then the 32 first day things that were never gotten around to. China will be named a currency manipulator any second now I bet!

I thought that was Veteran's Day. He sure isn't having the best start.

[Gelston]

But hey at least we had time to have a new holiday created, we clearly needed National Day of Patriotic Devotion, much more then the 32 first day things that were never gotten around to. China will be named a currency manipulator any second now I bet!

I think Inauguration Day should have been a holiday from the start.

[time4fun]

I think one of the main problems of the Democratic Party is once you start to go left of center, ideas start to shoot off in 100 different ways. I identify with being a democrat, however, I think PETA, for example, is to extreme for my tastes.

My point is once you get far enough left, there tend to be to many hyper specific groups wanting to push hyper specific agendas, and they don't always concern themselves with the needs of the group. It's part of the why the woman's march didn't really feel like it had a message; by the time you went through their 7 hours of speakers representing every combination of woman, lgbtq, transgender, race, creed, credo and religion - the water starts to get muddied and you message turns into a jumbled mess. TL;DR exists for a reason.

At least from where I sit (and I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong) once you go right of center, people generally agree on the same principles - for example, I can't really think of a right wing group I'd be able to compare to the NAACP or the ACLU, which are somewhat exclusive in their own right - it's more just matter of how conservative you feel comfortable being.

This is why I think despite Republicans having the 239847 candidates they seem to have in every primary season, it's much easier to rally behind whoever eventually wins. It's also why I the platform is so much more condensed.

Uh.

There's a lot wrong with this

[Taernath]

I think Inauguration Day should have been a holiday from the start.

How about election day instead.

[drauz]

Uh.

There's a lot wrong with this

Don't bother explaining, we'll just google it ourselves.

[drauz]

How about election day instead.

That would be awesome, kids are already off school.

[Ardwen]

Naming it a holiday and informing everyone you did it 3 days later is possibly the oddest thing so far from this group of politicians, and when consider the whole alternative facts silliness that is saying a lot.

[Taernath]

Naming it a holiday and informing everyone you did it 3 days later is possibly the oddest thing so far from this group of politicians, and when consider the whole alternative facts silliness that is saying a lot.

Well to be fair, it would be hell on employers if he dropped a federal holiday the day before (even if he could).

The name is creepy as fuck though.

[Neveragain]

Are you saying the healthcare of the many is less important than unborn fetuses?

Point is, you can't get along WITH the "caesar's money". Good luck without it.

I think we will be able to find plenty of places to reduce that spending, our highest paid state employee is a football coach making $4.5 million a year.

And I would argue our state and the states making the same decisions as us (Dakota's, Nebraska, etc.) have enough resources to do without Caesar.

[Latrinsorm]

Democrats have lost so badly in state legislature recently. I think its 16 democrat governors. I would think state representation for legislation would be similar. Now they have lost the House, Senate, and White House. Democrats better step up their game if they want to stay in this.One of the odd reactions to this election has been to set it in stone. Eight years ago the Democrats controlled both houses and the Presidency (plus a supermajority in the Senate), had a majority of Governors and state legislatures. Eight! We're not talking about FDR times here, we're talking literally the last administration. Liberals were massively concentrated in cities, conservatives were whining about the race card, everything people know as absolute fact for the downfall of the Democrats was just as true then, and we had the farthest possible result in the opposite direction.

At the same time, the country has become MORE socially liberal (gay marriage, marijuana, abortion, death penalty) and MORE demographically diverse (yet another new record high in non-white voting % in 2016). I'm a scientist, all I do all day is look for explanations to phenomenon. Sometimes there is none, and I get that that's frustrating and unnerving, but it's still a better answer than the internally incoherent stuff we've been hearing since November.
I think one of the main problems of the Democratic Party is once you start to go left of center, ideas start to shoot off in 100 different ways. I identify with being a democrat, however, I think PETA, for example, is to extreme for my tastes.

