Russia Just Invaded Ukraine

[Suppressed Poet]

I watched this scene unfold and I completely missed whatever it was that Zelensky did to make Trump suddenly angry. What do you think it was? Somebody said it was because Zelenski did not wear a suit.

I watched it twice now and tried to keep an open mind without emotional clouding with my second watch.

Vance turned up the aggression when stating that Zelensky should be thanking Trump for trying to save what is left of his country. Vance isn’t wrong, but that is definitely the moment it became unrecoverable.

Trump has his ego, and Zelensky made several suggestions that the United States in the past has not been able to guarantee peace terms. He was also trying to get Trump to call out Putin for war crimes and being the aggressor of the war. I agree with Trump that is not helpful when you are trying to mediate a peace deal. I do understand Zelensky wants a lasting peace deal with security assurances that prevent Putin from further aggression no matter who is POTUS, and I do think that needs to be part of the discussion with the mineral deal. The reality is though, Zelensky needs the USA and he is in no position to dictate terms that Russia pays war reparations. He also needs to accept there will be territorial concessions. I don’t like it, but Ukraine is not the victor of this war.

My opinion is Trump and Vance knew exactly what they were doing and how this would go down today before the meeting occurred. I believe their strategy is to force Ukraine to understand they need to make peace with concessions they may not like, otherwise they will lose support from the United States. I also believe they did this to get European leaders to step up their efforts and aid to Ukraine as they have much more to lose. We’ll see if it pays off, but I understand the strategy.

[Methais]

This seems like something that you should have read first Methais.

Oleksandr Dubinsky was arrested in 2023 and charged with treason, accused of collaborating with Russian intelligence. He remains in custody awaiting trial. He is no longer a sitting member of parliament, and can't initiate impeachment proceedings.

"...accused of collaborating with Russian intelligence," gee that sounds familiar.

Anyway, I didn't offer an opinion about it. I don't know who's who over there, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. It sounds to me, based on the wording in the screenshot from my previous post, that he's calling on Parliament to impeach him. I don't see anything in the tweet saying that he was initiating anything himself.

Big difference between "calling for" and "initiating."

Let's check the source and find out:


https://x.com/Dubinsky_pro/status/1895554358458097970

He does say he's a member of Parliament though. Maybe he just identifies as one?

A little further down his feed:



https://x.com/Dubinsky_pro/status/1895581662089564308

I'll check it later to see if a Community Note shows up.

This seems like something that you should have read first Ardwen.




Unrelated: Do we have Twitter in prison in the US?

[Methais]

Weird, when was the last time Elon Musk wore a suit and tie to meet any President, Trump ro other wise?

I was hoping Zelenskyy would show up in an Adidas tracksuit tbh.

One is a leader of a country who showed up with his hand out wanting us taxpayers to keep funding a war for him that nobody wants, and the other is working for free to audit the government to clean up the waste and corruption, which the majority of the country does want.

A sports coat is still > whatever Zelenskyy was wearing, but a suit would still be better.

[~Rocktar~]

My thought is that it is quite possible that this is all theater to get the point across to the Ukrainians and Europe to wake the fuck up that there would need to be concessions and that they have lots more at stake than the US does. The US is done being the bottomless wallet. And the US is not going to go to war to save Ukraine.

[~Rocktar~]

Hell, even Crenshaw gets it.

[ClydeR]

I watched it twice now and tried to keep an open mind without emotional clouding with my second watch.

Vance turned up the aggression when stating that Zelensky should be thanking Trump for trying to save what is left of his country. Vance isn’t wrong, but that is definitely the moment it became unrecoverable.

Trump has his ego, and Zelensky made several suggestions that the United States in the past has not been able to guarantee peace terms. He was also trying to get Trump to call out Putin for war crimes and being the aggressor of the war. I agree with Trump that is not helpful when you are trying to mediate a peace deal. I do understand Zelensky wants a lasting peace deal with security assurances that prevent Putin from further aggression no matter who is POTUS, and I do think that needs to be part of the discussion with the mineral deal. The reality is though, Zelensky needs the USA and he is in no position to dictate terms that Russia pays war reparations. He also needs to accept there will be territorial concessions. I don’t like it, but Ukraine is not the victor of this war.

My opinion is Trump and Vance knew exactly what they were doing and how this would go down today before the meeting occurred. I believe their strategy is to force Ukraine to understand they need to make peace with concessions they may not like, otherwise they will lose support from the United States. I also believe they did this to get European leaders to step up their efforts and aid to Ukraine as they have much more to lose. We’ll see if it pays off, but I understand the strategy.

I wrote the below post before reading your above post. We're not far apart..

I've had a chance to study it more. Here's what happened, which you can verify for yourself from the below quoted transcript.

1. Everything was going smoothly, like you normally see in these public settings with world leaders.
2. Then Vance asked if he could interject something.
3. Trump told Vance to proceed.
4. Vance told Zelenski that Ukraine should try diplomacy, instead of fighting. "The path to peace and the path to prosperity is, maybe, engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States' words mattered more than the president of the United States' actions,"said Vance, apparently unconcerned that he was not showcasing the diplomatic skills that he urged Zelenski to try.
5. Zelinksi responded that Ukraine signed a deal with Russia in the past and Russia violated it. I don't know whether or not that is true. Apparently neither did Vance, since he quickly changed the subject, a sure sign that someone is uncertain of a debating position.
6. Vance's tone heated, and he accused Zelinksi of being disrespectful by trying to litigate the issue in public.

Was Vance correct that Zelinksi was trying to litigate the subject? Vance is the one who brought it up and made a statement about Ukraine's conduct that Zelinksi believed to be false. It seems like Vance was very unprepared. He should have kept his mouth shut. Now, as a result of his statements, Trump's pride and ego have been activated.

