Lich SF vs Wizard

[Deathravin]

Ok, am trying to figure out which one to use... I generally don't like Stormfront because you can't have just one pane up and have it not scroll you down to the bottom every time you look in your backpack... It's petty, but it's not my only problem with it. However, what do I care if I'm scripting, right?


Lich can do certain things in SF that it can't do in Wiz
Lich can do certain things in Wiz that it can't do in SF

I was curious what the differences were with Lich in the different FEs. It's all listed on his site, but it's not in a pro/con list of each FE.

[Celephais]

I don't know anything about Lich specifically, but the stormfront XML contains some extremely useful information that cannot be gleaned from the WIZ GSL streams. The GSL provides nothing that SFXML doesn't have.

The easiest to explain example of why SF is better is because of the exists tags that come with every link sent. When a monster attacks you in the wizard, all the wizard knows is "a giant rat attacked you" but SF essentially knows "third giant rat attacked you". What with the SF room window telling you that "first giant rat is stunned" you can have your script target "other giant rat", because the first is stunned and second is in RT.

You cannot do that with the wizard. The SF xml also lets you write exploritory code, because you can use the links to identify which items to investigate (and you can even use the link menu responses to give you a method to investigate... although that doesn't always include everything)

[Deathravin]

Way off topic there for a second... Does Lich know about the rat (stunned, prone), 2nd rat (stunned, prone), 3rd rat (alive and angry)?

[Celephais]

you type:
Target rat
Sweep rat
Target other rat
fire

... you can do that in both Wizard and SF... the advantage comes from info given to the user. Essentially all objects in GS are given an "exists" key.

Wizard:

Catacombs
You also see a giant rat that is laying down, a giant rat that is stunned, 
a giant rat that is laying down.
 
a giant rat stands up.

SF:

Catacombs
You also see a giant rat(1) that is laying down, a giant rat(2) that is stunned, 
a giant rat(3) that is laying down.
 
a giant rat(3) stands up.
>Sweep third rat

SF will also update you IMMEDIATLY when (2) unstuns, no need to look to be sure.

[Celephais]

Let me explain a few other advantages these exists keys give you...

You also see an ithizir scout(1), and an ithizir scout(2).
 
an ithizir scout(1) disarms you!
 
an ithizir scout(2) picks up your bloodstained death sword!
 
an ithizir scout(1) goes east.
 
an ithizir scout(2) goes west.
>west
You also see an ithizir scout(3), an ithizir scout(4), an ithizir scout(2).
 
{about 7 scouts go in and out}
>kill (2)
 
You recover your gruesome blade!

That situation would be impossible with the wiz data stream... you wouldn't know the position (other/third/whatever since some are moving in and out) or even which way to follow.

You also see an ithizir scout, and an ithizir scout.
 
an ithizir scout disarms you!
 
an ithizir scout picks up your bloodstained death sword!
 
an ithizir scout goes east.
 
an ithizir scout goes west.
>west (by chance)
You also see an ithizir scout, an ithizir scout, an ithizir scout.
 
{about 7 scouts go in and out}
>kill third scout
 
BZzzzT wrong, the scout is now "other" scout because of the ones moving in and out, you lose.

Hell the exist keys are consistent across players (just not across uh.. existance.. when equipment "logs out" with you, their keys get reclaimed), you could be dead and get looted, and then tell your friend "track down a scout with exists 839420, he's got my sword".

The SF doesn't even have to send "other/third" it can just send the exists key. I never use my mouse, but I program to SF because I want the extra info.

You could write a program that whenever you weigh a box, stores that exist key with the weight, then when you look in your container it could say: "a modwir trunk (12lb), a modwir trunk (17lb), a modwir trunk (38lb)".

[Deathravin]

You mean with the room window. I think I'd use that more if it would auto-scale to the # of lines of the room... I'm a firm believer in if you're going to do something, do it right. And it just seems like Wizard was done simply, but correctly. Stormfront they did complexly, but it's generally unpolished.

It actually gives you a # after thier name? I've never seen that.

What would be nice in SF is if it said, "You also see a giant rat, a giant rat, a giant rat (target), and a giant rat.
For me if I've already been killing Rat 3 for some time, then it is still a threat, I'm not going to waste too much time disabling the other rats, because 3 attacks / round is much better than 4 / round no matter how you slice it. So I wouldn't change my target from one to another.



With the differences between SF and Wiz in Lich, I mean certain Lick commands, variables, options etc, don't work or don't work well in one or the other.

[Celephais]

The room window can be hidden and you can still have the data availible to Lich (just have Lich squealch it). I actually don't like it auto-scaling, I set my room window up to be plenty big enough for all rooms (I use a small font) and that way it's not jumping around. And what do you mean by "having to scroll to the bottom when you look in your backpack"... the inventory windows are stupid, I hide those, but even with them on they just sit on the side and potentially flicker... I'm not championing for the FE itself, I'm championing for the data stream it uses...

Technically you can use the wizard with a SF XML stream, but no one's written the converter (I've mentioned this to people who ask about these types of questions before, but I have zero desire to write it)

I know lich has access to the data stream, so it might not be able to see exists now but it's certainly capable of it. The dialog streams (windows) are also incredibly useful at event based info, instead of polling (endurance a recent but awesome addition), the active spell window, exp window (instead of just mind state you can tick off amount absorbed without sending "exp")

You asked for the differences in scripting, I told you the potential difference between the two... although I heard Lich does have some trouble with SF, so if you're not planning on writing scripts then yeah... use the Wiz.

[Deathravin]

The 'having to scroll down' isn't what it sounds like... My SF is set up so there's a pane on the right for my docked windows, and the pane on the left is minimized. So I have docked things like XP, Attacking, Directions, encumberance, etc on the right pane...

When I 'Look in my Backpack' or 'gloves' or something, it puts the inventory of what is in the backpack in a window at the bottom of the dock, and auto-scrolls to it, making me unable to see all the important data I need at the top of the pane until I physically rescroll myself back up there. Even if the window is minimized instead of closed, it still pops me down to the bottom to reopen the window if i re-look. It's maddening.

Also, if I drag it out of the dock, and change its apperance, it drops its apperance and position every time it's reopened (it reloads any container that isn't your default stow or sheath container btw - so if your backpack is your stow container, it will remember its settings)

This problem is resolved if I simply open my other dock and put my stuff in there, but I'd rather not squeese my story window any more than it already is. Or I just use 'inv all' instead of l in my..., but it scrolls my screen too much.



Well what I'm asking, I think, is what problems does Lich have with SF. I see all the time "Not compatable with SF" or "No compatable with Wiz" in scripts in the repository.

[fallenSaint]

I personally find any time I use StormFront my characters arent nearly as reactive as they are in Wizard. I can log two characters in one in SF and one in Wiz and run a Travel script for instance and the SF window is always several rooms behind updating and to me that means death when Im actually out hunting. Seems to hold true for some other friends of mine that Multi Acct so not sure how noticeable this is to others or maybe its just because we run Multiple Accts but due to that fact alone I couldnt possibly stomach SF.

[Deathravin]

I completely agree with that thought. It is downright slow when compared to Wizard. I used to do all my hunting in Wizard just because SF wasn't as responsive.