Shieldless Builds

[danielsh]

My training is a little bit odd because when I left I had been getting bored and wanted to experiment with the ranger archetype that's skilled with both bow and blade.

Cloakhe (at level 47), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Combat Maneuvers..............| 147 47
Edged Weapons...................| 194 94
Ranged Weapons.................| 194 94
Ambush..............................| 147 47
Physical Fitness...................| 147 47
Dodging..............................| 147 47
Harness Power.....................| 146 46
Survival..............................| 99 23
Stalking and Hiding..............| 194 94
Perception...........................| 164 64
Climbing..............................| 99 23
Swimming...........................| 54 11

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 8

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 40

Training Points: 83 Phy 45 Mnt
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

Cloakhe, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Sweep sweep 5

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 2

After mucking around with this for a while, I've realized that bow and blade isn't nearly as synergistic in GS as it is in your typical fantasy novel. I inevitably end up hunting with one OR the other, but rarely switch halfway through the hunt. Another negative side effect is this training path eats up enough points that I'm unable to build up interesting secondary and tertiary skills.

Now it turns out I've still got a fixskills left over from the GS4 conversion, and I'm contemplating a modified ohe build where I ditch the 2x ranged to pick up 30+ ranks of MOC. I've never thought shields were appropriate from an RP-perspective for mobile, stealthy rangers but I do subscribe to the Salvatore school of thought (no flame please ) that rangers ought to be pretty damn good with their weapons.

From a mechanical perspective, mstrike seems like it would synergize a bit better with an ambush build, if for no other reason than the fact that I don't need to switch weapons in the middle of combat. I would also downgrade my perception to 1x, boost survival to 1x and pick up a handful of MIU and mana control:spirit ranks.

Thoughts? Perhaps some older (say 70-90 train) TWC or THW rangers can comment on ohe hunting without a shield? I'd like to have the option to hunt just about anything, and I'm concerned that heavy bolters might prove problematic.

- Cloakhe

[waywardgs]

I won't go so far as to say shields are worthless, but I ditched shield for twc at around 35 trains and never missed it for a moment. I ambush and ewave and also picked up 30 ranks of MOC for the focused mstrike. So anything too tall for me to poke in the eye I can get down on the ground and either behead it or mstrike it- with twc, that's 4 successive strikes on a prone critter. My theory is take em out hard and fast, and you won't have to worry about your defense. Mstrike works well for crowd control too- an open mstrike at 30 ranks hits 3 critters, twice each if you're wielding two weapons. From there I aim my attacks with ambushing to clean up.

And besides, get a couple flaring weapons, and a full mstrike can start looking pretty nifty. Screen roll makes me feel like i'm doing something right.

[danielsh]

What train are you?

I tried out TWC for a bit, and found the second weapon to be a bit redundant. There were a few rare times when the second blade was able to complete a death crit that the first blade started. However, most of the time I would ambush for the head and the first blade would cause a severe crit, which meant the second blade would just tack on some additional damage.

I could definitely see the value of the second weapon if you're swinging out in the open though.

- Dan

[Silvanostar]

the problem with twc for rangers is that you won't be able to do more than 1x in twc unless you sacrifice other skills. the offhand penalty for critters at or above your level is pretty high

[danielsh]

After considering various options, I've caved in and taken a pretty cookie cutter sword 'n board build. My primary motivation is that I don't have that much spare time these days to wait for partners or spells before hunting. Cloakhe needs to be as self-sufficient as possible, which to me means a relatively high DS and general versatility. To that end, I dropped some points into SMC and MIU in hopes of making and using rods.

Cloakhe (at level 47), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 148 48
Shield Use..........................| 148 48
Combat Maneuvers..............| 148 48
Edged Weapons...................| 196 96
Ambush.............................| 148 48
Multi Opponent Combat........| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 148 48
Dodging.............................| 148 48
Magic Item Use...................| 58 12
Harness Power....................| 148 48
Spirit Mana Control..............| 58 12
Survival.............................| 148 48
Stalking and Hiding.............| 196 96
Perception..........................| 148 48
Climbing............................| 102 24
Swimming..........................| 102 24
First Aid.............................| 58 12

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.........................| 8

Spell Lists
Ranger................................| 40

I'd eventually like to hit 30 ranks of MOC for that focused mstrike bodacity, but that'll have to wait. Same goes for 1x FA.

On a side note, I did some quick testing to see what kind of imbue capabilities 12 ranks of SMC bought me. Only 1 out of 10 sticks turned into a rod. And at 12 ranks of MIU, I can raise rods embedded with Thurfel's without fear of a stun, but for Strength I'm stuck waving.

- Cloakhe

[graysun]

I enjoy sword/board. Am saving archery or purecasting for the day I get tired of edged.

Am using 511 and 414 imbeds with 20 ranks of MIU, and made 20 wands the other day (with zero rods) at 75th with 15 ranks of MCS.

Are you using a small shield?

[danielsh]

Its a buckler, but its a pre-GS4 shield that I never converted, so it should still mechanically function as a standard shield.

Has anyone done the math to determine what's the optimal size shield to carry if you're 1x dodge and 1x shield use?

For 511 and 414, do you raise or wave those wands?

- Cloakhe

[danielsh]

I went ahead and crunched the numbers based on the formulas for EBP provided on play.net.

With 48 ranks a piece in dodge and shield use, there's a pretty dramatic difference in offensive and defensive DS when you switch between a small and a medium shield. In my calculations, I assumed that I would have mobiles and blurs running (which would weigh things against shield use). These DS numbers account for evade, block and parry DS. They don't factor in armor enchants but they DO assume a +18 shield (I use an eahnor bucler).

Medium Shield
Offensive DS:+133, +147 vs bolt
Defensive DS: +355, +314 vs bolt

Small Shield
Offensive DS: +140, +159 vs bolt
Defensive DS: +290, +217 vs bolt

As you can see, a small shield actually performs better when you're stuck in RT and in offensive stance. The question then is how high you need your defensive DS to be, since there's a pretty dramatic difference. My suspicion is unless you're going up against invasion critters frequently, the small shield will be more than sufficient in defensive for day to day hunting.

I'll need to do some in game testing to confirm these calculations, but I'm thinking long and hard about converting my buckler to a small shield.

To remain germane to this thread, I checked how both types of shields compared to using NO shield.

No Shield
Offensive DS: +126, +156 vs bolt
Defensive DS: +265, +208 vs bolt

There's unsurprisingly a noticeable difference here that will increase dramatically if you factor in a shield with a higher enchant.

- Cloakhe

[thefarmer]

Its a buckler, but its a pre-GS4 shield that I never converted, so it should still mechanically function as a standard shield.

Has anyone done the math to determine what's the optimal size shield to carry if you're 1x dodge and 1x shield use?

For 511 and 414, do you raise or wave those wands?

- Cloakhe

shield use = dodge --> buckler
shield use < dodge --> Buckler
shield use > dodge --> tower

Is the basic estimate I use.

Raise