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Thread: Pure, Archer Mage, & Warmage Information

  1. #11

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    Yeah, I fixskilled into the spell aim around mid 40's, as I was growing out of krynch. The bolts gave some more options for disabling, but came at the cost of the CM. However, at that level, .5 CM vs 1x CM was only 10-15 AS difference, easily made up by a pure potion.

    Plus, bolting just added in some variety that was getting boring with the straight swinging approach.

    Also, I seem to remember reading about someone getting two blink weapons (daggers? handaxes?) and dual wielding them with a warmage with 901 in them.

  2. #12
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    updated.


    >forage for snapdragon stalk
    d100(Open): -251
    You stumble about in a fruitless attempt at foraging.

    1/6/2014: Setheve completes the promotion ritual and says, "Congratulations, Whirlin, for achieving Guild Master status! We trust you'll serve your guild well."
    1/11/2014: Grandmaster Alchemist
    1/14/2014: Capped, and got Loralaii killed by a GM.
    7/11/2016: Founded the Hand of the Arkati
    9/20/2016: T5 on my bow (Thanks to Isola)... Managed as far as T4 myself.

  3. #13

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    Interesting article!
    Last edited by Aluvius; 03-08-2013 at 05:46 PM. Reason: Thing needing fixing now fixed!

  4. #14

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    thanks, whirlin. Question about 901 rapidfire, though... aren't crits based on the damage, not the roll? or is that just for weapons? In other words, a lance deals some killer crits because of its incredibly high DF. Because of that, doesn't that make it much harder to get crits with lower tier bolt spells? the damage might be better, but the criticals would be less, no?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aluvius View Post
    Your racial stat bonuses table needs to be fixed. Interesting article!
    Well fuck... Damn copy/paste


    >forage for snapdragon stalk
    d100(Open): -251
    You stumble about in a fruitless attempt at foraging.

    1/6/2014: Setheve completes the promotion ritual and says, "Congratulations, Whirlin, for achieving Guild Master status! We trust you'll serve your guild well."
    1/11/2014: Grandmaster Alchemist
    1/14/2014: Capped, and got Loralaii killed by a GM.
    7/11/2016: Founded the Hand of the Arkati
    9/20/2016: T5 on my bow (Thanks to Isola)... Managed as far as T4 myself.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoraster View Post
    thanks, whirlin. Question about 901 rapidfire, though... aren't crits based on the damage, not the roll? or is that just for weapons? In other words, a lance deals some killer crits because of its incredibly high DF. Because of that, doesn't that make it much harder to get crits with lower tier bolt spells? the damage might be better, but the criticals would be less, no?
    You're right, but not entirely there. I'll update the OP with the further explanation.

    You're absolutely right, crits are based on the damage, not the roll. Roll does impact DF, which is then used to calculate crits... but it is a step removed.

    Now, you changed the use of the term Crits in your question. A crit tier is simply the raw damage divided by the armor factor, which is then a lookup to a crit table dependent on the location. The crit table had a damage value associated with it, which in turn has a wound level on it. You'll get bonus damage at crit rank 1, which means 5-11 damage depending on armor type. even at the high end, 11 damage against plate is an endroll of... 179 with 901 with 24 ranks of air lore (186 without). But a rank 1 critical applies between 1 and 5 bonus damage.

    ok... I barely understood my explanation when I re-read it... Lets just leave it at... There's little flat-value additional damage that goes out, hitting things lots means you're getting lots of little flat-value bonus damage.

    I'll explain it better in the OP


    >forage for snapdragon stalk
    d100(Open): -251
    You stumble about in a fruitless attempt at foraging.

    1/6/2014: Setheve completes the promotion ritual and says, "Congratulations, Whirlin, for achieving Guild Master status! We trust you'll serve your guild well."
    1/11/2014: Grandmaster Alchemist
    1/14/2014: Capped, and got Loralaii killed by a GM.
    7/11/2016: Founded the Hand of the Arkati
    9/20/2016: T5 on my bow (Thanks to Isola)... Managed as far as T4 myself.

