[Official] Spell Disabler Review

[gilchristr]

From towncrier (glad somebody likes discord...):

GM Auchand
[Official] Spell Disabler Review
on 03 Jan 2024 7:47 PM
from the Official GemStoneIV Discord
on #forums/mechanics channel

So, let’s talk Spell Power! The new disabler spells that use SMR take into account your level and your spell circle ranks to produce to produce Spell Power, which is what determines your success at punishing your foes. Spell Aim ranks can add to your Spell Power, but they offer a much smaller contribution than spell circle ranks. Disablers have a bonus to success; AOE disablers have a smaller bonus to success. 410 (Ewave) and 435 (Major Ewave) have also been updated to be more forgiving for those of you on the 10-ranks-is-all-you-get bandwagon.
Direct Discord Link (Right click, copy link, and paste into Discord App if you don’t want to use the Discord web interface.)

[gilchristr]

What impact do these ewave changes have to the affect of training in water lore?

I am 86 trains with 120 ranks of water lore and 90 ranks of MnE. I cast ewave against an 87 trained bard, and I had an SMR margin of 63.

Then, using enhancives, I brought my training of water lore up to 148 ranks. The SMR margin for casting ewave only went to 64.


EDIT - I realize I may be the only person in the game that uses water lore training for ewave! However, these results call into question any spell that utilizes lores for improved results. For instance, that monk spell 1207. I am sure there must be other examples

[Leff]

As far as I have read, it has been confirmed that a water lore benefit still exists in 410/435, per Auchand. I don’t think they will provide the formula to help decipher how much.

[drumpel]

From towncrier (glad somebody likes discord...):

GM Auchand
[Official] Spell Disabler Review
on 03 Jan 2024 7:47 PM
from the Official GemStoneIV Discord
on #forums/mechanics channel

So, let’s talk Spell Power! The new disabler spells that use SMR take into account your level and your spell circle ranks to produce to produce Spell Power, which is what determines your success at punishing your foes. Spell Aim ranks can add to your Spell Power, but they offer a much smaller contribution than spell circle ranks. Disablers have a bonus to success; AOE disablers have a smaller bonus to success. 410 (Ewave) and 435 (Major Ewave) have also been updated to be more forgiving for those of you on the 10-ranks-is-all-you-get bandwagon.
Direct Discord Link (Right click, copy link, and paste into Discord App if you don’t want to use the Discord web interface.)

I'd venture to guess that every 10 ranks of Spell Aiming nets you a +1 to the SMR spell power. So, if you're a capped rogue or warrior that uses 410 and don't want to add anymore spell ranks to bolster your casting power and diminish your redux, train up 1x in SA.

What impact do these ewave changes have to the affect of training in water lore?

I am 86 trains with 120 ranks of water lore and 90 ranks of MnE. I cast ewave against an 87 trained bard, and I had an SMR margin of 63.

Then, using enhancives, I brought my training of water lore up to 148 ranks. The SMR margin for casting ewave only went to 64.


EDIT - I realize I may be the only person in the game that uses water lore training for ewave! However, these results call into question any spell that utilizes lores for improved results. For instance, that monk spell 1207. I am sure there must be other examples

I'm not sure where you've been, but I've always questioned the addition of power from any lore for any spell that utilizes the shitty Summation chart. What a fucking stupid idea it is. Someone that puts 100 ranks of a lore into a 9 summation based lore for a spell gets +8 bonus for all those lore ranks. Whereas someone that comes through and only puts 55 ranks into that same lore for the same spell gets a bonus of +5 (3 extra bonus points for 45 extra ranks? That's fucked up). The attrition of power through training more in a lore is fucking stupid, but that's what the lores do for a lot of spells. It is much better to find a nice range of around 40-60 for each lore you can train in to get the maximum, minimum (does that make sense?) in bonuses for all spells over sinking 100+ ranks into a single lore for a paltry few extra bonus points into a handful of spells over someone that only trained 40-60 ranks.

