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Thread: Lich community

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    lich.rb kicks ass for script ideas; it reads like a 'how-to' and is better than any faq.

  2. #22

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    Lich is open source, can you show me where I can find the source for the lnet server?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheEschaton View Post
    Are our lives now so fragmented and depersonalized that things we should already be doing, like saving those in danger and feeding the homeless, have suddenly become the actions of heroes?

    -TheE-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathravin View Post
    lich.rb kicks ass for script ideas; it reads like a 'how-to' and is better than any faq.
    Word.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by phantasm View Post
    This seems to be the guiding force behind lich.
    Its mission statement is "do it yourself and fuck off".

    I guess what I'm asking is, are there any lich developers that are interested in supporting core scripts, having a bunch of people use their code, and listening to complaints/suggestions/comments from those users? Or is lich basically just a bunch of guys like Brute?
    I've been involved with a lot of community-driven projects. It's really less about meeting in the middle than it is about people who are joining approaching with a "when in Rome" attitude. That doesn't mean "do what they do" so much as "think how they think." People in the community have become successful at something based on specific philosophies & methods of thinking. Adopt those as your own. Below are some pointers that explain what they are. It's seldom a good idea to tell other people to be more organized/dedicated/systematic with the way they provide their free services (in this case, it's a horrible idea since people providing this work only stand to lose time and patience by releasing their content).

    Despite just stating that, people need to respect the fact that the repo is not a scratch pad. There should be good headers above all. Comments are important but I never expect them. Headers, though, are mandatory. The repo is a mess with trivial near-useless scripts that do things like spam 10 different commands in a loop. If you upload it, it should be generally useful and clearly described. Even things like `whereami` are a bit silly (as useful as it is to tell people to use). The better option would be: `;alias add global whereami=;e echo Room.current.id`

    Ways not to be "that guy" when seeking help with a community-driven project:

    (1) Don't ask to ask, just ask. You don't say "could I ask someone a couple questions about bigshot, please?" (polite as it is). You say "I'm having a problem with bigshot. It does X with Y setting and I want it to do Z."

    (2) Do some cursory research. Never ask from an uninformed position. Search the PC, KP, play.net, and (if applicable) try editing scripts to see if you can find out what is wrong. Most of the time, the implication is that you're lazy, rather than lost, if you don't do this.

    (3) Realize that you can learn. Humans are born with a rather limited skill set: eating and shitting. You have learned to do other things and you can learn to do more. People say things like "I can't cook" or "I can't write scripts." The response is "yet." and it will continue to be "yet" until you try to.

    (4) Embrace the "roll your own" philosophy. You don't need to be able to re-write lich but you have to be willing to do things on your own. This relates to 2 & 3. If you ask a question and someone tells you to read `;lnet help` don't get upset. That's a good answer. Read it. You'll find out the answer and probably learn something else which is useful along the way. If you need a particular script and one doesn't exist

    (5) To learn how, start rolling your own. This is actually more of a tip. You won't be proficient in a programming language by reading about it. The proper way (I've never heard of another that seems to work for everyone) is to just find a problem you want a program/script to solve. Write one to solve it. Look at existing code for hints of how to do things. Then write more. Initially they'll be janky but they'll get better.

    To give a personal example:

    I used the old Shaelun lich for a while a long time ago. I didn't really use it beyond spell tracking. I went on a couple year long dry-spell in GS (playing once per month). In April of this year, I downloaded the recent version of lich. Before that, I'd never written anything in ruby. I didn't know anything about the built in lich functions, either.

    Since then, I've been able to write some pretty great scripts: a locksmithing script (the sort that Gib would never give away... or me either I guess), a totally autonomous hunting script (bigshot is probably better but I've logged hundreds of hours without a hiccup). I reached that proficiency months ago, too.

    That doesn't even count the dozens of odd-ball supplementary scripts I've written. Even if you don't have the "thrill of the kill" mindset that some of us have (I don't want to use bigshot, I want to write my own), there's so much to gain from writing your own snippets.

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaCapn View Post



    (3) Realize that you can learn. Humans are born with a rather limited skill set: eating and shitting. You have learned to do other things and you can learn to do more. People say things like "I can't cook" or "I can't write scripts." The response is "yet." and it will continue to be "yet" until you try to.
    So going to use that in my day to day.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by phantasm View Post
    Lets be frank, I don't believe for a minute that scripts are uploaded to the repo for peace, love and kindess. They are uploaded for recognition. Lich isn't organized at all like an open source project where everyone works together for common goals. Its currently more like a middle school pissing contest.
    You're right, people aren't working together for common goals. We're just doing what we want. I've uploaded scripts to the repo with 100% altruism before. Some people probably are in a pissing match or out for recognition. The question is: if people are in competition to write the best version of a script they can to give it away for free, who cares why they do it? Maybe it breeds an environment that some content-consumers don't like. Well, the pure consumers are joining an environment, not creating one. The mindset of the hosts is relatively fixed due to the incentive structure. You can change the incentive structure or you can adapt your behavior to work within it.

