Things that made you Facepalm today (Political Version)

[C.Difficile]

Was best said by one of the parents: I hope this doesn't turn into a 2A debate, because nothing will get done. The problem with the anti gun people is that they begin the discussion with a 2A debate. There is no debate. It's settled law. Guns are here to stay. Now faced with that reality, the best course is to figure things out from there. Insisting that the 2A doesn't protect individual rights, or the bullshit about it being about the National Guard is not only wrong, but also serves to shut down discussion on a practical way forward.

BAN GUNS = Thoughts and prayers.

[Seran]

Was best said by one of the parents: I hope this doesn't turn into a 2A debate, because nothing will get done. The problem with the anti gun people is that they begin the discussion with a 2A debate. There is no debate. It's settled law. Guns are here to stay. Now faced with that reality, the best course is to figure things out from there. Insisting that the 2A doesn't protect individual rights, or the bullshit about it being about the National Guard is not only wrong, but also serves to shut down discussion on a practical way forward.

BAN GUNS = Thoughts and prayers.

Practical way forward? One side wants deadly weapons controlled, with background checks, wait periods and further red flag control. The other believes that will destroy society outright, that the government is trying to get them and any and all existing restrictions must be lifted. Just where is the compromise in /your/ opinion. Bear in mind, more innocents die here by gun violence than any other first world country with the status quo as it exists now.

[Seran]

Another alt-leftist that can't admit that the breakdown of the nuclear family has fucked our society.

We know for certain that the vast majority of mass murderers come from broken families, and more often than not, were parented by abusive mothers.

While our upbringing and environment plays a part in our development, each of us is responsible for our own actions and using the upbringing of a murderer or psychotic as an excuse for their actions is abhorrent.

The Right only has one thing correct in their argument, guns are a tool and neither good nor evil. But they're used in increasingly more common acts of senseless violence and evil, for that they need to be controlled and perpetrators several punished.

[C.Difficile]

Practical way forward? One side wants deadly weapons controlled, with background checks, wait periods and further red flag control. The other believes that will destroy society outright, that the government is trying to get them and any and all existing restrictions must be lifted. Just where is the compromise in /your/ opinion. Bear in mind, more innocents die here by gun violence than any other first world country with the status quo as it exists now.

It's a wicked hard problem for sure. Based on the current set of facts, it's unlikely any of those measure you mentioned would have stopped this particular individual. People thought he was a weirdo but that alone does not meet the threshold for a red flag. Though I am fairly sure even a low level mental health screen would have red flagged this guy. I'm pro 2A and would be willing to talk mental health screen but that would be a bridge too far for many.

A broad mental health crisis is definitely part of this odd conundrum, and not having insane asylums where society could lock up weirdos and throw away the key. I'd lean towards hardening schools as targets, mental health treatment availability. "Universal background checks" is a nice sound byte but wouldn't have stopped this guy or most of the other mass shooters, many of whom had clean records prior to their crimes.

[joeyb]

Was best said by one of the parents: I hope this doesn't turn into a 2A debate, because nothing will get done. The problem with the anti gun people is that they begin the discussion with a 2A debate. There is no debate. It's settled law. Guns are here to stay. Now faced with that reality, the best course is to figure things out from there. Insisting that the 2A doesn't protect individual rights, or the bullshit about it being about the National Guard is not only wrong, but also serves to shut down discussion on a practical way forward.

BAN GUNS = Thoughts and prayers.

this is right. nothing will be done even if another 100 Sandy Hooks happen, we'd still be waging this stupid fucking gun culture war.

it's all terrible and this is the dumbest country on the planet. both sides are worthless and there is no good solution.

[joeyb]

this whole thing is also a good illustration of how completely fucking useless cops are and they in no way exist to protect you or your children

[Seran]

It's a wicked hard problem for sure. Based on the current set of facts, it's unlikely any of those measure you mentioned would have stopped this particular individual. People thought he was a weirdo but that alone does not meet the threshold for a red flag. Though I am fairly sure even a low level mental health screen would have red flagged this guy. I'm pro 2A and would be willing to talk mental health screen but that would be a bridge too far for many.

A broad mental health crisis is definitely part of this odd conundrum, and not having insane asylums where society could lock up weirdos and throw away the key. I'd lean towards hardening schools as targets, mental health treatment availability. "Universal background checks" is a nice sound byte but wouldn't have stopped this guy or most of the other mass shooters, many of whom had clean records prior to their crimes.

No waiting would have definitely given this person sometime between purchasing the guns and when he actually took possession, there's a high likelihood that that amount of time could have tamed his impulse for Destruction. Maybe even a small chance is worth the world. Besides any person who needs a gun so desperately that they have to have it that very same day, probably shouldn't have it.

[C.Difficile]

this whole thing is also a good illustration of how completely fucking useless cops are and they in no way exist to protect you or your children

Any law enforcement officer worth his or her salt knows their role is not to stop crime. They are essentially a deterrent prior and an apprehender after. When they are able to actually stop a crime from occurring it's almost always pure chance.

They are also there to give people the illusion of safety. If people realized that their own safety is mostly their own responsibility, many would not be able to handle it.

[C.Difficile]

No waiting would have definitely given this person sometime between purchasing the guns and when he actually took possession, there's a high likelihood that that amount of time could have tamed his impulse for Destruction. Maybe even a small chance is worth the world. Besides any person who needs a gun so desperately that they have to have it that very same day, probably shouldn't have it.

I'd agree with that generally. he did buy his first rifle a week before the shooting though, on the 17th.

[Seran]

I'd agree with that generally. he did buy his first rifle a week before the shooting though, on the 17th.

Two week waiting period, bam. Maybe he would have done it before, maybe not, but something so simple as divorcing desperation or seeing a firearm as a solution to problems is a massive first step.

The second would be changing the way that politicians and the media point to Representatives on the other side as the devil incarnate. You should not lead by acting as if you're the only thing standing in between your political rivals enacting the final Purge against your constituents. To me that is high treason and yet increasingly common in today's political climate, which only leads to increased fear, desperation, and a belief that violence is the only way out.