Pures, the historic problem child of GS.

[ruineye]

UNCONVERTING PREVIOUSLY CONVERTED TPs DOESN'T. FUCKING. MATTER.

At the risk of buzzkilling a perfectly good thread...

Whether or not one considers the # of previously converted TPs to approach infinity (as Viril appears to), does very much affect the appropriate sigma-algebra and thus the validity of each poster's math.

[g++]

At the risk of buzzkilling a perfectly good thread...

Whether or not one considers the # of previously converted TPs to approach infinity (as Viril appears to), does very much affect the appropriate sigma-algebra and thus the validity of each poster's math.

You can prove there is a limit by simply going to a spread sheet giving yourself a million of each and trying to spend them all. Proof by counter example that it does not approach infinity.

You could also prove CRB wrong in this case by brute force by just rolling a warrior logging yourself running to the nodes to get to level 1 and then attempting to train a spell. It would only be about a 5 page log.

[Celephais]

You can prove there is a limit by simply going to a spread sheet giving yourself a million of each and trying to spend them all. Proof by counter example that it does not approach infinity.

You could also prove CRB wrong in this case by brute force by just rolling a warrior logging yourself running to the nodes to get to level 1 and then attempting to train a spell. It would only be about a 5 page log.

http://www.deadlylight.com/character...00&PTP=1000000

For those curious, it takes:

22119 PTP
32926 MTP

To train in everything as a Wizard.

[crb]

You can prove there is a limit by simply going to a spread sheet giving yourself a million of each and trying to spend them all. Proof by counter example that it does not approach infinity.

You could also prove CRB wrong in this case by brute force by just rolling a warrior logging yourself running to the nodes to get to level 1 and then attempting to train a spell. It would only be about a 5 page log.

I didn't say always afford it. I even mentioned a low level exception.

I said it happens. Harris said it was impossible.

For a warrior who has converted a lot of training points, which is most warriors, each ptp is worth 2 mtp which gives them around 180mtp, max, when leveling, which is enough to learn a spell.

Compare this to you lot, whom in your obvious dislike for me I think have decided to argue against this will known reality, just because I'm the one on the other side. I find it mildly funny.

See, in earlier levels, warriors overpay for physical skills by cashing in mtps at a rate of two to one. In later levels, the system automatically tries to rebalance by reversing that trend and giving a warrior 2 mtps for every 1 ptp they earn.

Thus, they earn triple mtps, just like high level pures earn triple ptps.

That is reality. That is what happens. Your imaginary warrior who wants to learn spells at level 0 or whatever won't have this happen. My real warrior who starts getting interested at higher levels will.

I've already said we're both right, except that my example actually exists. But yours in theory is right too. Go you! Gold star! You've got a theoretical situation in which you're not wrong!

You could admit to this simple truth, or just keep insulting my intelligence, logic, or math. But let me clue you in on something, I've got pretty good self esteem, that insult route is probably not going to work to change my mind... but then I guess if you were just doing it to feel better about yourself, then maybe it is working. And you may continue, I'll help you out.

[Lumi]

At the risk of buzzkilling a perfectly good thread...

Whether or not one considers the # of previously converted TPs to approach infinity (as Viril appears to), does very much affect the appropriate sigma-algebra and thus the validity of each poster's math.

The validity of his math doesn't really matter when it only applies to his own scenario, which doesn't actually pertain to the original statement.

Since I'm just not tired of saying it yet, I'll throw it out there one more time: with perfect stats, a character is granted 60/60 P/M. A warrior needs 0/120 to train a spell. A warrior must spend more than an entire level's worth of TPs to gain a spell.

[crb]

The validity of his math doesn't really matter when it only applies to his own scenario, which doesn't actually pertain to the original statement.

Since I'm just not tired of saying it yet, I'll throw it out there one more time: with perfect stats, a character is granted 60/60 P/M. A warrior needs 0/120 to train a spell. A warrior must spend more than an entire level's worth of TPs to gain a spell.

And high level warriors are granted 2 mtps for every ptp earned, thus giving them, at max, 0/180. Which is enough.

These aren't gains from being a higher level, which pushes the actual number up over 0/200. These are the actual ptps earned that actual level being actually converted into actual double the amount of mtps by the actual computer that runs the actual game before you have a chance to do anything with them.

Because, in reality, prior to being interested in spells, most warriors will have trained heavily in physical skills, paying 2 mtps for every 1 ptp. Once they start getting interested in mental skills, the system forces them to rebalance like this.

For any profession that has converted mtps into ptps, the system automatically turn each ptp they earn into 2 mtps until they have no banked conversions. The opposite is also true. This is how the game exists. This is a straight value conversion. With those 0/180 points the warrior can convert 120 back into physical points thus having 60/60 through training in physical skills. This is changing a dollar into 4 quarters for a payphone, you still have a dollar in value. So the warrior gets 0/180 and can choose to convert those mental points to physical to get back down to 60/60, by spending it on physical things. OR they can not have to convert it and spend it on mental things, like a spell rank.


