Portland.

[FlayedAngel]

You're mocking me for "seeing Antifa everywhere". I see Antifa where they are. Buildings aren't burning themselves down.

No, I'm teasing you for your engagement in the term "Antifa" as a political boogeyman.

I knew you would latch onto that part which is why I edited my post to just say it was a weird analogy because it was.

That changes exactly none of the meaning of the analogy, so... how is it weird? I was referring to the underlying principle of refuting a word's weight in an attempt to downplay its applicability, not the meaning of the comparative word.

This is why it's a terrible analogy. You can't just choose a random word and apply my reasoning to that word. The word "racist" has a long history and is widely understood by everyone, except for those who want to misuse the word of course. "Implicit bias" as a phrase isn't even a hundred years old and didn't really have widespread usage prior to 10 years ago and is largely based on nothing at all.

Sorry you don't believe our understanding of social theory hasn't advanced in the last 100 (or even 20) years, but again: I was referring to the principle, not the word.

It's a meaningless term because how do you prove or disprove implicit bias? You can't.

I can say you have an extreme implicit bias towards people holding a conservative viewpoint, how can you defend against it? Anything you try to say to rationalize why you don't have an implicit bias towards conservatives I can just say your bias is unconscious so you don't even realize you're doing it.

That's because it's not empirical. In this context, it's not something you need to defend against -- it's an opinion formed by observation. I don't give a shit what anyone's implicit biases are, but we point them out to one another so that we have an opportunity to be more cognizant of them. If you feel that I'm biased against conservatives, that's something for me to be receptive to and examine critically, which I have done and will continue to do; it doesn't make you inherently right or wrong, and it doesn't mean that I have to change my mind based on your opinion... or vice versa.

This is exactly why echo chambers are bad, because they limit our exposure to conflicting viewpoints and increase our susceptibility to dogmatic indoctrination, and thus, make other viewpoints seem disproportionately alien and monstrous when we are exposed to them.

It has lost all meaning, your implicit bias just won't allow you to realize this.

Let me put it this way; if the "okay hand symbol" is racist, voting for Trump is racist, buying Goya products is racist, and the Aryan Brotherhood are racist, then how can you honestly say the word "racist" has meaning anymore? How can you look at those 4 things and honestly say they all fall under the term "racist."

The word has been rendered meaningless. I'm not saying there are no legit racists out there, which seems to be what you think I'm saying, I'm just saying the left has abused the word so much that it's just a shell of its former meaning.

That's a wild correlation, but sure. All you did was list four things, one of which is absolutely applicable... I would hardly call that grounds for rendering a word meaningless. Sure, the left's usage or over-usage of the word is debatable (and I would probably even agree with you, in some instances), but that doesn't render the word without inherent meaning.

Calling someone an ideologue doesn't make them a believer in that ideology, but doing or saying things strongly associated with that ideology does lend itself to causing others to create an association.

[FlayedAngel]

Portland loves to get naked. It's kinda their thing. I'm just surprised it was only one person.

You are absolutely correct and I'm sure we're just getting started... stay tuned, heh.

[Alashir]

Portland loves to get naked. It's kinda their thing. I'm just surprised it was only one person.

Lol you haven't lived until you've done the naked bike ride baby. It's hilarious because the police obv look the other way which...isn't exactly what's happening right now.

[Tgo01]

No, I'm teasing you for your engagement in the term "Antifa" as a political boogeyman.

Like I said I'm willing to hear your thoughts on who is setting fires and assaulting people and destroying property in Portland: ghosts, BLM, Antifa, or perhaps the feds are setting the fires themselves? Conspiracy theories abound! Or we can rely on good ol' Occam's razor and say it's Antifa.

That changes exactly none of the meaning of the analogy, so... how is it weird?

Because you're looking at this in a vacuum, like I just chose implicit bias at random. I explained why I felt this way, I'm not just saying words, hence the analogy to a random word like racism doesn't work.

Sorry you don't believe our understanding of social theory hasn't advanced in the last 100 (or even 20) years, but again: I was referring to the principle, not the word.

I am also referring to the principle. My problem isn't with the word "implicit" nor "bias" specifically.

