Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 67

Thread: Yet another bizarre "tragedy"

  1. #1

    Default Yet another bizarre "tragedy"

    3 things:

    1) Were the airport police (or bonafide cops) following correct procedure when she was disorderly at the boarding booth?
    She was understandably upset/frustrated when the passengerway was closed and the plane ready to leave when she showed up late. Witnesses say that the police hurriedly took her down by force w/o communication. Police says otherwise, and state a video would be released.

    My take is that if she refused to standdown (or at least back way from the counter when instructed to), considering the terrorist implications of trying to force way onto a plane... the police acted decisively appropriately. If she had reactedly calmly, I doubt it would had developed into a such a serious arrest.

    .

    2) Should she had been allowed to fly alone?
    You have someone possibly emotionally unstable (which incidentally usually would lead to drinking problems - that she is seeking treatment for). Should not the hubby or others be with her to ensure that she arrives where she is destined for?

    .

    3) Circumstances of the holding cell
    It would *seem* that she strangled herself with the chain that attacked her handcuffs to the bench, in the 5-10 minutes that she was being left alone (or rather, ignored by officers tired of her tantrums).
    I would suggest that the officers are at fault here, as she was evidentally highly unstable. Besides, aren't "immates" supposed to not be able to harm themselves? (ie, not being chained in such a fashion)

    .

    http://news.aol.com/story/_a/account...00010000000001

    .

    Accounts Differ in Mother's Airport Death
    By JOHN SULLIVAN,The New York Times
    Posted: 2007-10-04 11:40:01
    Filed Under: Nation News

    (Oct. 4) - Carol A. Gotbaum was supposed to fly directly to Tucson last Friday to enter an alcohol rehabilitation program, but she delayed her departure to see her children off to school, her family said. The delay and the resulting nondirect flight were part of a series of circumstances that led to Ms. Gotbaum’s confrontation with the police at the Phoenix airport, and to her subsequent death in police custody.

    The events surrounding her arrest are now under investigation, and the Phoenix Police Department said yesterday that it had a videotape of the arrest itself. But according to her family members and their lawyer, if the day had gone as planned, Ms. Gotbaum would not have been there at all.

    Ms. Gotbaum, 45, the stepdaughter-in-law of New York City’s public advocate, Betsy Gotbaum, was originally scheduled to fly directly to Tucson for an alcohol rehabilitation program. But Ms. Gotbaum, who lived on the Upper West Side, delayed her flight because she wanted to say goodbye to her three children, two of whom were attending a new grammar school.

    The change meant a connection through the busy Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport. Her husband, Noah, was apparently comfortable letting her fly alone because she was to meet a couple she knew at a stopover in Phoenix, the family said.

    But Ms. Gotbaum arrived too late to make the connecting flight to Tucson, the family’s lawyer, Michael C. Manning, said.

    According to a spokesman for Mesa Airlines, which operates the flight Ms. Gotbaum was to take, she arrived at the gate after boarding was completed. The passageway to the airliner was closed, and the plane was about to take off, said Paul Skellon, a spokesman for Mesa.

    According to the Phoenix police, Ms. Gotbaum began arguing with the ticket agents, insisting that she be allowed to board the plane. The police were called, and officers saw Ms. Gotbaum “yelling and screaming” and running through the concourse, said Sgt. Andy Hill of the Phoenix police.

    Sergeant Hill said that the officers tried unsuccessfully to calm Ms. Gotbaum, finally handcuffing her and arresting her on charges of disorderly conduct. But that account is now disputed by Mr. Manning.

    Mr. Manning said yesterday that his office had interviewed three witnesses to the confrontation.

    “The police approached her, according to witnesses, made no effort to speak to her, calm her or assess the situation,” he said. “Two of them immediately took her to the ground.”

    Mr. Manning said witnesses recounted that Ms. Gotbaum was not threatening anyone, and instead was yelling, “I am not a terrorist, I am not a criminal, I am just a sick mother, I need to get help.”

    Sergeant Hill said tersely yesterday that the account of Mr. Manning’s witnesses was “not true.”

    “The officers did try to calm her down,” he said, adding that the arrest followed police procedure. “When we release the video, everyone will see.” He did not say when the video would be released.

    Ms. Gotbaum was placed in a police holding cell at the airport; her hands were cuffed behind her, with a metal chain about two feet long attaching the handcuffs to a bench, Sergeant Hill said. She continued yelling in the cell, he said, and was left alone for 5 to 10 minutes. After she stopped shouting, the officers looked in the cell, he said, and found Ms. Gotbaum unconscious with the chain stretched across her neck. Attempts by the police and medical workers to revive her were unsuccessful.

    Mr. Manning also criticized the officers’ actions in the holding cell, saying they should have obtained a medical evaluation for Ms. Gotbaum and should not have left her alone.

    “You don’t leave an emotionally disturbed citizen shackled with that kind of potential weapon or device they could use to hurt themselves,” he said.

    The cause of death is under investigation, and an autopsy was performed on Tuesday evening by the Maricopa County medical examiner. David Boyer, a spokesman for the medical examiner, said the results of the autopsy would not be released until laboratory results were completed in a few weeks.

