[Transgender] Ben Shapiro is awesome

[Latrinsorm]

And you're picking out whatever you want to try to prove your case.

Yes, I am citing the things that prove I am right. Isn't that... I mean, isn't that the point of this? You believe something, I believe something, we appeal to external sources so as to find who has the believable belief. Or do you merely intend to signal your virtuousness to those who believe as you do?

Short of those fish or amphibians I mentioned, there is no other species that can at will change gender.

I'm not going to tell you to look at a definition I pull out of the air. Why should you trust me? I am going to tell you to look at the definition subzero cited. He's (ostensibly) on your side, and even his definition that he produced of his own free will says that gender and sex aren't the same thing.

This isn't a debate.

Your intelligence or rationality isn't in question.

This is a specific fact that you either know or you don't.

And that is why your side has always lost and will always lose.

[subzero]

I can find a great many people who don't accept relativistic physics too. Doesn't make it any less empirical, or them any less wrong. What is it that you think empirical means, anyway?

Empirical does not mean correct. This whole gender thing is based on the beliefs and claims of people. There are many people who claim that they have been abducted by aliens. Many of them will share similar stories about their experiences with the little green men. I reject those claims just as I reject the idea that gender needs to be this amorphous mess based on one's feelings. I have never filled out a form that asked for both my sex and my gender. This is because they mean the same thing. One question on the topic with one answer is all that is necessary.

[subzero]

Let me stop you here. My argument has never been people who are born sterile. There are many other ways for a human to not be able to produce children.
A six year old boy physiologically cannot produce children, but is male. Women post-menopause cannot bear children, yet they remain female.Nobody's telling you how you should think. We're just telling you what is factually the case. If you want to be factually incorrect, have fun with that.

You know damn well what we mean when we say that men are able to impregnate woman and woman are able to become impregnated and carry a child. We're not making warning labels for medication here. You don't really expect us to write out all the fine print, do you?

I am going to tell you to look at the definition subzero cited. He's (ostensibly) on your side, and even his definition that he produced of his own free will says that gender and sex aren't the same thing.

No, it clearly stated that gender can be defined as sex. This has traditionally been the way the word has been used. It also states that this new concept of gender that you speak of is a recent notion that some people are beginning to accept.

Oh, and, I think I missed it somewhere. How did you say you felt about men-who-think-they're-women beating the shit out of real women? I know it probably shouldn't even need to be asked since you're pro-trans, but I am curious nonetheless.

[Latrinsorm]

Empirical does not mean correct.

Cool story. I asked what you think it DOES mean though, not what it doesn't.

This whole gender thing is based on the beliefs and claims of people. There are many people who claim that they have been abducted by aliens. Many of them will share similar stories about their experiences with the little green men. I reject those claims just as I reject the idea that gender needs to be this amorphous mess based on one's feelings. I have never filled out a form that asked for both my sex and my gender. This is because they mean the same thing. One question on the topic with one answer is all that is necessary.

Like age, this is another inapt analogy. I understand that you think they are really devastating retorts, but out here in the real world you're straining to do some 'splaining.

You know damn well what we mean when we say that men are able to impregnate woman and woman are able to become impregnated and carry a child.

I do know very well what you mean: that except for all the ways you're wrong, you're right. I've never said otherwise! I only disagree (with all due respect) which specific times you are right or wrong.

No, it clearly stated that gender can be defined as sex.

It's hilarious, in a disturbing way, that you honestly believe that's what it said.

[Methais]

Most humans are born with ten fingers, in the same way that most cars have solid roofs.
It would be incorrect to say a car is defined as having a solid roof, because ragtop convertibles exist.
It would be incorrect to say a human is defined as having ten fingers, because humans with more or less exist.
And it would be incorrect to say a male is defined as capable of impregnating someone, because many males cannot.

That's a really stupid analogy as a convertible is an intentional design. Nobody is like "Hey honey let's have a kid with 12 fingers."

Try making a similar analogy but with a car having 4 tires.

[Methais]

Let me stop you here. My argument has never been people who are born sterile. There are many other ways for a human to not be able to produce children.
A six year old boy physiologically cannot produce children, but is male. Women post-menopause cannot bear children, yet they remain female.Nobody's telling you how you should think. We're just telling you what is factually the case. If you want to be factually incorrect, have fun with that.

Because a child whose balls haven't dropped yet is the exact same thing as someone using technology to artificially change genders right?

Take technology out of the picture and what are their options for swapping genders? Serious question because the answer is pretty much take an axe to your dick and hope you don't bleed out after and that's about it.

[Ashliana]

Because a child whose balls haven't dropped yet is the exact same thing as someone using technology to artificially change genders right?

Take technology out of the picture and what are their options for swapping genders?

Not to be a stickler, but, using their own terminology, they're using surgery to change their sex characteristics to match the "gender" that's purely in their own mind. The only people who claim it's possible to "change genders" are people who claim to be "genderfluid," the fancier, "I'm special, look at me" way of describing yourself as not particularly gender-stereotype-conforming.

Honestly, breaking down sex vs. gender is one of the places that the trans community starts losing people. Especially when certain trans advocates start arguing that not only is gender merely a social construct, sex is as well.

It's not surprising that even allies get confused when major trans advocates disagree with each other on the most fundamental concepts.

[Methais]

Not to be a stickler, but, using their own terminology, they're using surgery to change their sex characteristics to match the "gender" that's purely in their own mind. The only people who claim it's possible to "change genders" are people who claim to be "genderfluid," the fancier, "I'm special, look at me" way of describing yourself as not particularly gender-stereotype-conforming.

Honestly, breaking down sex vs. gender is one of the places that the trans community starts losing people. Especially when certain trans advocates start arguing that not only is gender merely a social construct, sex is as well.

It's not surprising that even allies get confused when major trans advocates disagree with each other on the most fundamental concepts.

Some are at the point where they're just making shit up as they go along now imo. Either way none of this would be a thing without technology, so there's nothing natural about any of it.

Those people are the ultimate hipsters. They're so non-conformist they can't even accept that male and female are the only genders so they just start making shit up to try and be edgy and then get upset when people don't buy into their ridiculous bullshit.

[subzero]

Cool story. I asked what you think it DOES mean though, not what it doesn't.Like age, this is another inapt analogy. I understand that you think they are really devastating retorts, but out here in the real world you're straining to do some 'splaining.I do know very well what you mean: that except for all the ways you're wrong, you're right. I've never said otherwise! I only disagree (with all due respect) which specific times you are right or wrong.It's hilarious, in a disturbing way, that you honestly believe that's what it said.

It's alright. I didn't really expect you to comment on men-who-think-they're-women getting licensed to enter an MMA cage and beat up real women.

[Gelston]

This thread has been a giant Latrin derpage.