  7. #17
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    Stat correction: Sylvans actually have +5 aura... the STAT page on Krakii was wrong, I've updated krakii to reflect the official pages.


    >forage for snapdragon stalk
    d100(Open): -251
    You stumble about in a fruitless attempt at foraging.

    1/6/2014: Setheve completes the promotion ritual and says, "Congratulations, Whirlin, for achieving Guild Master status! We trust you'll serve your guild well."
    1/11/2014: Grandmaster Alchemist
    1/14/2014: Capped, and got Loralaii killed by a GM.
    7/11/2016: Founded the Hand of the Arkati
    9/20/2016: T5 on my bow (Thanks to Isola)... Managed as far as T4 myself.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlin View Post
    You're right, but not entirely there. I'll update the OP with the further explanation.

    You're absolutely right, crits are based on the damage, not the roll. Roll does impact DF, which is then used to calculate crits... but it is a step removed.

    Now, you changed the use of the term Crits in your question. A crit tier is simply the raw damage divided by the armor factor, which is then a lookup to a crit table dependent on the location. The crit table had a damage value associated with it, which in turn has a wound level on it. You'll get bonus damage at crit rank 1, which means 5-11 damage depending on armor type. even at the high end, 11 damage against plate is an endroll of... 179 with 901 with 24 ranks of air lore (186 without). But a rank 1 critical applies between 1 and 5 bonus damage.

    ok... I barely understood my explanation when I re-read it... Lets just leave it at... There's little flat-value additional damage that goes out, hitting things lots means you're getting lots of little flat-value bonus damage.

    I'll explain it better in the OP
    Sorry, I probably should have walked out my question more.

    Yeah, I get that. I guess what I meant was that by going the 901, high density, low critical route you're giving up death, knockdown, stun, amputating, etc. criticals you might get with higher DF spells, thus depriving you of lowered DS and giving you more chances of being hit. Instead you're going more for the death by HP route. That may still be superior, but I think that probably needs to be taken into account. In your example, Tier 5-9 fire crit to the chest is: S6/R2 wound, S8/R3 wound, fatal, fatal, so a 50% chance of being fatal. Tier 1-2 lightning crits are just Rank 1 wounds.

    I like your elaboration, but I think it's worth considering that an end roll of 180 vs. cloth for minor fire is an end roll of 160 vs. cloth for shock (in other words, if you're rolling say a 50 to get 180 for fire, with that same 50 roll you're getting 160 for shock because of the AvD). To correct the math then, it's:

    Fire: .667 DF * 80 = 53. 53/5 = 10 (9 max rank), randomized to 5-9
    Teirs 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Fire critical body damage bonuses are: 25,30,50,60,70
    53 base + 25,30,50,60,70 (average of 47) = 100 damage (Ignoring fatal crits)

    Lightning .15 DF *60 = 9/5 = 1, randomized 1
    Tiers 1 Lightning Critical Body damage bonuses is: 5
    9 base + 5 (average of 5) = 14 damage per bolt * 6 bolts = 84 damage total.


    So things are looking down for shock as an option against cloth, BUT:

    End roll of 180 for fire against Full Plate, chest

    Fire: .303 DF * 80 = 24. 24/11 = 2, randomized to 1-2
    Teirs 1-2: Fire critical body damage bonuses are: 5,10 (average 7.5)
    24 base + 7.5 = 31.5 damage

    Lightning .128 DF *60 = 7/5 = 1, randomized 1
    Tiers 1 Lightning Critical Body damage bonuses is: 5
    7 base + 5 (average of 5) = 12 damage per bolt * 6 bolts = 72 damage total.

    So clearly at the plate level, shock is winning out. This isn't really a surprise since Fire's DF is less than half against plate as it is against cloth, but shock's is still 85% what it was against cloth.

    (please don't misunderstand. really like your guide. Just hoping to really get to the core of things)

    And of course, as noted earlier this doesn't take into account lore, which as stated before almost certainly is to the benefit of minor shock more than it is to fire (even though lore is half as effective on an absolute level, it increases the DF proportionally much greater).
    Last edited by zoraster; 03-07-2013 at 11:25 AM.