    A pathologist hired by the Gotbaum family, Dr. Cyril H. Wecht, was allowed to perform a separate examination, Mr. Manning said. He said yesterday that Dr. Wecht would wait for lab results before announcing his conclusion. But he added that a private investigator who also attended the exam said Ms. Gotbaum exhibited signs of “very serious trauma,” including bruises and a mark on her neck from the metal chain.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Ohai, NZ
    Posts
    7,534
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Yeah yeah, let's blame everyone else but the alcoholic screaming and acting like an idiot in an airport terminal.

  3. #3

    Default

    3) Circumstances of the holding cell
    It would *seem* that she strangled herself with the chain that attacked her handcuffs to the bench, in the 5-10 minutes that she was being left alone (or rather, ignored by officers tired of her tantrums).
    I would suggest that the officers are at fault here, as she was evidentally highly unstable. Besides, aren't "immates" supposed to not be able to harm themselves? (ie, not being chained in such a fashion)
    She wasn't an inmate. She was merely being detained in a holding room, which is different than being 'ignored by officers tired of her tantrums'. I don't see how it was the officer's responsibility to make sure she didn't hurt herself if they properly secured her restraints. If it turns out that she did it to herself, due to emotional instability, then I also don't fault the officers. How were they supposed to know that someone acting disorderly was unstable enough to harm herself that badly?
    Last edited by thefarmer; 10-04-2007 at 12:47 PM.

  4. Default

    Blame the husband who didn't give enough of a shit about his wife to have gone with her.
    http://www.usdebtclock.org/
    Click the link above to see how much you owe the government.

    "Well I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black."
    -Superracist, Joe Biden

    “If you don’t believe in free speech for people who you disagree with, and even hate for what they stand for, then you don’t believe in free speech.”
    -My favorite liberal

  5. #5

    Default

    I bet she was just trying to escape and got stuck, not trying to kill herself.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thefarmer View Post
    I bet she was just trying to escape and got stuck, not trying to kill herself.
    That plan worked well.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlanteax View Post
    3 things:

    1) Were the airport police (or bonafide cops) following correct procedure when she was disorderly at the boarding booth?
    She was understandably upset/frustrated when the passengerway was closed and the plane ready to leave when she showed up late. Witnesses say that the police hurriedly took her down by force w/o communication. Police says otherwise, and state a video would be released.
    So it's the witnesses' word against the cops. We'll just have to wait and see what the video uncovers. I agree that she was probably acting a little inappropriately than just a little upset. However I have a feeling that cops these days in airport terminals have VERY little tolerance for any kind of outburst and will contain them if at all possible. Hell they'll look at you sideways if you're not smiling for heaven's sakes.
    2) Should she had been allowed to fly alone?
    You have someone possibly emotionally unstable (which incidentally usually would lead to drinking problems - that she is seeking treatment for). Should not the hubby or others be with her to ensure that she arrives where she is destined for?
    We don't really know, nor can assume, what kind of emotional problems this woman had. Hopefully she wasn't intoxicated at the time for her to wig out for missing the plane. However as someone who totally freaked out in an airport once for missing a plane a month or so after 9/11, being afraid and alone AND sick totally sucks and she has some of my sympathy.
    3) Circumstances of the holding cell
    It would *seem* that she strangled herself with the chain that attacked her handcuffs to the bench, in the 5-10 minutes that she was being left alone (or rather, ignored by officers tired of her tantrums).
    I would suggest that the officers are at fault here, as she was evidentally highly unstable. Besides, aren't "immates" supposed to not be able to harm themselves? (ie, not being chained in such a fashion)
    She wasn't an inmate, she was in a holding cell for ten minutes. There is no way that the cops would know what kind of condition this woman was in to believe that she would kill herself in that short amount of time.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    18,210

    Default

    Oct. 4) - Carol A. Gotbaum was supposed to fly directly to Tucson last Friday to enter an alcohol rehabilitation program, but she delayed her departure to see her children off to school, her family said.
    I have no sympathy for any traveller who doesn't follow travel guidelines that the rest of us follow. She shouldn't of been allowed on the plane, and she shouldn't of thought that somehow, air travel is her right.

    -TheE-
    A.M.D.G.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gan View Post
    D TEAM UNITE! YOUR HEAD CHEERLEADER IS CALLING, HIS ATTEMPTED RESCUE OF THEe IS FAILING.

  9. Default

    I realize you are trying to be funny, but she didn't get arrested for delaying her departure or changing her flight plans.
    http://www.usdebtclock.org/
    Click the link above to see how much you owe the government.

    "Well I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black."
    -Superracist, Joe Biden

    “If you don’t believe in free speech for people who you disagree with, and even hate for what they stand for, then you don’t believe in free speech.”
    -My favorite liberal

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    9,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorddyn View Post
    That plan worked well.
    Worked perfectly.
    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalTears View Post
    I ask people to join me in prayer that chillmonster STFU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Latrinsorm View Post
    Congratulations, you've reached Ilvane level bias...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gan View Post
    Clove, the crusher of dreams.
    π

Similar Threads

  1. Nixon: Fred Thompson is "Dumb as hell" but "Friendly"
    By chillmonster in forum Politics
    Replies: 108
    Last Post: 02-23-2021, 08:12 AM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-27-2017, 06:54 PM
  3. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-11-2011, 03:29 PM
  4. Why I love Russia! "Homo-Scanners" "Nigaz"
    By Solkern in forum Social Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-27-2011, 04:37 PM
  5. Replies: 20
    Last Post: 01-18-2011, 12:51 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •