Sorry guys

[Gelston]

In all seriousness, the game is undead because it does not draw new players in. It's both sad and hilarious that modern MMO's which spend hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars on development, art, staff, upkeep costs, can survive and thrive on a free to play model while a 30 year old mud with no art, minimal and mostly unpaid staffing, and insignificant upkeep costs somehow just can't manage it? It's foolishness. There's literally no other way to describe it. And while the game isn't going to shut down tomarrow, it's certainly never going to grow again under current management and so will never increase in profitability. Maybe that's fine, the game has had a good long life.

It is surviving as far as I can tell. Those F2P games also usually have around 100kish players and those players buy crap in the cash shops. Usually they don't start as an F2P, but even if they do, you generally have to buy the game to play it... See GW2 for instance. Text based games don't have the appeal that they used to have 10-20 years ago. Even the free to play MUDs aren't near what they used to be.

[Light]

It is surviving as far as I can tell. Those F2P games also usually have around 100kish players and those players buy crap in the cash shops. Usually they don't start as an F2P, but even if they do, you generally have to buy the game to play it... See GW2 for instance. Text based games don't have the appeal that they used to have 10-20 years ago. Even the free to play MUDs aren't near what they used to be.

If by surviving you mean less players every year, then yes. Those F2P games have large playerbases because they are.. get ready for it.. F2P. Young adults generally don't have 30$+ a month to spend, and if they do, spending it on a 30 year old text game isn't all that appealing. However once someone is addicted to a game they will generally spend what cash they have on it if the cash shop is designed in an intelligent way.

I'm not sure muds have any more or less appeal then they did 15 years ago, the target audience is very much the same as it was then, the market is simply saturated with graphical games that teenagers and young adults can play for free if they chose.

Most of the F2P market is not a one time fee, GW2 and D3 are exceptions, not the norm. There is a fair share of games that start as subscription based then go f2p when the memberbase begins to decline. They do this to extend the lifespan of the game and maximize the income they can yield until it becomes unprofitable to continue keeping it online. I wonder if there is another company we'd all be familiar with that might be able to learn something from that? Also, all of those games have large investment costs into development of said games, muds do not.

I'm not going to derail Jeril's thread any further, it sucks he got banned in what is essentially a lottery as almost everyone who plays does script (non-afk) and it's simply a matter of being checked at the wrong time. Your doorbell rings, you gotta take a shit, you fall asleep in your computer chair, whatever. Banning paying customers who are not creating mischief or causing harm in a game with a playerbase this small is dumb, and I have yet to hear any argument made that would convince me otherwise. Do I think people should be able to afk-script MA 8 accounts 24/7? No. There is a level of common sense the staff should be using when doing these checks which quite plainly, they are not. Maybe the level of professionalism goes down when you pay your employee's the rough equivilent of a mcdonalds lunch every month. /shrug

[Gelston]

If by surviving you mean less players every year, then yes. Those F2P games have large playerbases because they are.. get ready for it.. F2P. Young adults generally don't have 30$+ a month to spend, and if they do, spending it on a 30 year old text game isn't all that appealing. However once someone is addicted to a game they will generally spend what cash they have on it if the cash shop is designed in an intelligent way.

I'm not sure muds have any more or less appeal then they did 15 years ago, the target audience is very much the same as it was then, the market is simply saturated with graphical games that teenagers and young adults can play for free if they chose.

Most of the F2P market is not a one time fee, GW2 and D3 are exceptions, not the norm. There is a fair share of games that start as subscription based then go f2p when the memberbase begins to decline. They do this to extend the lifespan of the game and maximize the income they can yield until it becomes unprofitable to continue keeping it online. I wonder if there is another company we'd all be familiar with that might be able to learn something from that? Also, all of those games have large investment costs into development of said games, muds do not.

I'm not going to derail Jeril's thread any further, it sucks he got banned in what is essentially a lottery as almost everyone who plays does script (non-afk) and it's simply a matter of being checked at the wrong time. Your doorbell rings, you gotta take a shit, you fall asleep in your computer chair, whatever. Banning paying customers who are not creating mischief or causing harm in a game with a playerbase this small is dumb, and I have yet to hear any argument made that would convince me otherwise. Do I think people should be able to afk-script MA 8 accounts 24/7? No. There is a level of common sense the staff should be using when doing these checks which quite plainly, they are not. Maybe the level of professionalism goes down when you pay your employee's the rough equivilent of a mcdonalds lunch every month. /shrug

Surviving mean that it is making money still. The target audience has shrank heavily compared to what it was back then. WoW has the largest player base and wait for it... It isn't F2P. Also, the game doesn't cost $30 a month, however, that still isn't a lot of money, even when I was a 16 year old working my first job.

Most of the F2P market started as B2P and had a sub, and then went F2P. Some are still B2P, most offer an upgrade package, and whats more, almost all of them offer a subscription service. As far as I can tell, ALL MUDs have been on a steady downward spiral since around 2003 or 2004.... Which coincides with the huge rise in graphical MMO popularity.

As you said, MUDs don't have huge investment costs, so it doesn't need a huge playerbase, and as other threads concerning playerbase have shown, the playerbase has stayed roughly the same for the last couple years.

