415 With Fire Lore

[Fallen]

Thinking about it, Wizards might be in the same boat as Sorcerers on this one ... but just in a shittier boat.

Wizards are going to have 502 and 519 as their CS spells, not counting 409 and 415. 519 is getting nerfed to the point where I would argue it is less effective than 719, assuming you're hunting a magical creature. I say this because you need to train in at least SOME fire lore to get 519 good even post-nerf, where 719 is awesome with 0 outside skills.

You need something to fill the cap between 502 and 519. Your options are 409 and 415. I don't think you should have 415 replace Immolate, it should be seen as an in-between spell. Which reminds me, I need to post about 409 on the officials.

[Fallen]

How does this sound, B?

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Are there any plans to improve Elemental Blast via the ELR? If not, are the GMs open to discussion for improvements on the spell?

I ask because I believe it would benefit wizards to have a middling CS spell between 502 and 519. True, 415 exist, but that is quite a bit more mana, and running into the territory of Immolate as a high-end Direct-Damage CS spell. Improvements to this spell could cement its place as a staple in the warding wizard's mid-level arsinal.

Some ideas for improvement:

1. Allow this spell to be Channeled for added strength, in addition to allowing open-hands and higher stance for more damage. Adding a charge mechanic (like 312) would also work.

2. At X ranks of E-lore you unlock an added cycle of elemental damage. Short and sweet, but a lot like E-strike.

3. As the spell is Elemental BLAST Allow the ability to unlock maneuver-based or splash-based secondary damage at the time of cast. Damage type and % chance is dependent on E:lore.

Number 3 is my favorite, as it would be fairly unique amongst CS spells.

The trick is you need to make the percent chance (unless you go for a straight unlock) high enough so that it is reliable at lower to mid levels. Not so high that you're already at the point where 409 is being outclassed by 415 and 519 in terms of mana availability to desired result ratio. If you can reliably get 2 casts of 415 for the same amount of lore it takes to get secondary effects to 409, then you're no longer in the realm of properly scaling mana efficiency.

[Barundar]

The fact that I never even think about this spell is probably testament to the fact that it needs some kind of attention.

All the idea's seem great.

Channel isn't something I'm terribly familiar with but it sure seems like it should be available on all CS spells, or at least the ones that deal damage. Feel free to put me in my place if there are good reasons this isn't being done.

It costs about 1/3 less mana, so maybe the lore threshold should be similarly priced, with the chance to get more interesting buffs post 100.

Number three does sound a touch similar to the added effect on 415, just changing E:lore with attunement. And maybe there's a place for that. With just some kind of extra oomph, particularly the kind that relies on lores, 409 could suddenly become useful. I guess I'd just like to see it be a little more different than 415, maybe a zero damage RT thing with a flashy description when it lands?

Your point on balancing the two so mana considerations are taken into account is well taken, hadn't thought of that initially.

[Silvean]

I can't imagine sorcerers use 409 or 415 much as is, even if they fill a gap. I'm starting to think Disintegrate (705) is seriously underrated, especially since it provides a third damage cycle on stunned and undead.

[Barundar]

it should be seen as an in-between spell.

And as I think a little more, I'm not sure that this is the right philosophy for wizards. Or at least not where the design intent was going. If we had in-between spells we'd just progress up the bolt ranks until we all used major shock or hurl boulder constantly. I suspect that we're supposed to be applying our large array of spells based on the current situation. Though there aren't a lot of different hunting situations at cap, but maybe I'm just being myopic about what's good for my level range at the potential expense of other wizards.

Of course this may all be totally pointless since it's a 400 circle spell and wasn't designed just for wizards. But that's a huge part of the problem for me too.

415 was already useful to me in places where fire spells could blow me up and I still wanted to use my CS to hunt. It actually suited the philosophy of situational use perfectly. Now it's a multi-opponent damage and knockdown beast. I haven't even maxed my CS for the minor circle and I could absolutely rely on it to hunt the Rift as my only spell right now. I don't like that, it's too powerful for a minor circle spell. Particularly one that's available to the majority of classes (of course CS caps will favor wizards and sorcs). It gets worse with the prospect of the proposed immolation nerfs. My best setup might be to use the evoke version of 519 as a multi-round disabler on a single target and then switch to 415 to actually hurt something. That's just dumb.

Someone convince me I'm wrong, please.

[Fallen]

Edit: I think you meant 415. If so, disregard the rant below.

More options = better hunting. This spell would be helpful at mid level ranges, lets say 30-60. Less so at near/at cap versus 2 casts of 415 with lore behind it.

409 and 415 will never be a staple spell of rogues and warriors because even with 101 ranks of Minor Elemental, they would lack the secondary CS gained from training in other spell circles. That isn't even mentioning the massive cost of elemental lores for squares. Bottom line, if ever it becomes feasible they are so far past the cap it doesn't matter.

For bards, They have Disruption, which would easily trump both 409 and 415. They too will suffer from CS issues and lore costs, but not to the extent of squares. If they can hunt with it, again, more power to them. It would be sub-optimal.

For sorcerers, yes, this COULD become something they might actually use. The issue again boils down to CS. Their secondary circle spells do not help as much as those of a wizard. Short of a TD pushdown this won't be more than filling a niche which could arguably be better served by casting Disintegrate.

Just because it is a minor circle doesn't mean it cannot have a viable hunting spell. If it was Immolate at 415 I would agree it is too powerful. If Immolate was brought down so low as to be equal with Elemental Strike, that doesn't mean E-Strike should be nerfed, it most definitely means Immolate should be buffed. The same goes for any sorcerer circle spell of that level range.

If 409 was improved where it could be your opener, followed by 519, it wouldn't be so dumb. For instance:

Suggestions continued...

4. The target suffers negative crit padding and/or higher DFs to a given element. You've just blasted it's defenses, so it will be in a weakened state. Like 502's big brother.

5. You blast defensive spells off of the target. Probably best to tie this to Fire lore.

Either of those would make 409 useful at middling levels to follow up with a bolt, or at higher levels to follow up with Immolate (or a more costly/powerful bolt).

Again. More options = better hunting.

[Barundar]

Yep, absolutely meant 415. I'm all for more options and have zero issue with some buffs on 409. I'd welcome a reason to use it. My concerns are purely about 415 vs. 519.