[Official] Spell Disabler Review

[drumpel]

Fuck - I hate discord. So convoluted and too damn hard to find info easily so I figure I'd post here. I haven't played any casting characters for a few weeks so I was surprised to see 410 being SMR based.

[Official] Spell Disabler Review
Estild
OP
 — 12/31/2023 11:03 AM
Starting today, we'll be releasing a number of updates for spells that disable or debuff targets.

Goals:
Improve spell disablers so that magic has options available to set up and disable creatures.
Improve support builds for grouping by allowing experience for contributions in a standardized way.
Standardize effects and effect durations so combat flows more naturally and players aren’t forced to "take a timeout" for several minutes.
Improve Survival training by adding more utility.

General Updates:
Most spells that disable or debuff a single target will have a 2 second cast roundtime and a mana cost in the 1-5 range. AoE versions will remain at 3 seconds of cast roundtime, but most mana cost will be lowered to the 5-10 range.
Self-cast spells no longer force a TD reduction on the caster. This already applies for newer spells but some older ones still have this mechanic.
A few spells will not require a skill check and have automatic success unless the target is more than 10 levels above the attacker. Ascension creatures targets can go up to level 20 higher, but there's a 10% chance of failure for each level past 10. Subsequent attempts against the same Ascension target increases the odds of success by 20% for each attempt. e.g. the first attempt might have a 60% chance of failure, but the second attempt only has a 40%, the third a 20%, etc.
Some abilities will be updated to use the Standard Maneuver Roll (SMR).
All abilities which induce roundtime will use Stagger (cannot stack, but can refresh).

Durations:
All negative effects will be normalized around a 30 second maximum duration. This mainly pertains to actual spells, but we'll also try to update creature abilities in the future too.
Base and minimum duration of 10 seconds.
Maximum duration of 30 seconds against characters and 60 seconds against creatures.
Warding and SMR spells/abilities will use (10 + ((end result - 100) / 5) * (1 against characters or 2 against creatures)) to determine the duration.  e.g. a 140 end result would be (10 + (140 - 100) / 5)) = 18 seconds against a character and 36 seconds against a creature.
Training in Survival reduces the duration by the following:
Ranks 1-100: 1% per 5 ranks, up to 20%
Ranks 101+: 1% per 20 ranks, up to 10%
Kroderine Soul reduces the duration of magical effects by 25% and stacks (additively) with the Survival bonus.
The following spells updates are live. Additional updates are pending, especially for spells that have single target and AoE versions, as updating their cast roundtime or mana costs involves additional complexity. Those will be announced once released. The entire Development team has worked through design, coding, and QC to make this update possibles.

Stun Relief (108):
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 3.

Unbalance (110)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 5.
Additional updates are pending.

Web (118)
Single target and room versions have moved from warding to the SMR.
Reduced SMR single target castRT to 2.
Reduced SMR single target mana cost to 5.
Reduced AoE version mana cost to 10.  CastRT remains at 3.
CastRT and mana cost of the bolt version remain unchanged.
Uses new standard negative duration formula.

Spirit Dispel (119)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced base mana cost to 5.
When dispelling a spell, the mana cost is 1 mana for every 4 levels of the target spell, and +2 mana when the dispel doesn't match the sphere of the target spell.  Every 75 skill in Mana Control (that matches the dispel type) reduces the mana cost by 1. Minimum of 1 mana and maximum of 5 mana.

Searing Light (135)
Reduced mana cost to 7.
Uses new standard negative duration formula.

Calm (201)
Reduced CastRT to 2.

Interference (212)
Updated to be auto-success.
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 2.

Bind (214)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 5.

Frenzy (216)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 3.

Mass Interference (217)
Updated to be auto-success.
Reduced mana cost to 5.
 
Mass Interference (217)
Updated to be auto-success.
Reduced mana cost to 5.

Spiritual Abolition (230)
For each spell dispelled, the mana cost is 1 mana for every 4 levels of the target spell, and +2 mana when the dispel doesn't match the sphere of the target spell.  Every 75 skill in Mana Control (that matches the dispel type) reduces the mana cost by 1. Minimum of 1 mana and maximum of 5 mana. The overall minimum is 10 mana and the overall maximum is 20 mana.

Blind (311)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 3.
Uses new standard negative duration formula.

Censure (316)
Reduce mana cost to 10.
Uses new standard negative duration formula.

Elemental Saturation (413)
Updated to be auto-success.
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 2.

Elemental Dispel (417)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced base mana cost to 5.
When dispelling a spell, the mana cost is 1 mana for every 4 levels of the target spell, and +2 mana when the dispel doesn't match the sphere of the target spell.  Every 75 skill in Mana Control (that matches the dispel type) reduces the mana cost by 1. Minimum of 1 mana and maximum of 5 mana.

Cold Snap (512)
Reduced mana cost to 10.

Elemental Disjunction (530)
For each spell dispelled, the mana cost is 1 mana for every 4 levels of the target spell, and +2 mana when the dispel doesn't match the sphere of the target spell.  Every 75 skill in Mana Control (that matches the dispel type) reduces the mana cost by 1. Minimum of 1 mana and maximum of 5 mana. The overall minimum is 10 mana and the overall maximum is 20 mana.

Sounds (607)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 5.

