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Thread: The DS Formulas (evade, shield, parry, runestaff, ranged)

  1. #1

    Default The DS Formulas (evade, shield, parry, runestaff, ranged)

    DISCLAIMER: A lot of people have been involved in figuring out the DS formulas, so please do not think that this is solely my work.

    DS DETERMINATION NOTES: There are a TON of factors involved in determining your DS. These formulas assume a perfect situation (or one where the variables can be identified and factored in). If you're bleeding from several locations, half health, loaded down with boxes, and bound by the creature.. your DS is not going to be anywhere even remotely close to what the formulas predict. However, your goal as a hunter should not be to predict your DS in those situations but to maintain the perfect situation instead.

    STANCE/2 NOTES: In the parry DS formula is a bit about STANCE/2 (of which I'm not going to include (see the notes in evade DS for that reason)). The value for STANCE is 0 in offensive, 20 in advance, 40 in forward, 60 in neutral, 80 in guarded, and 100 in defensive. The result is added directly into DS with no modifications and is always present, except when attacked by a ranged weapon (at which point it becomes 0). However, there currently is a bug that if you're wielding a weapon you're NOT trained for, you still get that DS. For example, a shield using caster keeping the right hand open but with no brawling training gets this bonus against a ranged attack. If that caster had 1 rank of brawling, they would not get this bonus.


    On my 'to do' list is to make a spreadsheet for all this data. That one is going to be a while though (mostly because it's hard for me to make an aesthetically pleasing version).


    As of 6/30/09, all the formulas listed are functional to the point of being useable. The ranged DS formula and runestaff DS formula require a little more work to hammer out some kinks and the parry DS formula needs a little work with polearm DS, so there'll be more edits as time goes on (but there shouldn't be any major changes from what's already listed).

    [EDIT (2/7/10): Just found out I left off a part of the SHIELD DS final calculation (dividing by 1.5)]

    [EDIT (2/28/10): Added a minor note about TWC DS to the parry DS formula.]

    [EDIT (5/31/11): I had stated, in the SHIELD DS formula, that you needed 1 rank to fully activate it. This is wrong and has been fixed in the post.]
    Last edited by Asrial; 05-31-2011 at 09:22 PM.

  2. #2

    Default The Evade DS Formula

    ORDER OF OPERATIONS: base -> armor modifications -> shield modifications (2 different ones) -> stance modifications -> final result (for melee) -> ranged bonus


    BASE: dodge ranks + agility bonus + (TRUNC(intuition bonus / 4))

    ARMOR MODIFICATIONS: ((TRUNC(maneuver penalty / 2)) + 100) / 100

    SHIELD MODIFICATIONS: ((X + 100) / 100)

    X = -22 if small, -30 if medium, -38 if large, -46 if tower

    FIRST SET: TRUNC(TRUNC(base * armor modifications) * shield modifications) + Y

    Y = -5 if large, -10 if tower, 0 if small/medium/rangedattack

    STANCE MODIFICATIONS: (75 + (Z / 4)) / 100

    Z = 0 if offensive, 20 if advance, 40 if forward, 60 if neutral, 80 if guarded, 100 if defensive


    melee DS = TRUNC(first set * stance modifications)

    ranged DS = TRUNC((melee DS * 1.5) + .5)


    MANEUVER PENALTY NOTES: The maneuver penalty, as it pertains to evade DS, is based on the '.5 training rounds up' thought (IE: 130 armor bonus / 20 = 6.5 which rounds up to 7 RT removal). The maneuver penalty becomes worse if you're under trained, but it is not a set loss of DS so someone 1 rank under penalty removal (5.5 in my example) will have a smaller hit than someone 2+ ranks under.

    RANGED DS NOTES: This formula has been extensively tested against melee attacks, but not as much with ranged attacks. However, given the influence ranged has on the formula, I can't imagine there being a difference in the results of moderate testing vs. extensive testing.

    ARMOR ENCHANT NOTES: This is probably the best location to add armor enchant (1:1 ratio) to DS determination. This goes for any items that add DS and aren't a weapon or a shield (since you can nullify parry/shield DS, but you can't nullify evade DS even with 0 ranks in dodge). Be aware that you can't nullify shield enchant (or the natural +20 DS it has).

    STANCE/2 NOTES: I have long felt that the STANCE/2 part of the parry DS formula is better represented here, as the only time it's nullified is when you're attacked by a ranged weapon and you're wielding a weapon that YOU'RE TRAINED FOR (see note in above post for explanation).
    Last edited by Asrial; 06-16-2009 at 07:59 PM.

  3. #3

    Default The Shield DS Formula

    ORDER OF OPERATIONS: base -> shield modifications -> ranged modifications (if applicable) -> stance modifications -> final result


    BASE: shield ranks + (TRUNC(strength bonus / 4)) + (TRUNC(dexterity bonus / 4))


    X = -15 if small, 0 if medium, 15 if large, 30 if tower


    X = 20 if small, 50 if medium, 80 if large, 110 if tower

    FIRST SET: (TRUNC(base * shield modifications)) + Y

    Y (only exists during a ranged attack) = -8 if small, 0 if medium, 8 if large, 16 if tower

    STANCE MODIFICATIONS: (50 + (Z / 2)) / 100

    Z = 0 if offensive, 20 if advance, 40 if forward, 60 if neutral, 80 if guarded, 100 if defensive


    DS = TRUNC(TRUNC(first set * stance modifications) / 1.5)


    SHIELD ENCHANT NOTES: Shield enchant is factored in on a 1:1 ratio. Shields also have a natural +20 DS. These two values are not affected by stance or any other part of the formula.

