Better start planning

[Shaps]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/03/weal...iden-plan.html

Potential 61% death tax.

Pay taxes your whole life - die - then they take the rest. Fucking sickening.

This doesn't even affect me, but no one should have their families life savings decimated like is being proposed.

You all that bust my balls for posting over the past few months, seriously need to wake the fuck up. The current administration is going to decimate all desire for people to elevate their position in life through hard work and fiscal responsibility.

The opportunity for upward mobility based upon individual drive and ambition is going to be demolished if they keep going.

We seriously need to get to a flat tax without loopholes to stop this insanity. No loopholes for anyone - just pay 25% in taxes and earn what you can in your life for you and your family.

Fingers crossed these jackasses don't succeed.

Also for you "pay their fair share" crowd - you full of shit jackasses - here's one example:

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of...a-2020-update/

"In 2017, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent."

"The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (38.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.9 percent)."

"The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 26.8 percent average individual income tax rate, which is more than six times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (4.0 percent)."

"Fair share" doesn't mean everything they have - "fair share" would be everyone paying in, but the "fair share" crowd are fucking idiots. So those "rich people" you all hate - better hope they don't stop working and live off what they have - because your ass is just going to be more poor and destitute.

[Skeletor]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/03/weal...iden-plan.html

Potential 61% death tax.

Pay taxes your whole life - die - then they take the rest. Fucking sickening.

This doesn't even affect me, but no one should have their families life savings decimated like is being proposed.

You all that bust my balls for posting over the past few months, seriously need to wake the fuck up. The current administration is going to decimate all desire for people to elevate their position in life through hard work and fiscal responsibility.

The opportunity for upward mobility based upon individual drive and ambition is going to be demolished if they keep going.

We seriously need to get to a flat tax without loopholes to stop this insanity. No loopholes for anyone - just pay 25% in taxes and earn what you can in your life for you and your family.

Fingers crossed these jackasses don't succeed.

Also for you "pay their fair share" crowd - you full of shit jackasses - here's one example:

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of...a-2020-update/

"In 2017, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent."

"The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (38.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.9 percent)."

"The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 26.8 percent average individual income tax rate, which is more than six times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (4.0 percent)."

"Fair share" doesn't mean everything they have - "fair share" would be everyone paying in, but the "fair share" crowd are fucking idiots. So those "rich people" you all hate - better hope they don't stop working and live off what they have - because your ass is just going to be more poor and destitute.

You know I always thought: what if you can raise your lot in life through your job status rather than how much money you got?

I mean that theoretically should mean far more as you have to actually work your ass off and do something very few people can (with certain "upper level" jobs like a scientist or engineer) while with money anyone can walk into a 7/11 pick out 6 numbers or be some 17-year old girl, throw money into Dogecoin, and become a millionaire overnight.

Anyone else thought about it this way?

[Shaps]

You know I always thought: what if you can raise your lot in life through your job status rather than how much money you got?

I mean that theoretically should mean far more as you have to actually work your ass off and do something very few people can (with certain "upper level" jobs like a scientist or engineer) while with money anyone can walk into a 7/11 pick out 6 numbers or be some 17-year old girl, throw money into Dogecoin, and become a millionaire overnight.

Anyone else thought about it this way?

Good points. I'm fine with people making money however they make it though. I don't care. I want people to earn for themselves and their family - through hard work, job skills, luck with lotto, or smart investing...

I do not agree with the Government taking so much % from people that achieve something for themselves and their families. I get it, some taxes are needed... but not at the fucking rates they're proposing.

The issue is all of the special interests, the convoluted laws which allow loopholes, etc. The issue is 50% of the populous paying literally all of the taxes for 100% of the populous. The issue is the repeated "pay their fair share" argument to make the bottom 50% actually hate the top 50% that are already paying all of the taxes.

It's fucking absurd.

25% flat tax on everyone - no loopholes - no breaks - no nothing. Go out, earn, know what you're giving to government to support national defense, highway system, etc.... and you're left alone to achieve for yourself and family as you see fit - with the time, effort, and energy that you invest into it without interference from the government.

I know 25% flat tax will never happen - but taxing someone's earning/savings when they die at a proposed 61% is fucking pure theft. No one deserves to have that done to themselves or their families.

[kutter]

The supreme irony is that the ones that can afford it will set up their estate in a trust and pay almost no takes, relative to estate value, when someone dies, but it takes a fair amount of money for this to be worth it.

I have been fortunate in my life, hard work and proper choices with a little bit of luck here and there have made me very comfortable, but I do not plan on leaving much of anything for the government get their hands on. If I spend my last dollar on the day I die, I would call that good planning.

Also Shaps, there is no way the tax rate would have to be 25% if everyone payed, more like 15%, but as you pointed out, it will never happen.

[Shaps]

The supreme irony is that the ones that can afford it will set up their estate in a trust and pay almost no takes, relative to estate value, when someone dies, but it takes a fair amount of money for this to be worth it.

