Bigshot and Crossbow Problems

[phalen33]

Umm.. Yeah, archers are like casters. You suck at first. So I would second a claid to start with. Use a claid or sword and board until you are closer to 20. Right now you can't hide and you can't aim. You are going to just die die die.

Also you can set your stats to whatever you want for first 20 levels and then fix your stats right before you turn 20. So you can set your strength for 100 right now which would help with your cock times. What race and profession are you playing?

Right now you can't hide and you can't aim. If you absolutely have to do crossbows then you are better off firing from the open and not aiming. Cock the cross bow, load, wait for rat to attack, kneel, fire, stand.

I would strongly suggest using anything other then ranged for at least the first 15 levels. If you still want crossbows then I will see what I can come up with.

[phalen33]

Also personally I think mechanical crossbows are the only real way to go. 10 second cock time plus 4 seconds to aim fire from hiding makes that the slowest weapon in the game. Even with a mechanical crossbow which is 2 seconds + 4 second aimed firing from hiding still makes it a little slow.

[Whirlin]

And people are so defensive of how bad the crossbows are. I don't get how people can just get so used to a bad mechanic that they just accept it and project all of the game's good qualities onto a turd. Crossbows are a turd. They need to be fixed and they've needed to be fixed for a long time. The one thing Gemstone players need to learn is the the attitude at the player's corner is the attitude that is the positive one, not the ostrich with the head in the sand. That's why I always liked coming here, people were real about things.

Why does everything need to be viable? Take a look at the variety of OHE weapon types available: 16 different weapons that can be swung as OHEs. Why should a whip-blade be just as viable as a handaxe, broadsword, or swinging a bastard sword one handed? Does that make sense logically for a flimsy whipy blade to inflict as much damage?

Weapons are inherently uneven by design. If you want to use an inferior weapon to fit your RP style, that's entirely your decision, but that's an internal conflict about your own priorities, not a design concern.

[phalen33]

Oh Whirlin snap!

kklimpsword.jpg

[phalen33]

IMO. Crossbows are like hurling. Sure you can get a bunch of daggers off the shelf and go hurling. But it's more for shits and giggles. You aren't going to be proficient unless you have a returner or unlimited bandolier. With crossbows you need a mechanical crossbow. They make the cock times manageable and you can cock it without coming out of hiding. My ranger can stay hidden and kill a room full of critters without coming out once.

Anyways, I will write a script when I get home today and post it up.

[phalen33]

Ok, so here is a rather simple script for a crossbow. I highly recommend taking out the hiding part until you are old enough that you can actually stay hidden while firing. Regular crossbows suck as they knock you out of hiding when you cock them. That's one of the big advantages of a mechanical crossbow. I died a few times testing this script while hunting rats.. Which is sad really. You have a lot of power with a crossbow kneeling, but you die quite easily.

Anyways, copy the code to a text file, name it something .lic and then put it in your lich/scripts/ folder. In bigshot set your hunting command to, script whateveryounamedyourscript and the script should run when bigshot attacks something.

You may also want to change the quiver to wherever you keep your bolts. Anything you want added then let me know.

if (checkleft != nil) && (checkleft != "crossbow") 
	fput "stow left"
	fput "unsheath"
	sleep 0.1
end
if (checkright != nil)
	fput "stow right"
	sleep 0.1
end
	
result = fput "look at my crossbow"

if result =~ /not cocked/
	fput "cock my crossbow"
	waitrt?
	fput "get 1 bolt from my quiver"
	fput "load my crossbow"
elsif result =~ /not loaded/
	fput "get 1 bolt from my quiver"
	fput "load my crossbow"
end

until checkkneeling
	fput "kneel"
end

until checkhidden
	fput "hide"
	sleep 1
	waitrt?
end

until checkstance == 'offensive'
	fput "stance offensive"
	sleep 0.1
end

fput "fire"

waitrt?

until checkstanding
	fput "stand"
end

until checkstance == 'defensive'
	fput "stance defensive"
	sleep 0.1
end

[Maerit]

Also personally I think mechanical crossbows are the only real way to go. 10 second cock time plus 4 seconds to aim fire from hiding makes that the slowest weapon in the game. Even with a mechanical crossbow which is 2 seconds + 4 second aimed firing from hiding still makes it a little slow.