    SHIELD USE NOTES: The formula is fully active with 0 ranks (tested on 5/31/11 with medium/tower shields in offensive/defensive stances and against melee/ranged attacks).
    Last edited by Asrial; 05-31-2011 at 09:20 PM.

  4. #4

    Default The Parry DS Formula

    ORDER OF OPERATIONS: base -> weapon bonus -> stance modifications -> final result -> two-weapon combat modifications


    BASE: weapon ranks + (TRUNC(strength bonus / 4)) + (TRUNC(dexterity bonus / 4)) + V

    V = primary hand weapon enchant bonus ((bonus / 1) if two-handed; TRUNC(bonus / 2) if one-handed)

    FIRST SET: TRUNC(base * W)

    W = weapon bonus (1.5 if two-handed; 1 if one-handed)

    STANCE MODIFICATIONS: (20 + (X / 2)) / 100

    X = 0 if offensive, 20 if advance, 40 if forward, 60 if neutral, 80 if guarded, 100 if defensive


    REGULAR DS = TRUNC(first set * stance modifications)

    TWC DS = REGULAR DS + (TRUNC(TRUNC(base2 / 2) * stance modifications)) + 5 + Y

    Y = 10 if using a sai or main gauche; 0 for everything else

    base2 = two-weapon combat ranks + (TRUNC(strength bonus / 4)) + (TRUNC(dexterity bonus / 4)) + Z

    Z = TRUNC(off hand weapon enchant bonus / 2)


    RANGED DS NOTES: I have not extensively tested this formula against ranged attacks. Basic testing shows that parry DS is completely negated when defending against a ranged attack.

    STANCE/2 NOTES: The 'official' formula adds STANCE/2 DS. See my notes on this in the very first post.

    POLEARM NOTES: Polearm DS has not been investigated thoroughly and currently is not accurately predicted by this formula.

    WEAPON USE NOTES: You need at least 1 rank in the skill of the wielded weapon to activate the formula.

    TWC USE NOTES: Always put away the LEFT HAND weapon to maximize your single weapon DS. However, even with 0 ranks of brawling, an empty right hand will not prevent you from getting full TWC DS from the left hand weapon. In some situations (low level training and using a sai or main gauche) this will actually give you more DS than the right hand weapon by several points.
    Last edited by Asrial; 02-28-2010 at 11:20 PM.

  5. #5

    Default The Runestaff DS Formula

    MRPL = magic ranks per level


    Less than 4 MRPL: parry ranks = TRUNC(10 + (magic ranks * level) * .15)

    Between 4 and 11 MRPL: parry ranks = TRUNC(10 + level + (((magic ranks - 8) * level) * .10))

    More than 11 MRPL: parry ranks = TRUNC(10 + level + (level * .3) + (((magic ranks - 11) * level) * .05))

    (the parry ranks are then put into the parry DS formula in place of weapon ranks; a runestaff counts as a two-handed weapon)

    (it's been stated by another mechanics nut, but not personally tested by me yet, that runestaff ranged DS is (melee DS / 2) (the stance/2 is also cut in half))


    - I suspect the 4-11 section is stretched out a bit. 11.3 MRPL was accurate with the between 4 and 11 formula, and off by 1 DS with the more than 11 formula. 11.7 was off by 1 DS with the between 4 and 11 formula but was accurate with the more than 11 formula.

    - I really only have one valid sub-4 data point, though I can get more.

    - This is accurate to within a few DS points (and so far I've only encountered one data point that was wrong and I'm not entirely confident of that data point anyways) which is why I'm releasing beta information. It's strong enough to hold up and even being off by a couple of DS is still enough to give you the conceptual view of your training.

    - If you have THW training, it does not add to your DS (nor is it substituted in place of the runestaff) while wielding a runestaff.
    Last edited by Asrial; 06-30-2009 at 09:36 PM.

  6. #6


    CCCCoooooombo breaker!

  7. #7

    Default The Ranged DS Formula

    Since there's no new information, I'm going to start releasing what I have on the ranged DS formula. This is NOT complete in the sense of a how ranged defense is handled with ranged DS and the hit to DS by using a crossbow (or having the bow in the wrong hand). However, it's strong enough to be used to figure out basic melee DS.


    ranged DS = TRUNC((ranged SKILL + perception RANKS) * stance modifier)

    ADVANCE BOW = .21
    FORWARD BOW = .27
    NEUTRAL BOW = .33
    GUARDED BOW = .39


    [EDIT: I think I got the "2x+ perception ranks" part figured out. 2x+ is cut in half when added to the formula. Someone with 279 ranks in perception at level 100 would have 240 perception ranks (202 + TRUNC(77/2)). I don't know yet, though it can be assumed the answer is true, if it cuts it right at 202 ranks or if it's level*2.]


    NOTES: Notice the SKILL/RANKS emphasis. This formula is 100% accurate for ranged skill, but every so often is +1 DS off when adding perception ranks (no more than +1). Further, the formula slows down when you're at 2x+ perception (rogues and enhancives; see above edit). You also need 1 rank of ranged to activate the formula (including receiving the DS of the bow/crossbow enchant).

    BOW ENCHANT DS: Bow/crossbow enchant is added on a 1:1 ratio irregardless of stance (except against a ranged attack).

    CROSSBOW PENALTY: Crossbows have a DS penalty of ~20% even while standing. This loss applies only to ranged/perception DS in the form of a smaller stance modifier.

    RANGED ATTACK DEFENSE: This is still a work in progress.

    BRAWLING / ARROW / BOLT DS: Brawling DS does not combine with ranged DS. Arrow/bolt enchants do not affect ranged DS.
    Last edited by Asrial; 06-30-2009 at 09:25 PM.

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