[Light]

The target audience has shrank heavily compared to what it was back then.

I don't think you understand what target audience means.

WoW has the largest player base and wait for it... It isn't F2P.

Really? For true?

Also, the game doesn't cost $30 a month, however, that still isn't a lot of money, even when I was a 16 year old working my first job.

So then it makes sense to you that every modern mmo charges 15$ or less if it's subscription based, increasingly more often free to play, but a 30 year old mud charges double that? To a millionaire 500$ a month on entertainment is pocket change, to a single mother on low income it's a fortune. Both are potential customers, the trick is to allow people with large budgets to pay a lot if they chose, and those with small budgets to play and contribute to the community. It makes for a healthier more diverse community.

Most of the F2P market started as B2P and had a sub, and then went F2P. Some are still B2P, most offer an upgrade package, and whats more, almost all of them offer a subscription service.

My point exactly, f2p with a subscription option. I feel like we're going in circles here mate.

As far as I can tell, ALL MUDs have been on a steady downward spiral since around 2003 or 2004.... Which coincides with the huge rise in graphical MMO popularity.
As you said, MUDs don't have huge investment costs, so it doesn't need a huge playerbase, and as other threads concerning playerbase have shown, the playerbase has stayed roughly the same for the last couple years.

So you somehow took what I said about almost no development cost to mean theres no need for a large playerbase? What kind of fucked up logic are you operating under?

Anonymous Red reps so far:

"You're a fucking moron, Im shocked you can tie your own shoes"

Ah PC, you never disappoint. ^_^

[StrayRogue]

I don't give a shit about the F2P vs. P2P models - personally the game has other issues that don't make it "worth it" for me. The money isn't the issue.

But to get to the point, I'd like to give credit to the OP whom I thought was going to end his post bemoaning the GM's for slamming him with the banhammer. He's taken his beating like a man, and the fact he's apologised is pretty stand-up. So well in.

[Anebriated]

Back on the scripting topic, I do agree that complete afk scripting should not be allowed. However I feel that they need to be a little more lenient on the people who respond immediately after being pulled. Between the screen scroll and the fact that shit does happen IRL they need to cut us some slack once in awhile instead of trying to be a hardass all the time. My only recent script check was when we were having a hospital bed delivered and I had to quickly go grab the dog so they could leave the door open to move it in. In the ~1 minute it took me to do that I was checked and the GM told me that I BARELY responded in time and then lectured me on AFK scripting. Also of note the checks no longer show up in monster bold. I can understand trying to change up the message to keep scripters on their toes but wouldnt making it a bright color help those of us actually at our keyboards?

[SpiffyJr]

Surviving mean that it is making money still. The target audience has shrank heavily compared to what it was back then. WoW has the largest player base and wait for it... It isn't F2P. Also, the game doesn't cost $30 a month, however, that still isn't a lot of money, even when I was a 16 year old working my first job.

Most of the F2P market started as B2P and had a sub, and then went F2P. Some are still B2P, most offer an upgrade package, and whats more, almost all of them offer a subscription service. As far as I can tell, ALL MUDs have been on a steady downward spiral since around 2003 or 2004.... Which coincides with the huge rise in graphical MMO popularity.

As you said, MUDs don't have huge investment costs, so it doesn't need a huge playerbase, and as other threads concerning playerbase have shown, the playerbase has stayed roughly the same for the last couple years.

Name MMO's since the release of WoW that's a successful subscription based model and not gone f2p. I bet you can't name name 3.

[Whirlin]

Back on the scripting topic, I do agree that complete afk scripting should not be allowed. However I feel that they need to be a little more lenient on the people who respond immediately after being pulled. Between the screen scroll and the fact that shit does happen IRL they need to cut us some slack once in awhile instead of trying to be a hardass all the time. My only recent script check was when we were having a hospital bed delivered and I had to quickly go grab the dog so they could leave the door open to move it in. In the ~1 minute it took me to do that I was checked and the GM told me that I BARELY responded in time and then lectured me on AFK scripting. Also of note the checks no longer show up in monster bold. I can understand trying to change up the message to keep scripters on their toes but wouldnt making it a bright color help those of us actually at our keyboards?

I agree. Hell, I think the window should be opened from 1 minute to about 3 minutes for response times, with monsterbold or other key things like says or whispers on the notifications. There's so much ambient messaging nowadays that simply didn't exist before with weather, time, new hunting ground ambiance. A lot of stuff we've basically been conditioned to mentally filter while hunting. If people are TRULY afk, they'll miss all 3 minutes of notifications. There's a difference between multi-tasking and being fully AFK.

A good test for a GM would be to spawn as a dead character in the hunting ground, and see if someone stops/interacts. That would be an awesome realistic AFK check.

[Aiska]

A good test for a GM would be to spawn as a dead character in the hunting ground, and see if someone stops/interacts. That would be an awesome realistic AFK check.

I laughed out loud at this. It'd work all of twice before the shitheel network plugged in some kind of rescue subroutine, but at least some good would come of it.

[Buckwheet]

I laughed out loud at this. It'd work all of twice before the shitheel network plugged in some kind of rescue subroutine, but at least some good would come of it.

A rescue subroutine doesn't work if the GM has super powers to prevent things like a raise or not being able to be dragged etc.