Vance: “For four years, the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is, maybe, engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States’ words mattered more than the president of the United States’ actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That’s what President Trump is doing.”

Zelenskyy: “Can I ask you?”

Vance: “Sure. Yeah.”

Zelenskyy: “OK. So he (Putin) occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years — I’m not speaking about just Biden, but those times was (Barack) Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the --"


Trump: “2015?”

Zelenskyy: “2014.”

Trump: “Oh, 2014? I was not here.”

Vance: “That’s exactly right.”

Zelenskyy: “Yes, but during 2014 ‘til 2022, the situation is the same, that people have been dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, my bilateral conversation. And we signed with him, me, like, you, president, in 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him, (French President Emmanuel) Macron and (former German Chancellor Angela) Merkel. We signed ceasefire. Ceasefire. All of them told me that he will never go … But after that, he broke the ceasefire, he killed our people, and he didn’t exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners. But he didn’t do it. What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about? What do you mean?”

Vance: “I’m talking about the kind of diplomacy that’s going to end the destruction of your country. Mr. President, with respect, I think it’s disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict.”

Zelenskyy: “Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?”

Vance: “I have been to –”

Zelenskyy: “Come once.”

Vance: “I’ve actually watched and seen the stories, and I know that what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. Do you disagree that you’ve had problems, bringing people into your military?”

Zelenskyy: “We have problems –”

Vance: “And do you think that is respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?”

Zelenskyy: “A lot of questions. Let’s start from the beginning.”

More...

[Tgo01]

I watched it twice now and tried to keep an open mind without emotional clouding with my second watch.

I'm in the middle of watching it now for the first time and Zelensky is just coming off as a passive aggressive prick. I know his country is at war so he's not going to be jovial when discussing these issues, but he just keeps needling Trump.

Just now I watched the part where Zelensky said Putin has broken their promises many times, and Trump said something like "They haven't made a deal with met yet", implying Putin wouldn't dare break a promise made with Trump.

And they went back and forth a bit with Zelensky saying they did it while Trump was president, Trump said no they didn't, then Zelensky shot back with "They did it in 2016 when you were president!"

I'm kind of surprised Trump didn't correct him and say "Uh, I wasn't president in 2016, that fucking idiot Obama was." I think Trump was trying not to start shit though which is why he let it go, but Zelensky apparently just can't help himself and for some reason feels entitled to US tax payer dollars. Although I guess I can't blame him, Biden and the Democrats basically did just that.

So basically Zelensky admitted Trump was right that Russia didn't do shit while he was president and he only started shit while Democrats were president. I know Clyder, Back and the rest of the idiot brigade are going to chime in with "And Bush Jr!" As I said...only while Democrats were president.

[SHAFT]

I'm in the middle of watching it now for the first time and Zelensky is just coming off as a passive aggressive prick. I know his country is at war so he's not going to be jovial when discussing these issues, but he just keeps needling Trump.

Just now I watched the part where Zelensky said Putin has broken their promises many times, and Trump said something like "They haven't made a deal with met yet", implying Putin wouldn't dare break a promise made with Trump.

And they went back and forth a bit with Zelensky saying they did it while Trump was president, Trump said no they didn't, then Zelensky shot back with "They did it in 2016 when you were president!"

I'm kind of surprised Trump didn't correct him and say "Uh, I wasn't president in 2016, that fucking idiot Obama was." I think Trump was trying not to start shit though which is why he let it go, but Zelensky apparently just can't help himself and for some reason feels entitled to US tax payer dollars. Although I guess I can't blame him, Biden and the Democrats basically did just that.

So basically Zelensky admitted Trump was right that Russia didn't do shit while he was president and he only started shit while Democrats were president. I know Clyder, Back and the rest of the idiot brigade are going to chime in with "And Bush Jr!" As I said...only while Democrats were president.

You dumb fucking twat

[Tgo01]

You dumb fucking twat

lmao

Oh man, your butt hurt is always good for a laugh. So which part was I wrong about? Was Trump president in 2016 like Zelensky claimed? Has Russia only started shit with Ukraine while a Democrat was president or not?

I'm now watching Zelensky do an interview after this all and I laughed when I heard that Trump threw Zelensky out of the White House. Too fucking funny. Apparently the reason why Trump and Vance got so pissy with Zelensky was because this meeting was only supposed to be about the mineral deal and talks of security was supposed to happen later, but Zelensky ignored all of that and kept pushing for security deals. Supposedly even his own people were like "What the fuck were you thinking?"

Sorry not sorry that Ukraine can no longer use the US taxpayer as their personal piggy bank. Stop pushing racist DEI bullshit and woman-hating issues such as men playing in women's sports so you can win elections again, then maybe you can get another Democrat president who will sign a blank check to a foreign nation.

[Winter]

One is a leader of a country who showed up with his hand out wanting us taxpayers to keep funding a war for him that nobody wants

Basically because the US agreed to when they signed the Budapest Memorandum in 1994. TLDR version is Ukraine agreed to give up it's nuclear arsenal which at the time was the 3rd largest stockpile on the planet and in return the signatories would always support them in the event of an invasion, the signatories were Russia, the UK, the US, France, Kazakhstan and Belarus. Hilariously predictable Russia breached the memorandum in 2014 by annexing Crimea and was obviously sanctioned for it and burnt it's bridges with most of the planet. Only France, the US and the UK kept up their part of the bargain by supporting Ukraine with military aid.


I'm from the UK and incidentally and up to now we've only sent Ukraine enough aid so we can say we've honored the contract but not enough get them out of a stalemate which in it's self I think is a bit dubious. We're basically saying to the rest of the world yes it's safe to make any arrangement with UK, we won't default but we're only going to do the bare minimum to uphold it.