Tangleweed (610)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 5.

Moonbeam (611)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 5.

Call Swarm (615)
Reduce castRT to 2.
Reduce mana cost to 5.

Mass Calm (619)
Reduced mana cost to 10.

Mind Jolt (706)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 4.
 
Lullabye (1005)
Reduced castRT to 2.

Stunning Shout (1008)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 5.

Song of Depression (1015)
Reduced initial mana cost to 10.

Song of Rage (1016)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced initial mana cost to 3.

Song of Noise (1017)
Reduced initial mana cost to 10.

Empathy (1108)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 5.

Sympathy (1120)
Reduced mana cost to 10.

Powersink (1203)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 1.

Force Projection (1207)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 5.

Thought Lash (1210)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 5.

Confusion (1211)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 3.

Mental Dispel (1218)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced base mana cost to 5.
When dispelling a spell, the mana cost is 1 mana for every 4 levels of the target spell, and +2 mana when the dispel doesn't match the sphere of the target spell.  Every 75 skill in Mana Control (that matches the dispel type) reduces the mana cost by 1. Minimum of 1 mana and maximum of 5 mana.

Vertigo (1219)
Reduced mana cost to 10.

Aura of the Arkati (1614)
Reduced mana cost to 5.

Mystic Impedance (1708)
Reduced castRT to 2.
Reduced mana cost to 3.

Quake (1714)
Reduced mana cost to 5.

[gilchristr]

Thanks for cross posting!

[Winter]

^^
This, there needs to be an official forum, discord is a bit of a mess in that regard.

[rolfard]

Quake mana cost reduced to 5 mana. On the arcane circle. With a trinket (clay disc) rarer than a ruby amulet. Uh huh.


Ps this did end up on the wiki,

Edit: thanks Left for corrections

https://gswiki.play.net/User:WBURKE1...isabler_Review

[Leff]

https://gswiki.play.net/User:WBURKE1...isabler_Review

[Mobius1]

What's the latest on ewave? It sucks so bad now...

[drumpel]

What's the latest on ewave? It sucks so bad now...

I'm guessing the power of the spell is something like all other SMR spells, such as 917.

Every level you go up you gain a natural +3 (like a CS spell would get).
Then for spell ranks (this is how 917 works) you get +1 to your SMR roll for every spell rank up to your level.
Then overtraining in MnE spells past your level probably gives you +1 for every 2 ranks.
(remember this is how 917 works).

If the creature you're casting it against is higher level than you, your chance to hit them degrades quickly (or in the case of 917, the chance to crit drops dramatically).

Now, you also have to take into consideration the SMR defense properties if you're casting the spell against square or possibly even well trained semi classes, it's going to suck ass. Squares and well trained semis can crank out that PF/CM/Per/Dod skill ranks to help really boost their SMR defense. If the spell used to work well against bandits for you, it's probably not going to unless you over train in MnE spell circle by a lot (maybe 140-150 ranks). Most folks stop for the max 425/430 bonus (at 76 ranks? I forget) and then dump extra spell ranks into MjE and/or Wiz circle.

If you're heavy into Wiz circle spells, maybe 912 might be your new go to spell? Though, I don't think it works on knocking hidden bandits out of hiding. I can't say for sure since I don't hunt bandits. Or you may need to rethink your spell training and focus more heavily on MnE spells if you want 410 to be effective at cap?

[Mobius1]

I literally have more MnE ranks than pures do. The problem is that the SMR2 equation is set up to factor in going higher than anyone trains MnE. 75 MnE ranks, for example, is the equivalent of a square having 75 CM ranks at cap - that's going to suck.

The class circle disablers are also factoring in spell aiming as a bonus (as well as the fact that you tend to have more ranks in them than MnE), but they took that away from the other circles because it was an issue for squares/semis (which is a good thing.). The result is that they are were trying to tweak spells like ewave, because their hit chance got nerfed so badly by the switch to SMR2. It was like 50% success or so for most people, and I did notice it got a little better when I tested today, but I still am missing like 20-25% of my ewaves against like level critters, which is a MASSIVE nerf from when it was SMR1.

I feel like this was way too rushed. Obviously there was a reason why 410/435 were left alone when they were converting so many spells to SMR2 a few years ago - because of these issues. I wish they had done testing before just pushing the update.

[drumpel]

I remember when I was hunting heavily with my reduxmage build. He's 1x in PF/CM/Perception so he's already got an improved SMR defense over a standard pure build, but that 1x CM really only accounted for a couple extra defense SMR points. But when they pushed out PSM3 changes and tanked the SMR defense he went from having roughly a 15% chance to getting hit by SMR based attacks to having a 40% chance to getting hit. The creatures he was hunting, he had to avoid half of them because nearly half the time they'd cripple him with SMR maneuvers.

It sucked and still sucks. No matter how you explained it the GMs didn't give a shit and it's been that way since.

They won't give a shit about 410 being less effective over what it was. I doubt they'll tweak it much more than they already have and call the spell a win regardless if you're now missing targets 25% of the time compared to before the change. Only thing you can really do is keep posting your stats and inability to use the spell so they can see it, but I doubt it'll do much.

[Methais]

^^
This, there needs to be an official forum, discord is a bit of a mess in that regard.

That's probably Simu's favorite part about Discord.