LoL. Grow a thicker skin, guy. I claim no moral highground. You're just upset you won't be able to inflict your version of "fun" on other paying customers once the flag goes in.Originally Posted by Mobius1
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LoL. Grow a thicker skin, guy. I claim no moral highground. You're just upset you won't be able to inflict your version of "fun" on other paying customers once the flag goes in.
Senior Member
Man, I don't care to dig to find it, but you literally pretty much word for word said as much.
And it's not my version of fun. It's Gemstone's. The game that you have been having fun playing for many years now.
The problem is not me wanting to "inflict" grief on players. The problem is certain players can't separate themselves as the player from their fantasy world characters. The game shouldn't have to build safe spaces for them, because of their inability to do so. To quote you: "Grow a thicker skin, guy."
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Answer this question then: IN CHARACTER, what is the functional difference between robbing someone who has the flag enabled and robbing someone who has nothing to steal?
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I've explained this like 500 times now. I even explained it here in this very thread, as well as just yesterday on Discord when responding to Ragz. Go re-read it.
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Save me a search and give me the tl;dr.
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And people keep complaining that the same arguments keep getting made over and over...
Say you have your bags closed, and you know Midgar is a thief, and I walk into the same room as you? What might you think? "Did I close my bags? Let me make sure!" perhaps?
Or in general, what if you THINK you might have been stolen from? You can't find a gem you thought you had, or you don't remember depositing at the bank for sure, and you wonder "Did I get stolen from?" "I thought I had my bags closed, but maybe they got me at some point I opened them briefly?" These are just a couple examples, but I hope you get the drift.
Simply the CHANCE of theft being possible, though even if it's super unlikely because you close your bags and deposit, has a lot of RP meaning, and can totally change the way someone interacts with who they think is a thief. The entire essence and genuineness is lost, and it simply becomes a fake scripted event.
With the flag on, you literally know with 100% certainty there was no possible way you were ever stolen from, so that element is completely lost.
When you RP as a thief, you typically have two options - 1)You get caught fairly often, and thus people very much know you are a thief. This results in a lot of trouble for you, both IC and often OOC. I find this to be a much more difficult road and simply more negative all around for all parties. Granted, some thieves, especially low level ones, simply have no choice but to go down this road, and I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it.
2)You almost never get caught. People occasionally notice stuff missing, and usually you are still known as a thief either from past circumstances, or OOC knowledge, so people suspect you. This is how I roll, personally (aside from the few times I run more overt RP events.), and it still results in plenty of interactions even though I was never actually caught. I even have many times been accused of stealing when I hadn't even stolen!
Those elements, and more, will totally be lost with those who have the flag on. Do you care? Probably not. I'm sure a lot of people don't really care. Hell, a lot of people don't even care to close their bags, either. But just because some people don't care, doesn't mean it's not a good thing for the game world, and it's sad to see something so unique about this game be gutted.
Last edited by Mobius1; 07-14-2022 at 12:59 PM.
Senior Member
That's a lot of words that don't answer my very simple question. I ask again:
IN CHARACTER, what is the functional difference between robbing someone who has the flag enabled and robbing someone who has nothing to steal?
And, to be clear, I'm not asking from the perspective of the mark. I'm asking from the perspective of the thief.
Last edited by HebrewToYou; 07-14-2022 at 01:01 PM.
Senior Member
I did answer it. The difference, for MY character, is that it impacts the way that others will interact with him. People will take his stealing less seriously if they are immune to it happening to them. Those same people have nothing stopping them from causing issues for the thief, either because they caught them stealing nothing from them, or because someone with the flag off was stolen from and they involve themselves. That's going to even lead to certain players using it as a power play over the thief (as I pointed out in post #35 of this thread.).
Things are already difficult enough as a thief. They have no need to get even more difficult.
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I must admit that I am confused how you, in character, can determine that someone is immune to your theft instead of just following the behavior patterns that I keep being told protect against thieving: closing containers and depositing silvers in the bank. Again, in character, how could you possibly know the difference?
Senior Member
Yeah, this is one of my issues with the flag. Thanks for pointing it out. It's an OOC flag with no IC explanation, and gives my character nothing to work with.
IC I could easily find out. Perhaps park myself at the advguild and steal a few silvers when they collect their bounty? Perhaps stalked them when they hunt? Or steal when they open their bag to tip. Etc. etc. This OOC flag leaves no way for my character to appropriately deal with the system. As I said in a previous post - The people who designed the CURRENT system, were wise in that regard, as they truly cared about the integrity of IC interaction.
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