    You can offer to pay someone to do something. That changes the incentive structure. If someone want to pay me to read KP to answer their questions for them, I might oblige.

    The existing incentive structure is simple: People who don't adapt to the mindset required to operate, just repeatedly beg for help. Some people just give them the answer to get them to go away. Others might degrade them continuously until they go away. The second course of action produces much more desirable results if you want the person to go away.

    My previous post discusses adapting to the environment. It's really the best solution.

  7. #27

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    There exists in the world college students, hobbyists, strange freaks that like looking at code 24 hours a day, high school kids, people with the free time. These people, or you, if your a lich scripter, get some benefit or enjoyment out of writing lich scripts.
    I will never be that person.
    Gemstone exists soley for me to let my mind be free from day to day stress. I am 100% sure about this.
    I will never contribute anything to lich.
    I do appreciate that you exist and have the free time, or get some benefit/enjoyment out of writing lich scripts.
    Your assumption that everyone should be like you, learning ruby and contributing scripts is quite off the mark.
    There is a niche in the world that you fill and not everyone can fill it.
    Its the way society works.
    I have no problem donating money to something that benefits me like this.
    Currently, the state of lich is such that I can't just donate money and not have problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheEschaton View Post
    Are our lives now so fragmented and depersonalized that things we should already be doing, like saving those in danger and feeding the homeless, have suddenly become the actions of heroes?

    -TheE-

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phantasm View Post
    Currently, the state of lich is such that I can't just donate money and not have problems.
    Sounds like your using non-core things in Lich. If you have problems with core scripts in Lich, let us know but I would put money on you having next to zero issues with core scripts. Tillmen's response rate to any issue with core functionality is excellent, and your comment is an absolute slap in his face and the awesome work/time he puts into keeping the core functional and useful.

    The attitude your exhibiting is the exact reason I stopped sharing anything I create openly. I don't have time to bug fix every script I could release for every single different person/class combo that could use it. I just don't have that type of time between, work/family/playtime. I'm sorry, but thats just how it is and I'm certain I'm not the only one.

    Again, I just want to re-iterate how lucky the Lich community is to have someone like Tillmen who does have the time and the will to keep the core functionality of Lich what it is today. Some of the stuff he has done over the past year has really advanced what Lich is capable of doing.

    As always Tillmen, hats off my friend no matter what all the haters say. Can say I'm up his ass or whatever, which I'm sure the rep comments on this post will say, but saying it about him is worth it.
    Get Lich (lichproject.org) - Donate to Tillmen - Vote for Gemstone (topmudsites.com)

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phantasm View Post
    There exists in the world college students, hobbyists, strange freaks that like looking at code 24 hours a day, high school kids, people with the free time. These people, or you, if your a lich scripter, get some benefit or enjoyment out of writing lich scripts.
    I will never be that person.
    Gemstone exists soley for me to let my mind be free from day to day stress. I am 100% sure about this.
    I will never contribute anything to lich.
    I do appreciate that you exist and have the free time, or get some benefit/enjoyment out of writing lich scripts.
    Your assumption that everyone should be like you, learning ruby and contributing scripts is quite off the mark.
    There is a niche in the world that you fill and not everyone can fill it.
    Its the way society works.
    I have no problem donating money to something that benefits me like this.
    Currently, the state of lich is such that I can't just donate money and not have problems.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tordane View Post
    Sounds like your using non-core things in Lich. If you have problems with core scripts in Lich, let us know but I would put money on you having next to zero issues with core scripts. Tillmen's response rate to any issue with core functionality is excellent, and your comment is an absolute slap in his face and the awesome work/time he puts into keeping the core functional and useful.

    The attitude your exhibiting is the exact reason I stopped sharing anything I create openly. I don't have time to bug fix every script I could release for every single different person/class combo that could use it. I just don't have that type of time between, work/family/playtime. I'm sorry, but thats just how it is and I'm certain I'm not the only one.

    Again, I just want to re-iterate how lucky the Lich community is to have someone like Tillmen who does have the time and the will to keep the core functionality of Lich what it is today. Some of the stuff he has done over the past year has really advanced what Lich is capable of doing.

    As always Tillmen, hats off my friend no matter what all the haters say. Can say I'm up his ass or whatever, which I'm sure the rep comments on this post will say, but saying it about him is worth it.
    Dude, he's just trolling.

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