My point is once you get far enough left, there tend to be to many hyper specific groups wanting to push hyper specific agendas, and they don't always concern themselves with the needs of the group. It's part of the why the woman's march didn't really feel like it had a message; by the time you went through their 7 hours of speakers representing every combination of woman, lgbtq, transgender, race, creed, credo and religion - the water starts to get muddied and you message turns into a jumbled mess. TL;DR exists for a reason.

At least from where I sit (and I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong) once you go right of center, people generally agree on the same principles - for example, I can't really think of a right wing group I'd be able to compare to the NAACP or the ACLU, which are somewhat exclusive in their own right - it's more just matter of how conservative you feel comfortable being.

This is why I think despite Republicans having the 239847 candidates they seem to have in every primary season, it's much easier to rally behind whoever eventually wins. It's also why I the platform is so much more condensed.The whole point behind "alt-right" is that there are many staunchly opposed choices on the far right. There are evangelicals, neo-Nazis, small government types (that actually mean it), all of whom hate each other. Heck, even within these bins you have factions that absolutely hate each other. You can find the same concerns for / exhortations to a big tent party from Republicans as Democrats, it's always an issue when neither party has an ideological definition but instead makes it up as they go.

[drauz]

One of the odd reactions to this election has been to set it in stone. Eight years ago the Democrats controlled both houses and the Presidency (plus a supermajority in the Senate), had a majority of Governors and state legislatures. Eight! We're not talking about FDR times here, we're talking literally the last administration. Liberals were massively concentrated in cities, conservatives were whining about the race card, everything people know as absolute fact for the downfall of the Democrats was just as true then, and we had the farthest possible result in the opposite direction.

Yes, and republicans stepped up their game. Saying someone needs to step up their game =/= setting it in stone. Doing nothing about your short comings could lead to that though. This is where the problem lies, it seems a lot of Democrats are still blaming racists, xenophobes, and sexists. This is in part what lost them this election so heavily and they don't seem to be reflecting and correcting from it. It has only been a short while so perhaps they can correct themselves.

[Parkbandit]

Naming it a holiday and informing everyone you did it 3 days later is possibly the oddest thing so far from this group of politicians, and when consider the whole alternative facts silliness that is saying a lot.

Yea, I didn't understand that at all. And he made it all creepy.. like it's Patriots Day because I am now President..

[Ardwen]

NASA, the EPA, the NPS and several individual national Parks have gone rogue and are running individual non governmental Twitter feeds to get out the science that Trump and his team have ordered deleted and suppressed.

[Gelston]

NASA, the EPA, the NPS and several individual national Parks have gone rogue and are running individual non governmental Twitter feeds to get out the science that Trump and his team have ordered deleted and suppressed.

They didn't go rogue, their twitter was compromised. It was the twitter of ONE park, and it was a former employee that still had access to it.

[Ardwen]

Actually as they are new non-governmental twitter accts that isn't what happened, they have literally gone rogue

[Gelston]

Actually as they are new non-governmental twitter accts that isn't what happened, they have literally gone rogue

I thought you were talking about http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/25/no-one-should-be-surprised-national-park-services-twitter-was-compromised/ Because I haven't heard of anything else.

Unless you just mean random people's twitter accounts. That isn't going rogue, that is just tweeting.

[Ardwen]

we have Rogue NASA, AltUsNatlParkService, BadHombreLands NPS. RogueCIA, altUSDA, altEPA etc etc etc

[Gelston]

we have Rogue NASA, AltUsNatlParkService, BadHombreLands NPS etc etc etc

Meh, just posting stuff other groups already post. IFLS has been doing that for years.

when someone says "going rogue" I think of Sarah Palin.

[Ardwen]

read them, its not all retweets heh

[Ardwen]

The fact that Trump tried to get the EPA to delete climate change data doesn't disturb you?

[Gelston]

The fact that Trump tried to get the EPA to delete climate change data doesn't disturb you?

Not really, mostly due to the fact that I don't give one shit about the planet and I hope it eventually become a barren wasteland for our children's children to suffer in.

[tyrant-201]

Not really, mostly due to the fact that I don't give one shit about the planet and I hope it eventually become a barren wasteland for our children's children to suffer in.

