Tyranny of the ATF

[Suppressed Poet]

This might be my favorite thread of the year so far.

Thank you Suppressed Poet.

Agreed and you are most welcome.

Also, there are indeed lots of trannys at the ATF.

[Seran]

Ok cool. Yeah let’s make it a rule that to register to vote you have to visit your local DMV in person with all the appropriate identification to verify you are eligible to vote. The process to receive a federal voter registration card may take up to 2 years. You are also required to pass a literacy test & take a course on the civic responsibility you have with voting. You also need to pay a tax of $200 for the process of registering to vote. Every poll center across America must verify your voter registration card in person for you to legally cast your ballot in any federal election.

That’s not infringement, correct?

It's interesting that you would bring up voter rights and making registration more difficult when your party is doing just that. Don't even need to go into restricting balloting locations or having far more voting locations in dense urban areas requiring hours long wait while small conservative communities somehow get them in every neighborhood. The Constitution doesn't prescribe that voting be 'well-regulated' like it does firearms in the second amendment, as a matter of fact the text couldn't be simpler in the Twenty-Six Amendment:

The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

The text specifically prohibits the right of voting from being abridged. Meanwhile, your gun toting compatriots are trying to pretend the constitution doesn't specifically identify an armed citizenry must be well-regulated. Why? I think you pretty much identified it with an earlier remark about 'god-given rights'. You do realize that manifest destiny is only propaganda right? There is no eleventh commandment going on to say; "Thine house shall bear arms." and Remington or Smith and Wesson aren't missing apostles of Jesus Christ outside of southern baptist teachings.

[Suppressed Poet]

It's interesting that you would bring up voter rights and making registration more difficult when your party is doing just that. Don't even need to go into restricting balloting locations or having far more voting locations in dense urban areas requiring hours long wait while small conservative communities somehow get them in every neighborhood. The Constitution doesn't prescribe that voting be 'well-regulated' like it does firearms in the second amendment, as a matter of fact the text couldn't be simpler in the Twenty-Six Amendment:



The text specifically prohibits the right of voting from being abridged. Meanwhile, your gun toting compatriots are trying to pretend the constitution doesn't specifically identify an armed citizenry must be well-regulated. Why? I think you pretty much identified it with an earlier remark about 'god-given rights'. You do realize that manifest destiny is only propaganda right? There is no eleventh commandment going on to say; "Thine house shall bear arms." and Remington or Smith and Wesson aren't missing apostles of Jesus Christ outside of southern baptist teachings.

You went full retard on this post.

[Methais]

It's interesting that you would bring up voter rights and making registration more difficult when your party is doing just that. Don't even need to go into restricting balloting locations or having far more voting locations in dense urban areas requiring hours long wait while small conservative communities somehow get them in every neighborhood. The Constitution doesn't prescribe that voting be 'well-regulated' like it does firearms in the second amendment, as a matter of fact the text couldn't be simpler in the Twenty-Six Amendment:



The text specifically prohibits the right of voting from being abridged. Meanwhile, your gun toting compatriots are trying to pretend the constitution doesn't specifically identify an armed citizenry must be well-regulated. Why? I think you pretty much identified it with an earlier remark about 'god-given rights'. You do realize that manifest destiny is only propaganda right? There is no eleventh commandment going on to say; "Thine house shall bear arms." and Remington or Smith and Wesson aren't missing apostles of Jesus Christ outside of southern baptist teachings.

That sure is a lot of words just to shriek "That's d-d-d-different!!!!"

You went full retard on this post.

I just want to hear him tell us who is in charge of regulating these militias so I can laugh when he says the government again.

[Seran]

You went full retard on this post.

Well argued. Guess you really don't understand the difference between the Twenty Sixth and Second Amendments. Kind of sad really.

[Suppressed Poet]

Well argued. Guess you really don't understand the difference between the Twenty Sixth and Second Amendments. Kind of sad really.

Please answer my prior question. Why do you think the 2nd Amendment was written and ratified in the Bill of Rights? You make it sound like it was to give power to the federal government to regulate firearms. I don’t want to assume and I’ll give you the opportunity to clarify your position.

[~Rocktar~]

But it doesn’t, maybe if you read it, you’d see that, instead of making baseless assumptions.

It doesn’t cover existing rules because private sellers required zero checks federally, now they do.

WRONG, it changes the foundation of how a person is defined as a dealer and that DOES affect private sellers. It is moving people who sell a few guns a year or so from private seller into the realm of requiring an FFL. It does it with no legislative mandate for the change. And it does it with no quantitative definition of guidelines. Next bullshit lie you want to try and sell to take away people's rights?

Again, how much of my rights have to be sacrificed to ineffectively assuage your feelings?

[Seran]

Please answer my prior question. Why do you think the 2nd Amendment was written and ratified in the Bill of Rights? You make it sound like it was to give power to the federal government to regulate firearms. I don’t want to assume and I’ll give you the opportunity to clarify your position.

The conjecture has nothing to do with the topic, you're attempting to reinterpret the Constitution in a way that both the plaintext reading and at least one supreme court ruling contradicts. How about instead YOU tell every one else why both the ruling in 2008 on Heller and how the well-regulated clause in the Second Amendment supports your belief the ATF did something wrong.

[Suppressed Poet]

The conjecture has nothing to do with the topic, you're attempting to reinterpret the Constitution in a way that both the plaintext reading and at least one supreme court ruling contradicts. How about instead YOU tell every one else why both the ruling in 2008 on Heller and how the well-regulated clause in the Second Amendment supports your belief the ATF did something wrong.

I’ve told you several times and cited the decision. Well-regulated means well equipped / trained / armed. Militia means all able-bodied men outside of formal military service. It’s recognized that we have an individual (not collective) right to keep & bear arms. Going even further, the prefatory clause of the 2nd Amendment is not a hindrance or prerequisite to the operative clause, but just gives an explanation as to why the operative clause (shall not be infringed) is recognized as a right. This was all clarified in the 2008 decision you are referencing. Heller was a major win for gun rights yet you keep referencing it as a reason for gun control.

[drumpel]

I think Samson says it pretty good.