Rogue service proposal

[Methais]

I really think if they want to roll this out, they need to add something in to detect who has it on or not.

But knowing Simu, they won't, but if someone with their NOSTEAL flag enabled sees someone in their pockets, I bet ACCUSE will still work for them.

It's a super easy fix. So far the only somewhat legitimate argument I've heard in favor of a flag is people griefing people way below their level who has no way to retaliate, which is a problem that doesn't really even exist.

But anyway, the brain dead easy fix to that to keep most people happy is to have the NOSTEAL flag only work if there's more than a 10 level gap between the thief and the mark.

Blaming everything on a problem that doesn't even exist is stupid and unfortunately extremely Simu-like.

[Neveragain]

Even if said emotion is coming from the *player* rather than the character?

Emotion should come from the player, it's your job to channel that emotion into your character. Nobody likes to have their shit stolen, whether that be a fictional character or in real life. One of the most epic stories, which can be argued that this entire genre is based on, happened because a ring was stolen.

I think a large part of the problem is that SIMU has allowed RL monetary value to be attached virtual items.

[HebrewToYou]

Ah, so all the other players are just there so you can interact with NPCs and Staff in parallel and the goal is to make sure you that don't get into each other's way? It's a weird way to see the game and I think you are just using the statement from policy that "Gemstone is primarily a CvE game" to deflect away from the fact that problem you actually have is you simply don't like it and just want to get rid of the things you don't like.

Either you can take me at my word or you can't. I play the game in the manner I like to play it. It's not in a bubble, either. I announce and lead daily reim runs open any [near-or-post] capped player; I attend roleplay events; and I purchase items and services from other customers. But all of these are opt-in interactions. Pickpocketing is an interaction forced upon me by another customer that could deprive me of in-game property without my consent, and sometimes even without my knowledge. I would very much like the opportunity to opt-out of this CvC experience.

[Neovik1]

But knowing Simu, they won't, but if someone with their NOSTEAL flag enabled sees someone in their pockets, I bet ACCUSE will still work for them.

It's a super easy fix. So far the only somewhat legitimate argument I've heard in favor of a flag is people griefing people way below their level who has no way to retaliate, which is a problem that doesn't really even exist.

But anyway, the brain dead easy fix to that to keep most people happy is to have the NOSTEAL flag only work if there's more than a 10 level gap between the thief and the mark.

Blaming everything on a problem that doesn't even exist is stupid and unfortunately extremely Simu-like.

But isn't there a problem if it barely gets used? If the system exists for everyone to opt in, people shouldn't really get upset when someone steals from them. They knew what they were getting into and shouldn't think with anger but instead see it as an opportunity.

[HebrewToYou]

Emotion should come from the player, it's your job to channel that emotion into your character. Nobody likes to have their shit stolen, whether that be a fictional character or in real life. One of the most epic stories, which can be argued that this entire genre is based on, happened because a ring was stolen.

I think a large part of the problem is that SIMU has allowed RL monetary value to be attached virtual items.

"Should" is doing a metric ton of work here. And, in fact, I would fundamentally disagree with your position here. While the player should experience the emotion of *enjoyment* while playing this game, the character should be experiencing whatever emotion the interactive fiction calls for within the context of the interaction. When my bard, Dayzed, exhibits disgust at the naivety of someone on the Icemule Trace town council, *I* the player do not experience disgust.

[Fortybox]

But isn't the whole bruhaha here that thieves are all about the roleplay? Is that not the case? Do you actually need to pilfer the property of others to start a roleplay interaction as a thief? I can understand the arguments of "Disneyfication," even though I disagree with them, but I just don't get this particular nuance. If you reach into someone's pockets and pull out nothing, you're still a thief, they're still a mark, and the RP opportunity has been created.

Taking a star diopside isn’t pilfering. Stahp it.

I’ll keep pushing this but flag with incentives is the answer here.

[Fortybox]

Simple: this is a CvE game. I'm not paying to have unwanted interactions with customers. I'm paying to interact with NPCs and Staff.

No it’s not. The game is built on the interaction between characters.

[HebrewToYou]

Taking a star diopside isn’t pilfering. Stahp it.

I’ll keep pushing this but flag with incentives is the answer here.

What if it's that last star diopside I needed for my bounty? What if it's the herb I really need while on my OSA boat? I don't think it's fair to suggest the in-game value of an item reflects the actual value or importance to the character *or* player.

With that said, I am not opposed to incentivizing players to opt-in to CvC pickpocketing. I'm not sure it's necessary, but as long as the reward is balanced and free of exploitation I've no real objection.

[HebrewToYou]

No it’s not. The game is built on the interaction between characters.

To quote policy [again]: GemStone IV has been designed to promote competition as player vs. creature, or player vs. puzzle, and not generally player vs. player.

That's, indeed, what I am paying for. That there is also interaction I can seek out with other customers is a secondary (if not tertiary) benefit of my subscription.

[Viekn]

I think that's weird distinction. With customers, you can ask them to leave you alone and warn against them if there's a problem. And it's the other customers ability to do things that you are asking to limit because you don't like it. Why do you think you should have control over whether things you don't like happen to you?

Simple: this is a CvE game. I'm not paying to have unwanted interactions with customers. I'm paying to interact with NPCs and Staff.

The entire game is built upon CvE, with one or two minor subsystems involving CvC. With CvE, if there's something I don't want to do, I simply don't do it, it's set up to be a passive system. If I don't want to hunt undead, I simply don't hunt undead. However, with pickpocketing, everyone is currently automatically opted into that system, and for those that don't want to participate, they can't simply passively not participate, they have to actively do something, i.e. keeping sacks closed, etc., to not participate in that system. I think putting that responsibility on the person not wanting to participate in that system to actively do something on a regular basis so as not to participate isn't the best way to do that.

The draw of pickpocketing falls into 2 categories: The monetary benefit of what you can steal, and RP. From my understanding, the monetary benefit has never been something really meaningful, which only leaves the RP reasons to do it, and as far as I understand the changes, that whole part of pickpocketing remains intact. And now you're weeding out the people from the system who would have taken it personally IRL and had their enjoyment of the game diminished, which I'm sure is not the goal of any pickpocket.

No it’s not. The game is built on the interaction between characters.

Out of all the coded systems in game, which ones are built upon interaction between characters? Has interactions between characters been what's made this game great for a lot of us? Absolutely. But is it primarily how the coded systems of this game work? Absolutely not.