In this context, it's not something you need to defend against

You don't think it's a pretty serious accusation to accuse someone of treating someone differently based on the color of their skin? I sure as hell think that's a very serious accusation and I want to see evidence to support said accusation. But that's the beauty of implicit bias isn't it? You don't need evidence, you just say it exists and tell everyone they are guilty of it.

it doesn't mean that I have to change my mind based on your opinion

There is nothing to change your mind about when it comes to implicit bias, remember it's something you do unconsciously.

This is exactly why echo chambers are bad, because they limit our exposure to conflicting viewpoints and increase our susceptibility to dogmatic indoctrination, and thus, make other viewpoints seem disproportionately alien and monstrous when we are exposed to them.

This is a fairly gross understanding of what I'm saying. I've read about implicit bias, I know what it's about, I know who pushes it, I happen to disagree with its premise. Me disagreeing with it doesn't mean I live in an echo chamber and limit my exposure to conflicting viewpoints.

one of which is absolutely applicable

Of course it is, that was my entire point. Everyone reading that list knows exactly which thing I listed you are referring to without you even having to say it, because that's a perfect example of what racism used to mean. But now there is a sizeable segment of the population (even right here on the forums) who would argue all 4 things I listed are examples of racism, and that's the problem.

When you say buying Goya products is comparable to Neo-Nazis then you have taken the bite out of the word "racism." Someone who gladly continues to buy Goya products isn't going to be swayed by accusations of racism anymore because they know they aren't comparable to Neo-Nazis yet they are being compared to one anyways.

[MokiePrime]

Lol you haven't lived until you've done the naked bike ride baby. It's hilarious because the police obv look the other way which...isn't exactly what's happening right now.

It's not even so much that they look the other way as it is that our state laws dictate that nudity is a valid form of artistic expression and political speech. It's also why exotic dancers here are permitted to get fully nude unlike many other places.

[Alashir]

It's not even so much that they look the other way as it is that our state laws dictate that nudity is a valid form of artistic expression and political speech. It's also why exotic dancers here are permitted to get fully nude unlike many other places.

Yea was reading that in a linked article. Makes me happy all the same.

[nocturnix]

It's sad that this is exactly why Democrats aren't protecting their citizens. This right here. They are waiting for shit to get serious, they are willing to look the other way as rioters burn down buildings, loot stores, and assault the police on a nightly basis, knowing full well their media lapdogs won't report on it.

Then when Trump finally says "Enough is enough!" and goes in to help they can downplay the riots as merely "protesters expressing their free speech" and portray Trump as some sort of tyrant for cracking down on violent crimes.

Seriously what the fuck is wrong with Democrats? Why do you keep electing these monsters into office? This shit is unfolding before our very eyes; people being beaten in the streets, entire city blocks being taken over, these rioters starting buildings on fire on a nightly basis, businesses being looted, people being murdered in zones that the local and state government allowed the rioters to occupy, and you're all fine Democrats continuing to allow this shit to happen because you think it will make Trump look bad when he cracks down on violent criminals.

The fuck is wrong with you to keep voting for this shit?

Its funny because if you find and replace democrats with republicans in your statement we are basically echoing the same frustrations.

I dont think our views are that vastly far off in the end, but we are polarized by the election and political system in America:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MykMQfmLIro

[Tgo01]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MykMQfmLIro

Eh, no system is perfect really.

At least we directly vote for our president, in some countries it's the leader of the party who has the most seats in congress, which just seems odd to me.

[Tgo01]

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...792944128?s=20

Peaceful protesters in Portland push an officer to the ground who was trying to make an arrest so the Antifa goon could get away.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...187879937?s=20

Largely peaceful protesters in Portland tear down a barrier protecting a federal courthouse.

[nocturnix]

Eh, no system is perfect really.

At least we directly vote for our president, in some countries it's the leader of the party who has the most seats in congress, which just seems odd to me.

Perfect? You think 2 parties is an effective and democratic way to govern a country of 300+ million people? If it were perfect then why are buildings burning, why are you so pissed off at democrats, why is the US leading the pack GLOBALLY of corona fuck-ups, why do we have the worst education, literacy and highest amount of citizens in prison in the world? I think we can both agree our country is not perfect right now. And the election system we have is not helping that, it is in fact dividing americans so those in power (on BOTH sides) can fuck us normal people over. You think its only democrats who could ever do wrong i suppose, but its happening on both sides. I identify as a liberal, but I am not behind my party on MANY issues. I try to see conservative side too and do appreciate some things, but the two parties we have now are far from fitting my political views.