Russia Investigation Heating Up

[time4fun]

I know. It's disappointing to say the least. I suppose this is the fastest way to get documents. The three could put up a legal fight and make a hash of it all, but still it's disappointing. Especially after this exchange:

So the interesting thing about Congressional subpeonas is that you can't really fight them with lawyers- though of course everyone tries. It's the whole separation of powers thing- the Judiciary won't really intervene unless there's some seriously aggregious abuse of power going on, and there just aren't many functional limits when they're within the purview of their investigatory responsibilities (which is any oversight into the Executive and anything related to legislation- both of which are intentionally SUPER broad). And, of course, the Executive has no ability to regulate Congressional oversight into their own branch.

So it actually would have been faster and more effective to issue a subpeona. In Congress's defense- they do generally try to ask first and subpeona only when necessary. But in a case like this- there are very good reasons to be firm.

[cwolff]

So the interesting thing about Congressional subpeonas is that you can't really fight them with lawyers- though of course everyone tries. It's the whole separation of powers thing- the Judiciary won't really intervene unless there's some seriously aggregious abuse of power going on, and there just aren't many functional limits when they're within the purview of their investigatory responsibilities (which is any oversight into the Executive and anything related to legislation- both of which are intentionally SUPER broad). And, of course, the Executive has no ability to regulate Congressional oversight into their own branch.

So it actually would have been faster and more effective to issue a subpeona. In Congress's defense- they do generally try to ask first and subpeona only when necessary. But in a case like this- there are very good reasons to be firm.

And these guys are first going to be interviewed by congressional staff then possibly later a full senate hearing but that's not set in stone. Maybe this is a good way to do it. I'm hopeful.

[time4fun]

And these guys are first going to be interviewed by congressional staff then possibly later a full senate hearing but that's not set in stone. Maybe this is a good way to do it. I'm hopeful.

Yeah, we'll see. Calling myself out here- it's VERY easy to be incredibly frustrated with Congressional Republicans for refusing to take this investigation as seriously as it needs to be (and, you know, at least as seriously as the dozen or so investigations into Clinton), but they're stuck between a rock and a hard place here.

Trump and the media outlets that back him are busy spreading as much confusion and disinformation about the Russia election meddling (and subsequent investigations into it) as possible among the Republican base. That means Republicans in Congress who want to do the right thing here risk losing their jobs when their electorate decides they're wrong for attacking the President. At the same time, it's pretty clear at this point that they're not chasing nothing- there are some peope who are going to go down in flames from the Mueller investigation (very possibly the President himself), and if they stand by him too much- and come across as traitors to their own country- he'll drag them down with him.

During the 2016 campaign, a journalist remarked that the big question here wasn't whether the GOP could survive a Trump loss- it was whether they could survive a Trump win. That turned out to be rather prescient.

[Neveragain]

During the 2016 campaign, a journalist remarked that the big question here wasn't whether the GOP could survive a Trump loss- it was whether they could survive a Trump win. That turned out to be rather prescient.

DNC as of June 2017: -3.3 million dollars in funds

RNC June 2017: 13.5 million in donations

Doing my best to help you with your delusions. I really do care.

[hello]

Yeah, we'll see. Calling myself out here- it's VERY easy to be incredibly frustrated with Congressional Republicans for refusing to take this investigation as seriously as it needs to be (and, you know, at least as seriously as the dozen or so investigations into Clinton), but they're stuck between a rock and a hard place here.

Trump and the media outlets that back him are busy spreading as much confusion and disinformation about the Russia election meddling (and subsequent investigations into it) as possible among the Republican base. That means Republicans in Congress who want to do the right thing here risk losing their jobs when their electorate decides they're wrong for attacking the President. At the same time, it's pretty clear at this point that they're not chasing nothing- there are some peope who are going to go down in flames from the Mueller investigation (very possibly the President himself), and if they stand by him too much- and come across as traitors to their own country- he'll drag them down with him.

During the 2016 campaign, a journalist remarked that the big question here wasn't whether the GOP could survive a Trump loss- it was whether they could survive a Trump win. That turned out to be rather prescient.

Frankly it's not going to matter.

