Thread for Things That Made You Frown Today

[Silvean]

I am neither proud, nor ashamed to be white, because I don't identify myself with the billion other white people who live vastly different lives than I do.

So, what is happening when a person says they are "proud to be black," for instance? I don't believe the statement is written onto a blank slate. It is not a solitary statement, it is a response. It is a response to centuries of American history and culture announcing, "you should be ashamed to be black."

Now a person may argue that the statement "proud to be white" is equally in response to an extremely young cultural narrative aimed at instilling contemporary white guilt for the crimes of white ancestors. There are a few problems with this stance; perhaps I can pick out the two least debatable. One: the existence of a cultural guilt narrative is not widely accepted in the same way that the obviously fraught history of black Americans is. Two: the language of "white pride" has been entirely tainted by hardcore racists. The idea of "black pride" has been ill used as well but this never overcame its positive values.

It is worth noting that Italian pride, Irish pride, and perhaps Catholic pride all have a positive history in our country as well. Again, each of these cases involves a people who have suffered discrimination and maintain an interest in keeping a memory of shared history and cultural identity alive.

[Ker_Thwap]

So, what is happening when a person says they are "proud to be black," for instance? I don't believe the statement is written onto a blank slate. It is not a solitary statement, it is a response. It is a response to centuries of American history and culture announcing, "you should be ashamed to be black."

Now a person may argue that the statement "proud to be white" is equally in response to an extremely young cultural narrative aimed at instilling contemporary white guilt for the crimes of white ancestors. There are a few problems with this stance; perhaps I can pick out the two least debatable. One: the existence of a cultural guilt narrative is not widely accepted in the same way that the obviously fraught history of black Americans is. Two: the language of "white pride" has been entirely tainted by hardcore racists. The idea of "black pride" has been ill used as well but this never overcame its positive values.

It is worth noting that Italian pride, Irish pride, and perhaps Catholic pride all have a positive history in our country as well. Again, each of these cases involves a people who have suffered discrimination and maintain an interest in keeping a memory of shared history and cultural identity alive.

Exactly, it's not written on a blank slate. Thus when someone says it, I look for what they're really saying. Pride is a tricky thing to discuss because you don't know if they're just stating it as a reaction to persecution, or if there's something inherent in their behavior that they're proud of. It would be much easier if everyone agreed to use "not ashamed" in the first instance and "proud" in the second.

[JackWhisper]

ROFL at Wrathbringer.

[Latrinsorm]

It's all about the context surrounding how and when it's said.

I'd suggest being more specific about why you're proud of what you claim to be proud of. I'm proud that I passed on one grandfather's work ethic, and didn't pass on my other grandfather's alcoholism, that I was able to raise my girls to think for themselves, proud of my career which helped others. If I try to jam all that into "Proud to be Irish/White" it just seems kind of stupid to me. It's far too general to be meaningful.

So, when I hear anyone say proud to be (insert general race/skin tone/heritage) I just kind of chuckle at them and wonder what they're thinking.

Very recently in American history, a common theme was for minorities to try and pass as white: everything from the language they used to how they styled their hair to how they dressed. Why do you think an Afro is called an Afro, but unkempt hippie hair isn't called a Euro? These pressures have been greatly reduced by the successful invasion of our private lives by the federal government to ensure civil rights, not to mention by raw demographics, but they still exist.

I am neither proud, nor ashamed to be white, because I don't identify myself with the billion other white people who live vastly different lives than I do.

For all the whining of people such as Methais, there's no pressure on you to be ashamed of whiteness, so there's no need for you to assert your pride.

[Jeril]

ROFL at Wrathbringer.

I love that show.

[JackWhisper]

I don't watch it, but Wrath's post made that fit so beautifully, I had to post it. Hahahaha.

[Ker_Thwap]

Very recently in American history, a common theme was for minorities to try and pass as white: everything from the language they used to how they styled their hair to how they dressed. Why do you think an Afro is called an Afro, but unkempt hippie hair isn't called a Euro? These pressures have been greatly reduced by the successful invasion of our private lives by the federal government to ensure civil rights, not to mention by raw demographics, but they still exist.For all the whining of people such as Methais, there's no pressure on you to be ashamed of whiteness, so there's no need for you to assert your pride.

I have no idea of what you're getting at, nor why you felt you needed to reply to my post. You seem to be rambling.

[Gelston]

You don't say you're proud to be white. Instead you say "I'm proud to be an American."

[Latrinsorm]

I have no idea of what you're getting at, nor why you felt you needed to reply to my post. You seem to be rambling.

That's what they're thinking, a lot of the time.

[Jeril]

You don't say you're proud to be white. Instead you say "I'm proud to be an American."

I think more people need to focus on that part.