Hate Cheney, Love Biden

[Mabus]

I am no VP Cheney fan. His neo-con ways have bothered me from the beginning. Whenever I hear GOP members say "The military would not be in such a state if Bill Clinton would not have cut it!" I point them to the fact that the cuts that the GOP Congress approved under Clinton were the cuts proposed to Congress by then Secretary of Defense Richard Cheney under the first Bush.

I remember the vitriol used in 2004, talking down Cheney by his opponents. I have even seen some of the same tactics since then, one on this board even attempting to lift up Obama's Wright by pointing out the deferments that Cheney received during the Vietnam War:

Who is the real patriot? The young man who interrupted his studies to serve his country for six years or our three political leaders who beat the system? Are the patriots the people who actually sacrifice something or those who merely talk about their love of the country?
OBAMA '08

Others used it to compare John Kerry's military service (which I admire, never denigrated, and defended against the Swift Boater's) to Cheney's:

We also have Vice President Dick Cheney, who deferred his way out of Vietnam because, as he says, he "had more important things to do."

Why is there no outrage by all the posters that thought Cheney so much less a patriot then Kerry, but hold their tongues on Biden?

Deferments, asthma kept Biden out of Vietnam (AP).

That's right, Biden had the same number of deferments as Cheney. But this is "not an issue" to DNC supporters now, since it is on the other side of the political aisle.

[Audriana]

When Cheney became eligible for the draft, he was a supporter of the Vietnam War but did not serve in the military. Instead, he applied for and received five draft deferments. In 1989, The Washington Post writer, George C. Wilson, interviewed Cheney as the next Secretary of Defense; when asked about his deferments, Cheney reportedly said, "I had other priorities in the '60s than military service."[15] Cheney testified during his confirmation hearings in 1989 that he received deferments to finish a college career that lasted six years rather than four, owing to sub par academic performance and the need to work to pay for his education. Initially, he was not called up because the Selective Service System was only taking older men. When he became eligible for the draft, he applied for four deferments in sequence. He applied for his fifth exemption on January 19, 1966, when his wife was about 10 weeks pregnant. He was granted 3-A status, the "hardship" exemption, which excluded men with children or dependent parents. In January 1967, Cheney turned 26 and was no longer eligible for the draft.[16]

Biden received five student draft deferments during this period, with the first coming in late 1963 and the last in early 1968, at the peak of the Vietnam War.[7] In April 1968, he was reclassified by the Selective Service System as not available for service due to having had asthma as a teenager.[7]

The writing aside...

Cheney served 6 years for a 4 year degree, then his wife got preggers.
Biden took 4 years to get a 4 year degree, and was deemed ineligable with asthma.

Plenty of people have kids and are off in the military. Cheney didn't want to go, Biden was told he couldn't go. Seems to be a subtle difference there.

My father couldn't be taken because he had flat feet... well that, 5 concussions, a fractured skull, cereberal hemorrage by the time he was 18... They didn't like him...

[Mabus]

Cheney didn't want to go, Biden was told he couldn't go. Seems to be a subtle difference there.

Oh, Biden wanted to go?

The only difference I see is how some people rationalize their previous beliefs based on party affiliation.

[Audriana]

So you can't read? Interesting.

[Mabus]

So you can't read? Interesting.

Yes, I can not only read, but I can do more then use bold and one-liners to make a purely partisan point!

Just for me to understand:
Cheney's deferments were "unpatriotic" to Democrats in 2000 and 2004, but Biden's same number of deferments were just dandy!

Thank you for showing me the mind of a typical Obama supporter.

Can you source where Biden really wanted to go to Vietnam and Cheney really did not? I would gladly read and respond to such factual information.

[Audriana]

I never said Biden wanted to go. I said Biden was told he couldn't go. Granted, it was clearly insinuated, by the sentence structure.

Suffice it to say, after college Cheney had to tell them he 'couldn't' go. Where Biden was told he 'couldn't' go. If Cheney had told them he wanted to go, they would have had him in a uniform in moments, if Biden had told them he wanted to go, they would have told him to fuck off.

[Mabus]

I never said Biden wanted to go. I said Biden was told he couldn't go. Granted, it was clearly insinuated, by the sentence structure.

Suffice it to say, after college Cheney had to tell them he 'couldn't' go. Where Biden was told he 'couldn't' go. If Cheney had told them he wanted to go, they would have had him in a uniform in moments, if Biden had told them he wanted to go, they would have told him to fuck off.

Isn't it something that Biden never mentions asthma once in his book "Promises to Keep"? In that book he does bring up his high school football career, and that he was a lifeguard.

It must have been hard on him doing those strenuous activities while recovering from childhood asthma. Bringing his struggle with his childhood asthma, and ability to overcome it enough to play on sports teams (and potentially saving lives as a lifeguard), would have added a compelling story that could inspire other sufferers.

The first time Biden brought up "asthma" being a reason he could not serve in Vietnam was during his 1987 run for the presidential nomination.

[Audriana]

I agree, the Selective Service System did have a rather strict health code they followed. Especially for college graduates and people from influential and well-off households.

[Mabus]

I agree, the Selective Service System did have a rather strict health code they followed. Especially for college graduates and people from influential and well-off households.

You would think so, no?

Having looked through the records from this highly bureaucratic organization the AP found absolutely no mention of this asthma, or classification, that Biden remembers. You would think these facts on government documents would be in some Selective Service folder somewhere, but the archives have produced no official ones.

[Audriana]

I see a lot of highly convenient things that you are taking to your side of the argument, but I see it as the ineptitude of a highly bureaucratic system.

Did they also search the other millions of records to see how many other documents from how many other people were missing?

If they found a .001% of missing documents between draft notices and draft deferments + drafted soldiers, your case may have some merit. Or did the AP simply stop at not finding the Biden documents?