I have been fortunate in my life, hard work and proper choices with a little bit of luck here and there have made me very comfortable, but I do not plan on leaving much of anything for the government get their hands on. If I spend my last dollar on the day I die, I would call that good planning.

Also Shaps, there is no way the tax rate would have to be 25% if everyone payed, more like 15%, but as you pointed out, it will never happen.

I love hearing about people like you. Happy for your success and earnings.

I don't know what the % would be, but I know a flat, no loop-hole tax on everyone would be preferable to the shit-show we have going on now.

Fucking politicians I swear.

[Shaps]

Did some fast math based off the 2017 numbers I'd linked earlier from the IRS:

10.9 Trillion adjusted gross income produced
1.6 Trillion in individual income taxes taken in

a 15% flat tax on everyone:
1.635 Trillion in individual taxes taken in

a 20% flat tax on everyone:
2.18 Trillion in individual taxes

a 25% flat tax on everyone:
2.725 Trillion in individual taxes

So you're right - 15% flat tax on everyone would be slightly over the current tax intake.

I say we compromise at 20%, maybe a flat 17.5% would be nicer - taking in more than currently. Much simpler system. Everyone knows everyone is paying in. Government can stop fucking around cause "they're getting theirs". And let people actually earn for themselves and their families.

That would solve so much fucking tension our politicians put us through and give the power back to the citizenry.

I fucking hate politicians.

[Seran]

Did some fast math based off the 2017 numbers I'd linked earlier from the IRS:

10.9 Trillion adjusted gross income produced
1.6 Trillion in individual income taxes taken in

a 15% flat tax on everyone:
1.635 Trillion in individual taxes taken in

a 20% flat tax on everyone:
2.18 Trillion in individual taxes

a 25% flat tax on everyone:
2.725 Trillion in individual taxes

So you're right - 15% flat tax on everyone would be slightly over the current tax intake.

I say we compromise at 20%, maybe a flat 17.5% would be nicer - taking in more than currently. Much simpler system. Everyone knows everyone is paying in. Government can stop fucking around cause "they're getting theirs". And let people actually earn for themselves and their families.

That would solve so much fucking tension our politicians put us through and give the power back to the citizenry.

I fucking hate politicians.

It's because you use adjusted gross income that your plan goes right out the window. So much of income for top wage earnings is in options and other non tangibles which are instead taxed at a much lower capital gains rate. This means that high earners may pay 30% of their earnings after substantial pre-tax earnings and HSA deductions, but the much larger form of actual income is at a discount not available to poor and middle class earners.

Instead, if you want to say a 10-15% tax on all earnings over 10,000, including the cash value of all options and stocks, before deductions and eliminate capital gains altogether, you would have a much more equitable system.

[Shaps]

It's because you use adjusted gross income that your plan goes right out the window. So much of income for top wage earnings is in options and other non tangibles which are instead taxed at a much lower capital gains rate. This means that high earners may pay 30% of their earnings after substantial pre-tax earnings and HSA deductions, but the much larger form of actual income is at a discount not available to poor and middle class earners.

Instead, if you want to say a 10-15% tax on all earnings over 10,000, including the cash value of all options and stocks, before deductions and eliminate capital gains altogether, you would have a much more equitable system.

I'm good with working out some measure like that. I'm more in the camp of I don't care how you earn money - capital gains, whatever.

Total earning for the year: 15% - regardless how you earned it. Do away with all loopholes and deductions. Flat % on everyone.

I could get behind the under $10k thing - actually I'd lean towards under $15k I think. Don't tax younger people doing summer jobs, etc. earning for themselves.

Wait there's more - because I'd like a compromise in health care to shut the politicians up. So this works (massage the numbers as you think more reasonable) this just my rough idea:

Under $15k/year: 3% tax on earnings (applied directly to health care)
Over $15k/year: 20% tax on earnings (3% applied directly to health care)

The 3% for health care fund pays for the following for ALL citizens regardless of earnings:
2xDental check up and standard cleaning per year
2xDoctors check up and standard tests/bloodwork per year

Private health care/funds pay for extended benefits and coverage under the free market system.

Ensuring consistent check-ups, cleanings, and preventative measures for all citizens ensures an overall healthier populous - while ensuring the rest of the system is not controlled by Government 100% resulting in reduced innovation and quality of care.

Something like that - what think?

[Seran]

It's a fair compromise. The Healthcare/HMO lobby would tear it apart unfortunately. Explaining to your average person why a flat percentage on total annualized earnings versus a step up tax with collindar level holes in it would take total bipartisan commitment

[Shaps]

It's a fair compromise. The Healthcare/HMO lobby would tear it apart unfortunately. Explaining to your average person why a flat percentage on total annualized earnings versus a step up tax with collindar level holes in it would take total bipartisan commitment

Yea - shame our politicians will keep fucking us.

Some reason they think the money you, me, and everyone else earns is theirs to just take unfortunately.