Redux (Order of Operations)

[Riltus]

The purpose of this post is to explain how damage is reduced (order of operations) with the current redux model.

In the old model, DFredux, the weapon damage factor (DF) was reduced using a redux factor (RF) with the formula: .ceil((DF * (1-RF)) = DFr, where DFr is the reduced weapon DF. (DFr * endroll success margin) determined actual raw damage taken. The critical rank with corresponding damage was based on the reduced raw damage but there was no critical damage reduction. It has remained an open question whether or not there is just 1 or 2 redux factors used in the current model (answer is 1) and the order of operations for reducing damage.

The new model, total damage reduction, consists of two parts. Part I functions similarly to DFredux: the weapon damage factor is reduced by the redux factor and the resulting reduced raw damage determines the maximum critical rank. Part II includes an additional raw damage reduction bonus plus critical damage reduction.

Order of Operations

Part I (DFredux): Calculating the reduced weapon damage factor and reduced raw damage.
Note: This is calculated exactly as it was in the old DFredux model.

I'll designate the reduced weapon damage factor as DFr.

DFr = .ceil((DF * (1-RF))

Example using the following data (1st entry in the data set below)

Level 66 with 382 redux points (no spells)
ER success margin: 223
Weapon damage factor: .200 (broadsword vs plate)
Crit damage: 10
Redux factor: .353
DFr (reduced weapon DF): .130 [.ceil((.200 * (1-.353))]
Reduced raw damage: 29 [round(223 * .130)]
Total damage taken: 26

Note: The actual redux factor is greater than .352 and less than .355. Both .353 and .354 fit the data. I was able to back out the RF range from the data set.

The reduced raw damage determines the maximum critical rank. In the above example with 29 raw damage and the defender wearing plate armor, the maximum critical rank is 2 [trunc(29/11)].

Part II (Total Damage Reduction): Reduction of both reduced raw and unreduced crit damage.

Formula:

Total damage taken = (Reduced raw damage + Crit damage) - trunc((reduced raw + crit) * RF))

Example:

Reduced raw damage: 29
Crit damage: 10
Redux factor: .353

Calculated damage taken = (29 + 10) - trunc((29 + 10) * .353))
Calculated damage taken = 26
Actual damage taken (from 1st data entry) = 26

The following is from a data set for a level 66 character with 382 redux points posted by Latrinsorm. The above example uses the first entry (ER 323 with 10 crit damage)

RP	RF	+/-	CrDa	ER	D	TD
382	0.527	0.005	10	323	26	55
382	0.560	0.005	5	323	22	50
382	0.535	0.006	5	292	20	43
382	0.531	0.006	10	293	23	49
382	0.553	0.007	5	265	17	38
382	0.553	0.006	3	275	17	38
382	0.569	0.005	3	338	22	51
382	0.533	0.006	7	292	21	45
382	0.558	0.006	3	302	19	43
382	0.531	0.006	10	295	23	49
382	0.537	0.006	5	279	19	41
382	0.559	0.007	1	265	15	34
382	0.542	0.005	3	327	22	48
382	0.553	0.005	1	330	21	47
382	0.545	0.005	3	306	20	44

RP = redux points
RF = redux factor  (these values represent the percentage of  damage taken/calculated damage.
CrDa = critical damage
ER = endroll
D = actual damage taken
TD = Total unreduced damage

Summary

1. The current redux model retains DFredux but also adds additional raw and crit damage reduction.
2. The actual redux factor is significantly lower (approximately 2/3rds) than the commonly calculated redux factor used to estimate reduced damage.
3. Using this order of operation has given exact results for all the data I have.
4. The redux factor for the level 66 character with 382 redux points is >.352 to <.355 and the broadsword's DF (.200) is reduced to .130.

Mark

[gilchristr]

So at a high level the redo of redux added a second layer, leaving the first layer unchanged? Kind of like some other redone systems like critical randomization.

[Danical]

Well done. Really great work.

This second reduction in damage explains why I was getting rank 1 criticals and resulting in rank 1 wounds when the raw damage would normally be less than sufficient to normally cause a rank 1 critical.

[Danical]

I wonder if this model is how Resistance is calculated.

A swirling sonic barrier partially deflects the onslaught of the shocking attack.
Rimalon hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!
  AS: +535 vs DS: +288 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +90 = +377
   ... and hits for 45 points of damage!
   Heavy spark to back.  Bet that hurts.
   You are stunned for 1 rounds!

[Geijon Khyree]

How about a capped warrior with 25 spells?

[rolfard]

Is one spell a flat effect or somehow exponential?

[Geijon Khyree]

We need some help understanding how spells impact redux Mark. Please!

[Roblar]

I'm curious and can be available for test beatings.

At 83 spell ranks now, but haven't noticed anything really major for a redux drop (total anecdotal observation).

[Geijon Khyree]

I feel like I lost a tier of damage reduction going from no spells to 25 without the benefit of 430. I can check logs, but where bandits would hit me for 11 they now seem to do 13-15.

[Roblar]

Oh I'm sure there is an impact, but much less than I feared, especially when compared to the benefits reaped.

Your example itself is something anyone should be able to live with.