The thing you're not getting about Democrats is that liberals (most) just don't give a shit. They work at minimum some 9-5 white collar job make decent money and their lives are chugging along. It's the exact opposite for conservatives; they are usually under-educated, work brutal blue collar jobs, and slowly see their lives being drained from them. There is no vacation time, no latte time at Starbucks to ruminate about the latest gossip, no going sailing in Boca. They are the 21st century version of slaves and if someone told you that some orange goblin can make everything better wouldn't you be glued to your seat attentive about that person and the process he's involved with. Hence Repubs have this immovable iron base... meanwhile liberals just don't feel it enough to care much.

[Tgo01]

During the 2016 campaign, a journalist remarked that the big question here wasn't whether the GOP could survive a Trump loss- it was whether they could survive a Trump win. That turned out to be rather prescient.

Says the Democrat, who many Americans think the only message they have is "Impeach Trump!"

Yeah, I'm sure some middle class family whose breadwinner just lost their job is looking towards the Democrats and their "message" to help them come the next election.

[time4fun]

Frankly it's not going to matter.

The thing you're not getting about Democrats is that liberals (most) just don't give a shit. They work at minimum some 9-5 white collar job make decent money and their lives are chugging along. It's the exact opposite for conservatives; they are usually under-educated, work brutal blue collar jobs, and slowly see their lives being drained from them. There is no vacation time, no latte time at Starbucks to ruminate about the latest gossip, no going sailing in Boca. They are the 21st century version of slaves and if someone told you that some orange goblin can make everything better wouldn't you be glued to your seat attentive about that person and the process he's involved with. Hence Repubs have this immovable iron base... meanwhile liberals just don't feel it enough to care much.

Polling suggests otherwise.

One of my favorite polls is Economist/YouGov because they provide the cross-tabs on EVERYTHING. It's a fascinating way to dig in deep on the way demographics color interpretation. This is from the last one:

How concerned are you about improper relations between the Trump administration and Russia?
Overall-
Very/Somewhat: 55%
Not Very/Not At All: 35%
Not Sure: 11%

Democrats:
Very/Somewhat: 82%
Not Very/Not At All: 10%
Not Sure: 8%

Republicans:
Very/Somewhat: 29%
Not Very/Not At All: 62%
Not Sure: 8%

Independents:
Very/Somewhat: 49%
Not Very/Not At All: 36%
Not Sure: 14%

So if you look, it's really Republicans who don't care. Democrats and Independents do care. And PPP's recent polling finds that Trump voters are among the most woefully misinformed about the entire Russia situation, which would help explain how nonplussed they are. More of them believe Russia was actively working to help Clinton than Trump, and only about a quarter of them even want an investigation to go on into Trump's campaign. Political orientation does affect how you perceive the Russia/Trump collusion issue, but it's not that Democrats don't care. It's that Republicans don't care (and don't seem to be very well informed).

You did get me interested in this from an income perspective though. Maybe it turns out that lower income brackets don't care about this stuff (regardless of political affiliation). So I checked it out:

Under 50k-
Very/Somewhat: 53%
Not very/Not At All: 34%
Not Sure: 13%

50k-100k-
Very/Somewhat: 59%
Not Very/Not At All: 36%
Not Sure: 5%

100k+-
Very/Somewhat: 54%
Not Very/Not At All: 39%
Not Sure: 7%

It actually turns out that income has a statistically significant impact, but it's a very low impact. The number of people who do care is apparently parabolic (seems more like standard deviation though), and if anything, the people who make more are more likely to say they don't care than the people who make less.

I honestly hadn't given this piece much thought, but it was super interesting to see.

[Tgo01]

One of my favorite polls is Economist/YouGov

You just unironically said you like YouGov polls.

Might as well just pack up the internet now, boys. We just done peaked.

[time4fun]

You just unironically said you like YouGov polls.

Might as well just pack up the internet now, boys. We just done peaked.

I...don't have words for how bizarre this statement was.

Have you ever thought about doing research into the things you say before you say them?

[hello]

I...don't have words for how bizarre this statement was.

Have you ever thought about doing research into the things you say before you say them?

Conservatives like tgo are good people but somewhat simple in their outlook about the world. Look at his avatar; a dog reading a magazine, it's cute and even endearing, something someone who has an almost child-like intrepretation of the world would use. Perhaps it's due to fear, he's lack of knowledge; like the proverbial cave primitive first seeing fire, so he recedes back to the familiar of his childhood; "dogs acting silly can't hurt me" says the conservative mind... not like liberals, black people, and "fake news." Just let it be, let them lash out, they're scared is all.