Donald Sterling and Political Theory

[Laviticas]

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

That says "more perfect."
The founding fathers understood that perfection wasn't possible, but was something to strive for. That means doing what you can.

Do you hate the founding fathers, lavaticas?

(Also of note are the bits about the general welfare and justice.)

Yet, no where in there does it say, make laws for special groups of people. Equal = Equal not equal = I'm black I need special laws. Point to me one civil right that is being denied to blacks in todays age by our government? just one.

[waywardgs]

Yet, no where in there does it say, make laws for special groups of people. Equal = Equal not equal = I'm black I need special laws. Point to me one civil right that is being denied to blacks in todays age by our government? just one.

Not by the government (although one could argue that policies like nyc's stop-and-frisk do). But by lawbreakers like mr. sterling here. This is why we have a government, and laws.

[Thondalar]

That says "more perfect."
The founding fathers understood that perfection wasn't possible, but was something to strive for. That means doing what you can.

This isn't in dispute. As I've said numerous times, I don't think anyone here is evil and wants to destroy the world. We all want to do what's right, we just disagree on what that is. If we could approach discussions from that direction instead of "you hate America", I think it would be a bit better for everyone involved.

(Also of note are the bits about the general welfare and justice.)

Again, I don't think anyone disputes this. However, if you research the Founders, you can only come to one conclusion...the term "general welfare" doesn't refer to massive government programs, it refers to not having government get in the way of peoples' ability to pursue happiness. Justice is equally important to a successful society, but currently our federal US Code of Law is over 200,000 pages long...and that's just federal laws.

It is my firm belief that we are at the point of overcompensation.

[Gelston]

This isn't in dispute. As I've said numerous times, I don't think anyone here is evil and wants to destroy the world.

I do.

[Jeril]

I do.

You don't count.

[Laviticas]

Not by the government (although one could argue that policies like nyc's stop-and-frisk do). But by lawbreakers like mr. sterling here. This is why we have a government, and laws.

In this case of asshole Mr. Sterling, no laws were broken, he simply spoke ignorant words. Though the gold digging whore did break laws, but this is ok right, because she's black?

[Latrinsorm]

So we go back to mans beginnings? I know a lot of Jews are owed a lot of money then, those pyramids must have been a bitch.

It's irrelevant how long ago something happened, because by definition we can't make restitution to dead victims or punish dead perpetrators. All that matters is the state of play today. If you can demonstrate that there is a Jewish wage gap, then we should take action about it.

So violence against one group of people is worse than violence against another group, that's racism in it's purest form. Cops are not a race of people.

If I claim that more violence against one group is bad, that necessarily implies that all violence is equally bad per capita. 1% murdered black people is as bad as 1% murdered white people, the problem is that it isn't 1% to 1%.

The Irish: Was that voluntary servitude when they were handed a gun and told to go fight for the Union as soon as they stepped off the boats to gain citizenship. Or should they just have stayed in Ireland and starved to death?

Forced military drafts were a big problem, and it's good that they're gone. Even still, you and I are all for programs that give veterans special treatment, because they're incapable of doing anything without civilians' help. Right?

Wage gap: Does not matter to me, if you can pull the same weight, you deserve the same pay. Just so happens women are better at some skillsets than men and men better at other skillsets than women. Now you can call me a sexist, I guess I can look in a mirror and see that men and women are not the same, physically or mentally.

This is very much like Jarvan's argument, and it fails in the same way when you see the wage gap exists in unskilled labor, too.

[Latrinsorm]

In this case of asshole Mr. Sterling, no laws were broken, he simply spoke ignorant words. Though the gold digging whore did break laws, but this is ok right, because she's black?

She didn't break any laws, because she didn't publicize the tapes. Recording someone at their request is legal.

However, if you research the Founders, you can only come to one conclusion...the term "general welfare" doesn't refer to massive government programs, it refers to not having government get in the way of peoples' ability to pursue happiness.

You can only come to one conclusion, but that says more about you than it does the data.

[waywardgs]

In this case of asshole Mr. Sterling, no laws were broken, he simply spoke ignorant words. Though the gold digging whore did break laws, but this is ok right, because she's black?

Im talking about his housing discrimination lawsuits. Please try to keep up.

[Thondalar]

Think of it as a baseball diamond where someone has inexplicably dug a 20 foot hole between home and first. How long do you put dirt in the hole? Until it's filled.

I think you could get a majority to agree on when a hole is filled, because there would be measurable physical evidence that the hole is indeed filled. Human nature isn't nearly that simple.

We're never going to have a society 100% free of murder either (even with universal surveillance) but that doesn't mean we're wasting money on homicide detectives.

Again, terrible example. There are no bias police. (yet)

Speaking of homicide detectives, we also have laws that violence against police officers is punished more severely. This does not imply that police are incapable of protecting themselves, or that we look down on them in any other way. It only implies that we have a special interest in discouraging violence against them. For police, because they are the last line of public defense against crime. For minorities, because they are disproportionately targeted for violence.

In both cases, they are emotional responses that have very little actual impact on anything. But it's what we do, so whatever.

This feels familiar somehow. Check page 57. As with women, the wage gap is present in every occupation: food preparation, janitorial, secretarial, farming, construction. It is only more pronounced in professional occupations.

Notice how much higher the median pay is for Asians than even whites? Now let's look a bit further up the chart at the overwhelming number of Asians in the job market with at least a bachelor's degree, compared to whites. You think those things might be related somehow? A difference in median pay isn't because there are raging racist employers holding the black man down. If you want to discuss why blacks are less educated, on average, that's fine...but don't try to act like it's racism in the workplace.

Anecdotal as it is, I recently promoted a black guy to management...and guess what? I pay him 10k less a year than I do my other two managers, both of whom are white. Because he's black, right? No...because he doesn't have a college degree and doesn't have as much experience. But he's reliable, responsible, and does a good job, so I promoted him to a few k over the company minimum. If he keeps doing a good job he can get raises annually until he's at the same level as the other two, or promoted further up the ladder...but I simply can't start him at the same salary as people who are entirely more qualified. I'm almost positive I'm not the only employer in this country in that situation.