  9. #19
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    Fun article, very well laid out.*

    PS
    Dark Elves rule.
    Vote for Gemstone Once a Day at The Mud Connection & Top Mud Sites

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoraster View Post
    Sorry, I probably should have walked out my question more.

    Yeah, I get that. I guess what I meant was that by going the 901, high density, low critical route you're giving up death, knockdown, stun, amputating, etc. criticals you might get with higher DF spells, thus depriving you of lowered DS and giving you more chances of being hit. Instead you're going more for the death by HP route. That may still be superior, but I think that probably needs to be taken into account. In your example, Tier 5-9 fire crit to the chest is: S6/R2 wound, S8/R3 wound, fatal, fatal, so a 50% chance of being fatal. Tier 1-2 lightning crits are just Rank 1 wounds.

    I like your elaboration, but I think it's worth considering that an end roll of 180 vs. cloth for minor fire is an end roll of 160 vs. cloth for shock (in other words, if you're rolling say a 50 to get 180 for fire, with that same 50 roll you're getting 160 for shock because of the AvD). To correct the math then, it's:

    Fire: .667 DF * 80 = 53. 53/5 = 10 (9 max rank), randomized to 5-9
    Teirs 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Fire critical body damage bonuses are: 25,30,50,60,70
    53 base + 25,30,50,60,70 (average of 47) = 100 damage (Ignoring fatal crits)

    Lightning .15 DF *60 = 9/5 = 1, randomized 1
    Tiers 1 Lightning Critical Body damage bonuses is: 5
    9 base + 5 (average of 5) = 14 damage per bolt * 6 bolts = 84 damage total.


    So things are looking down for shock as an option against cloth, BUT:

    End roll of 180 for fire against Full Plate, chest

    Fire: .303 DF * 80 = 24. 24/11 = 2, randomized to 1-2
    Teirs 1-2: Fire critical body damage bonuses are: 5,10 (average 7.5)
    24 base + 7.5 = 31.5 damage

    Lightning .128 DF *60 = 7/5 = 1, randomized 1
    Tiers 1 Lightning Critical Body damage bonuses is: 5
    7 base + 5 (average of 5) = 12 damage per bolt * 6 bolts = 72 damage total.

    So clearly at the plate level, shock is winning out. This isn't really a surprise since Fire's DF is less than half against plate as it is against cloth, but shock's is still 85% what it was against cloth.

    (please don't misunderstand. really like your guide. Just hoping to really get to the core of things)

    And of course, as noted earlier this doesn't take into account lore, which as stated before almost certainly is to the benefit of minor shock more than it is to fire (even though lore is half as effective on an absolute level, it increases the DF proportionally much greater).
    You're right, but it also doesn't take into account runestaff flares, which is another MASSIVE benefit, due to flat rate proc %s. 6 times the proc rate compared to 1 cast of 906. 1 proc of 20 damage would put them even by your calculations...
    Unfortunately, you can't really maths out procs as well as the other mechanics, with the unknown proc rates and variable crit teirs they do.

    That's also just one build option. Taverkin is a huge advocate of it. Maybe I didn't make a strong enough statement for a typical 2.6x spell research conventional 906 nuker build. But that's so vanilla I wanted to really highlight why some people are using crazy builds that people don't typically think of...

    Maybe I'll phrase it that way rather than doing a writeup on a 'normal' build.
    Last edited by Whirlin; 03-07-2013 at 02:35 PM.


    >forage for snapdragon stalk
    d100(Open): -251
    You stumble about in a fruitless attempt at foraging.

    1/6/2014: Setheve completes the promotion ritual and says, "Congratulations, Whirlin, for achieving Guild Master status! We trust you'll serve your guild well."
    1/11/2014: Grandmaster Alchemist
    1/14/2014: Capped, and got Loralaii killed by a GM.
    7/11/2016: Founded the Hand of the Arkati
    9/20/2016: T5 on my bow (Thanks to Isola)... Managed as far as T4 myself.

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