At least you can be honest about it.

[Ardwen]

Then we have prosecutors in Iowa trying to get a court to remove 2 protestors first amendment rights, for protesting on a public sidewalk in front of the state houe in Iowa which apparently can be rented for corporate parties. The times they are changing.

[Gelston]

Then we have prosecutors in Iowa trying to get a court to remove 2 protestors first amendment rights, for protesting on a public sidewalk in front of the state houe in Iowa which apparently can be rented for corporate parties. The times they are changing.

Did they have a permit?

[Ardwen]

Or that Trump is going to ban travellers form all Muslim majority nations except of course those he does business in.

[Ardwen]

Our Constitution gives us the right to peacefully assemble. They weren't blocking traffic or causing a disturbance.

[Gelston]

Or that Trump is going to ban travellers form all Muslim majority nations except of course those he does business in.

He is banning from Syria, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Sudan, and Somalia. Seems about right to me. What other countries do you recommend?


Our Constitution gives us the right to peacefully assemble. They weren't blocking traffic or causing a disturbance.

The police obviously see that differently. They have their day in court. If they were impeding pedestrian or street traffic, no matter the number of people, that is not protected. The ACLU agrees.

[Ardwen]

Suadi Arabia, I mean most of the 9/11 attackers came from there, Turkey, ya know home of at least 3 major terrorist organizations, Egypt also home to several major terrorist groups, of course hs has properties or projects in those three.

Hell didn't he claim the Saudi's financed 9/11 and aren't we allowing people to sue that country?

[Neveragain]

Then we have prosecutors in Iowa trying to get a court to remove 2 protestors first amendment rights, for protesting on a public sidewalk in front of the state houe in Iowa which apparently can be rented for corporate parties. The times they are changing.

Wait a minute, where did you getting this information from?

[Gelston]

Suadi Arabia, I mean most of the 9/11 attackers came from there, Turkey, ya know home of at least 3 major terrorist organizations, Egypt also home to several major terrorist groups, of course hs has properties or projects in those three.

Hmm, what do all the countries he banned immigration from have in common that those ones you named don't... Hmm...

[Ardwen]

Forbes among others is carrying it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2017/01/10/in-a-trial-against-protesters-the-state-of-iowa-seeks-unusual-ban-on-first-amendment-defense/#227444276475

[Ardwen]

You mean other then Trump businesses Gelston?

[Gelston]

Also, I love this video, Sorry, not on youtube, you'll need to click the link. This is how you take care of people impeding traffic.

https://www.facebook.com/fox12oregon/videos/10155066468878701/

[Enuch]

(Stepping out of my extremist mode for the time being)

Planned parenthood or any institution that provides abortions will not be getting government funding when this is all said and done with. (my prediction)

In the state where I live they just passed a bill making it possible for a woman that has an abortion to sue the healthcare provider if they experience any emotional impact after the procedure.

Anything prohibiting the provider using a form signing they won't sue? Pretty sure if they could do that, this would render the bill useless. When I run a race I sign a waiver saying I won't sue so I can't see why they couldn't do something similar

[Gelston]

Forbes among others is carrying it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2017/01/10/in-a-trial-against-protesters-the-state-of-iowa-seeks-unusual-ban-on-first-amendment-defense/#227444276475

"The court will decide who’s right on this misdemeanor charge."

I don't see the problem. That is what the courts exist for.

[Latrinsorm]

Yes, and republicans stepped up their game.Based on what? If 40,000 voters change their minds we're all talking about how the Blue Wall held, the Democrats are poised to take back Congress after gaining ground in both houses, the GOP will never win another Presidency, diversity ascendant, yadda yadda yadda. Nobody cared about state governments in 2008 or 2012, nobody would have cared about them in 2016 either.

[Gelston]

Based on what? If 40,000 voters change their minds we're all talking about how the Blue Wall held, the Democrats are poised to take back Congress after gaining ground in both houses, the GOP will never win another Presidency, diversity ascendant, yadda yadda yadda. Nobody cared about state governments in 2008 or 2012, nobody would have cared about them in 2016 either.