Arguing over a simple game mechanic you're all aware of just because you think you've "got me" is retarded, but funny. So keep making yourself look spiteful.

Reality calls, won't you join us?

[Lumi]

And high level warriors are granted 2 mtps for every ptp earned, thus giving them, at max, 0/180. Which is enough.

These aren't gains from being a higher level, which pushes the actual number up over 0/200. These are the actual ptps earned that actual level being actually converted into actual double the amount of mtps by the actual computer that runs the actual game before you have a chance to do anything with them.

Because, in reality, prior to being interested in spells, most warriors will have trained heavily in physical skills, paying 2 mtps for every 1 ptp. Once they start getting interested in mental skills, the system forces them to rebalance like this.

For any profession that has converted mtps into ptps, the system automatically turn each ptp they earn into 2 mtps until they have no banked conversions. The opposite is also true. This is how the game exists. This is a straight value conversion. With those 0/180 points the warrior can convert 120 back into physical points thus having 60/60 through training in physical skills. This is changing a dollar into 4 quarters for a payphone, you still have a dollar in value. So the warrior gets 0/180 and can choose to convert those mental points to physical to get back down to 60/60, by spending it on physical things. OR they can not have to convert it and spend it on mental things, like a spell rank.


Arguing over a simple game mechanic you're all aware of just because you think you've "got me" is retarded, but funny. So keep making yourself look spiteful.

Reality calls, won't you join us?

Last time I kill off some brain cells responding to you.

At no point, ever, is a PTP worth 2 MTPs. Ever. A PTP is worth .5 MTPs, and vice versa, since that's the rate conversion happens at. Look at it this way: if conversion is required to train rank X of a particular skill at the time it is trained, the character in question is getting only half the potential efficiency out of those converted points. He's spending more than the skill should cost (18/0 instead of 6/6, for example) to get that rank. When he gains more TPs, it corrects that previous inefficiency.

You're not getting more than 60/60 TPs per level, ever. If you've been converting, however, you get to massage out some of the training inefficiency of previous skill training, because now that you've gained more experience, and more TPs of each type, your total TP pool allows you to convert one less point (of whichever type you were converting) to achieve your existing training.

If I had 18/0 and I trained a rank of Dodging (the converted cost for a pure bard, which normally costs 6/6), and then I earned 1/1 from experience gain, I end up with 3/0, but this is because if I'd had that extra 1/1 in the first place, I could have spent it on that 6/6, bringing the remaining cost down to 5/5.

18/0 - 5/5 == 3/0 (after conversion). I'm not getting anything extra, I'm just improving the efficiency of previous training decisions. Or, in essence, the only way I'm getting "more" points now is as a result of having "fewer" points in previous levels.

You "lose" points by converting, and then "get them back" by earning more TPs and unconverting...but either way, you still don't get more than 60/60 experience for one level's worth of experience.

Here's one more for you: take a look at a newly capped character, one with perfect stats (pretend for a moment that that's possible). He cannot, under any circumstances, have more than 6060/6060 TPs. Any capped character (that started with all 100s) is going to have 6060 + (post-cap experience/2500) TPs of each type. If you look at their total TP expenditure, after accounting for conversion, that's exactly what it's going to add up to.

Conversion only gets you "extra" points if you take into account that it "took away" points earlier on.

You're a classless shmuck, and I'm done trying to explain what everyone, including you, already knows. Enjoy your eraging.

As usual I have put my foot in my mouth while trying to belittle another poster and have found myself on the wrong end of a pointless argument. In order to get out of this without losing the small amount of self worth I retain from my gemstoneIII knowledge I will now become a raging prick.

qft.

[crb]

You make me feel stupid and I resent you for that, so I get angry and I respond with rage, I'm sorry for going way off the deepend on this very minor issue. It probably wouldn't have happened with someone else, but I dislike you so much that it makes it all the worse that you keep making me feel stupid.

Thanks, very big of you Lumi.

I've pointed out many times you guys were talking theory, and I was talking reality, and that we were both right. I know I get your hackles up, but continuing to insist the way you do that a warrior could never pick up a spell without saving up more than one training is silly. Like I said, it happens every day.

So long as you're in a converted status any point awards gained for new experience of the point type of the opposite of your converted type will be automatically redeemed by the game into double the amount of points of the converted type while simultaneously lowering your converted total.

I'm saying, when a warrior levels up, the points to train a spell are available. You're saying... what? They aren't available? Thats easily proven false. You're saying they are available, but they don't count for the purposes of this discussion because they are the result of unconverted points previously earned and banked as the opposite point type?

All of which I admitted to pages ago...

My position has always been what happens in reality when an average warrior types "goals" after gaining a level (having not previously indulged in intra-level training).

I'm not wrong, you know I'm not wrong. You must, you just want to "put me in my place" so badly you're continuing with your specious argument.