There are only a couple of occasions where dumping a lot of lore ranks into a single lore is a proper way to train a character:
1) It is strictly beneficial to your training path (i.e. you're training a mutant build)
2) For roleplaying purposes

I have a redux mage that actually fits into both those options. He will only learn so many spell ranks and that is it so he is lightly focused on air lore (30 ranks, give or take, for spell 506 RT reduction for swinging weapons) and then will only train in earth lore for the added bonuses of spell 502 and 509 AS boosting properties (plus whatever other bonuses he gets for a couple other spells he can cast).

How the GMs let some aspects of ranks being largely useless for some spells is mind boggling. Take for example how CM/Perception/Dodge/PF are weighted equally for SMR - that is awesome they all have the same weight. But the bonus is so small that the difference between a pure that is 1x in Perception and PF vs a warmage that is 1x in CM/Perception/PF is just a handful of points, almost non-existent.

Does it really surprise you that this is the same case for having water lore being slightly beneficial to 410/435? All that lore for barely any bonus....sucks doesn't it?

[gilchristr]

Is there a fixskill coming with these changes?

[Mobius1]

How is ewave working against higher level crap?

Against stuff in Atoll I am seeing a 78% chance with ewave, at 80 MnE ranks. That's a pretty substantial nerf to the point I no longer see value in ewave. To think it's even worse at 10 MnE ranks...yikes!

Did they say if they added spell aiming bonus back to the minor circles?

Honestly this kind of did spell casting rogues/warriors pretty dirty. Probably bards too. I feel like it's not good enough where it's at, and I hope they aren't just calling it good as it is (though it sure sounds like it.).

[drumpel]

How is ewave working against higher level crap?

Against stuff in Atoll I am seeing a 78% chance with ewave, at 80 MnE ranks. That's a pretty substantial nerf to the point I no longer see value in ewave. To think it's even worse at 10 MnE ranks...yikes!

Did they say if they added spell aiming bonus back to the minor circles?

Honestly this kind of did spell casting rogues/warriors pretty dirty. Probably bards too. I feel like it's not good enough where it's at, and I hope they aren't just calling it good as it is (though it sure sounds like it.).

I've only got 52 MnE ranks on my capped wizard (70 MjE, 52 MnE, 104 Wiz ranks). In Nelemar he's got around a 75%+ against creatures 5 levels and below. Like level is more around 60%. I didn't really use the spell much there before the change, I tend to cast 504/917/519/904 for the most part. I toss out 410 if it starts to get hectic, but now when I'm up against a roughly 35% chance of failure it kind of makes it a worthless spell for AOE crowd control.

I haven't bothered with casting it against higher than capped level targets. It's bad enough that when I use 917 against creatures higher level (even like level) the crit power of it drops off dramatically. I can't see 410 being useful against higher level targets for me.

[gilchristr]

I was able to do a hunt against 83 train treekin druid (I assume they range from 78-88).

I saw SMR margins average about 82.

Definitely reduced the ability to crowd control vs before the change... several times in the hunt I had to cast a second time to put someone down (which is exactly what one would expect from 82% success rate)

[gilchristr]

Sadly because the GM in charge of this can't document the changes better*, I tested whether spell aiming impacts ewave. Casting ewave against another player I saw the margin steadly increase from 35 to 39 going from 0x -> 1x in spell aiming. Went from 0 to 80ish ranks.



* here is the documentation that is lacking: "Spell Aim ranks CAN add to your Spell Power, but they offer a much smaller contribution than spell circle ranks" (emphasis add...) What is that superfluous "can" doing in there? That's the problem. Evidently, it should read: "Spell Aim ranks add to your Spell Power..."

[Methais]

Sadly because the GM in charge of this can't document the changes better*, I tested whether spell aiming impacts ewave. Casting ewave against another player I saw the margin steadly increase from 35 to 39 going from 0x -> 1x in spell aiming. Went from 0 to 80ish ranks.



* here is the documentation that is lacking: "Spell Aim ranks CAN add to your Spell Power, but they offer a much smaller contribution than spell circle ranks" (emphasis add...) What is that superfluous "can" doing in there? That's the problem. Evidently, it should read: "Spell Aim ranks add to your Spell Power..."

I'm curious why they're doing all this on the live server. They managed to fuck up Rapid Fire the other day and who knows what else. It's fixed now, but still...isn't that the point of the test server?