Yeah, only focus on the Presidential, not the Republicans maintaining control of the House, Senate, and the majority of Governors.

[Neveragain]

Forbes among others is carrying it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2017/01/10/in-a-trial-against-protesters-the-state-of-iowa-seeks-unusual-ban-on-first-amendment-defense/#227444276475

Oh them, yea they have a history of harassing people. Here is the thing, In 2012 OWS bused in a bunch of protesters and the city allowed them to camp out in the city park across from the Capital, which is against city code but they allowed them to do it anyway. They broke into to some vacant buildings and squatted in them and the city refused to remove them. During the day they were pan handling out in front of business's and again the city wouldn't do anything about it. They bum rushed other private business's as well. Then when December rolled around they found out how harsh the weather is here, pulled up camp and left it in a complete mess, the lawn in the park had to be completely replaced because it was a giant mud hole, it was filthy.

The other day these people were blocking the Governors office, the stairwells in the Capital were being blocked as well.

Totally dismissing this.

[Gelston]

You mean other then Trump businesses Gelston?

ISIS holds ground in all of those countries, except Iran. Just, fuck Iran.

[Latrinsorm]

Yeah, only focus on the Presidential, not the Republicans maintaining control of the House,I explicitly mentioned this,
Senate,I explicitly mentioned this, and
and the majority of Governors.I explicitly mentioned this.

You're really bad at this. :(

[Ardwen]

ISIS isn't in Turkey or Saudi Arabia or Egypt?

[Gelston]

ISIS isn't in Turkey or Saudi Arabia or Egypt?

They don't claim land in them. They have operations there, sure, but if we went based off of everywhere they operated we'd have to ban most of Europe.

I can think of some longstanding diplomatic reasons for why we wouldn't want to ban from Turkey and Egypt too. Turkey, we maintain a pretty large, strategically important base there. Egypt is one of the few Arabic countries that doesn't immediately lose its head when discussing Israel. Saudi Arabia, I wouldn't mind banning them, but we do use them for Naval purposes.

[Ardwen]

as soon as you move an embassy to Jerusalem any and all Arab ties are going to blow up you realize that right? Hell even Jordan has warned against it. And yes ISIS does claim territory in both turkey and Egypt, not much but its there. Saudis and Turks are the 3rd and 4th largest members of ISIS for that matter

[Gelston]

as soon as you move an embassy to Jerusalem any and all Arab ties are going to blow up you realize that right? Hell even Jordan has warned against it. And yes ISIS does claim territory in both turkey and Egypt, not much but its there. Saudis and Turks are the 3rd and 4th largest members of ISIS for that matter

Eh, they are renegging on moving the Embassy. I don't think they will.

What land does ISIS control in Egypt or Turkey? They got close, but the Turkish military made sure they never got in to Turkey.

[Ardwen]

Hell using your Logic we need to ban travel to Minnesota, there was an ISIS cell there too

[Gelston]

Hell using your Logic we need to ban travel to Minnesota, there was an ISIS cell there too

No, that is your logic there, pal. I said


They don't claim land in them. They have operations there, sure, but if we went based off of everywhere they operated we'd have to ban most of Europe.

[Ardwen]

Nope they don't claim land in Eqypt at all, must be more of that fake news.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/16/world/egypt-sinai-revenge-attack/

[Gelston]

Nope they don't claim land in Eqypt at all, must be more of that fake news.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/16/world/egypt-sinai-revenge-attack/

That isn't ISIS.

Why are we discussing this in an abortion thread, btw?

[Neveragain]

Anything prohibiting the provider using a form signing they won't sue? Pretty sure if they could do that, this would render the bill useless. When I run a race I sign a waiver saying I won't sue so I can't see why they couldn't do something similar

Not sure, I haven't looked at the language in the bill, not really up to it at the moment. It's kind of one of the shitty parts about being involved in politics in Iowa, being first in the nation we really only get about 6 months to chill the fuck out between election cycles. To be honest I don't even feel like I have had a chance to step back from it since January of '08, fucking burnt out.