Mechanical crossbows are advantageous to some professions. For example, a 608 ranger has 3s cast RT after casting 608. During this time, you cannot fire a bow, but you can cock a crossbow. This allows you to use the cast RT to cock the crossbow, and then fire it immediately after the RT ends for 1s less RT than if you had used a bow.

Mechanical crossbows also come with significant advantages to encumbered and weaker professions. The fire time is static on a crossbow. No amount of strength or encumbrance will add to the fire RT of a crossbow. Similarly, for mechanical crossbows, the cock time is static.

The final playstyle advantage is for professions with access to stamina reduction (monk) or celerity (wizards / imbeds) because the stamina cost to qstrike -1 with a mechanical crossbow is substantially lower than the stamina cost to qstrike with any bow types. 506 can reduce the RT of both cock and fire to 1 second with just 10 ranks in Air Lore. Similarly, the stamina cost is very low for Monks with 1213 running to qstrike both actions (like 10 and 12 stamina). It makes this a much more viable "fast firing" ranged attack.

Also, kneeling gives aiming bonuses and +AS making this weapon easier to aim in the early levels.

If all crossbows were mechanical, they would be the ideal ranged weapon for levels 0-45(ish)!

[phalen33]

Can't think of any profession they wouldn't be advantageous to over a standard crossbow. The simple fact that you can cock them and stay hidden makes them a must if you are sniping. Your example of casting 608 and cocking in the round time only works with a mechanical crossbow. A regular one would knock you out of hiding. Then with a mechanical crossbow you can cock and fire again from hiding which allows you to keep your AS boost from 608 for multiple shots on a single cast.

Now if you want to debate crossbow over bow then there are too many pros and cons to really make an absolute decision I think. Personally I'm tempted to roll up an elf or dwarf ranger and switch to bows just for the 3 second fire times. However, my halfling ranger is pretty damn deadly with a heavy mechanical crossbow.

For early levels 0-15 I still suggest sword and board or a claid.. Crossbows will be deadly, but unless you have a pocket wizard you will spending most of the time dead yourself.

[Donquix]

Mechanical crossbows are advantageous to some professions. For example, a 608 ranger has 3s cast RT after casting 608. During this time, you cannot fire a bow, but you can cock a crossbow. This allows you to use the cast RT to cock the crossbow, and then fire it immediately after the RT ends for 1s less RT than if you had used a bow.

Mechanical crossbows also come with significant advantages to encumbered and weaker professions. The fire time is static on a crossbow. No amount of strength or encumbrance will add to the fire RT of a crossbow. Similarly, for mechanical crossbows, the cock time is static.

The final playstyle advantage is for professions with access to stamina reduction (monk) or celerity (wizards / imbeds) because the stamina cost to qstrike -1 with a mechanical crossbow is substantially lower than the stamina cost to qstrike with any bow types. 506 can reduce the RT of both cock and fire to 1 second with just 10 ranks in Air Lore. Similarly, the stamina cost is very low for Monks with 1213 running to qstrike both actions (like 10 and 12 stamina). It makes this a much more viable "fast firing" ranged attack.

Also, kneeling gives aiming bonuses and +AS making this weapon easier to aim in the early levels.

If all crossbows were mechanical, they would be the ideal ranged weapon for levels 0-45(ish)!

mech xbows (and other scripted xbows that make the xbow not suck) do make it better and have some good use cases, but I dunno if it would be superior to regular bows still for people with sufficient strength. The double action of having to cock + fire is always kind of annoying, and because of the dual RT you end up with this weird spot for a couple seconds where things are alive, that even if the total rt of cock + fire was the same as just normal bow fire, the creature was alive until the very end of that time segment. versus with regular bow, it's dead or incapacitated at the start of the timeline, rather than the end.

Don't get me wrong, my rogue uses a mech crossbow and I love having it for him. He's a gnome, so being able to snipe the head in short order for <= 5m investment rather than a like, 30m investment for a bando (with all the problems of using a bando), returner, etc. was god damn amazing. But if you CAN use a comp or longbow properly, they're still better. You can always keep a crossbow cocked and ready to go if you need (finishing off a tough creature, etc.)

Also of note, heavy crossbows actually hit slightly harder than longbows on nearly everything. Their DFs are almost identical across the board, but xbows have a slightly better AvD. The heavy xbow has a slightly better DF against scale, but a slightly worse DF against chain.