Ascension questions and more!

[Tgo01]

I've finally decided to get around to learning more about ascension and getting me some of those sweet, sweet, ascension points but I have many questions.

First of all: armor use! Did they redo the number of ranks required to wear armor or what? I could have sworn 8 ranks was required to train away all penalties (except spell hindrances) for double leather and 4 was required for full leather, but now the Wiki says 6 and 2 respectively?

What skills should, say, an empath have before focusing all experience on ascension?

Here is what I'm thinking for a runestaff using empath wearing double leathers:

Armor use: 56
Shield use: 0 (they made it so using a shield with a runestaff doesn't work now right?)
CM: max
PT: max
Dodge: max?
All magic skills: max (probably not EMC though)
Spells: max
Relevant lores: max
Perception: max
Enough climbing and swimming

This is like the basics for hunting and stuff, other skills like First Aid, Trading, or Picking Locks are optional.

Does that look right? Did I forget something? Any feedback would be great.

[Velfi]

Here is what I'm thinking for a runestaff using empath wearing double leathers:

Armor use: 56

U wot m8?

[Tgo01]

U wot m8?

Do empaths not need to get the AP reduction from overtraining in armor use? :O

Well I guess technically they don't need it, but is it not useful? I dunno. Was just thinking of all the benefits to get before switching over to 100% ascension.

[Velfi]

Do empaths not need to get the AP reduction from overtraining in armor use? :O

Well I guess technically they don't need it, but is it not useful? I dunno. Was just thinking of all the benefits to get before switching over to 100% ascension.

I can't imagine the AP benefit is worth all those TPs in AU vs just 3x in PF. I'm in brig and I have no plans on going past 35 AU, and definitely wouldn't be at 35 if I was in doubles. Just my opinion.

[Tgo01]

I can't imagine the AP benefit is worth all those TPs in AU vs just 3x in PF. I'm in brig and I have no plans on going past 35 AU, and definitely wouldn't be at 35 if I was in doubles. Just my opinion.

So just 6 armor use then? What about dodge? That's really a lot of points and I'm not sure if it's worth it.

[Velfi]

So just 6 armor use then? What about dodge? That's really a lot of points and I'm not sure if it's worth it.

I believe 8 is the magic number for doubles generally, and I think dodge would have a much greater benefit but it's far more TPs than AU. I wouldn't think dodge would be super important for a more standard caster/normally in guarded type, unless you're offensive channeling maybe, IDK.

[Darcthundar]

Shield use: 0 (they made it so using a shield with a runestaff doesn't work now right?)

It depends on what you mean by "Doesn't work." I have always gone shield/brawling, so I am a bit biased. Short of you not having a runestaff that returns to you when disarmed, the advantages of having a shield are 1) When you get diarmed your DS doesn't tank and 2) Extra enhancives that are on the shield.

These are the numbers I ran after they nerfed shield/runestaff (2018) and things may have changed

I have done the leg work and now you can make an informed decision:

First, the DS numbers are for a 100 trained sorcerer self-cast spells (no 140) with max dodge/cm, 20+ magical trains/level and 7x shield and runestaff. No brawling weapon.


STANCE OFFENSIVE:

shield/runestave

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +516 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +90 = -41
A clean miss.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

runestave only

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +556 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +88 = -83
A clean miss.

shield/brawling

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +537 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +9 = -143
A clean miss.


STANCE GUARDED:


shield/runestaff

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +607 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +44 = -178
A clean miss.

runestave

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +742 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +23 = -334
A clean miss.


shield/brawling

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +673 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +27 = -261
A clean miss.


BRAWLING/TWC

guarded +1 twc

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +598 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +80 = -133
A clean miss.

guarded +95 twc

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +700 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +86 = -263
A clean miss.

offensive +95 twc

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +501 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +30 = -120
A clean miss.



NO NOTHING (disarmed)

guarded

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +515 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +81 = -83
A clean miss.

offensive

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +452 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +39 = -62
A clean miss.


As you can see, post-capped runestaff DS is the highest. However, it should be noted I have 20+ trains of magical ranks/level. If I remember correctly, shield/brawling has a higher DS until you get between 12-15 magical ranks/level (it has been years and things may have changed). If one was to add a 7x brawling weapon to the mix, your DS would be over 700 in guarded.

This might give you something to think about. I have currently started several new character to see how my ideas on ascension pan out.

[Tgo01]

It depends on what you mean by "Doesn't work." I have always gone shield/brawling, so I am a bit biased. Short of you not having a runestaff that returns to you when disarmed, the advantages of having a shield are 1) When you get diarmed your DS doesn't tank and 2) Extra enhancives that are on the shield.

These are the numbers I ran after they nerfed shield/runestaff (2018) and things may have changed








This might give you something to think about. I have currently started several new character to see how my ideas on ascension pan out.

Awesome. Thank you very much for the data points.

[wetsand]

Full leather is 2 and double leather is 6. Armor use requirements were changed across the board last year. I don't think its worth the TPs(maybe way post cap?) to reduce AP for doubles(Which are only 6 AP). Per the Wiki "For example, an action penalty of -20 results in -10% to evade DS"

I would max dodge before even considering AP reduction for armors under 20 AP.

What about lore(s)? You don't list any but I suspect you have the benefits maxed?

If you are concerned about disarm, get 101 ranks of brawling + 1 rank of TWC to mitigate the risk. But to be honest in your situation I wouldn't bother.

100% Ascension and start maxing out stat(s) and/or skill(s). If something changes or you feel like you missed something just swap back to normal experience.

[Tgo01]

Full leather is 2 and double leather is 6. Armor use requirements were changed across the board last year.

Ah okay, so this is a relatively recent change. I knew I wasn't crazy.

I would max dodge before even considering AP reduction for armors under 20 AP.

Is maxing out dodge as an empath worth it before delving too far into ascension?

What about lore(s)? You don't list any but I suspect you have the benefits maxed?

My lores are maxed.

100% Ascension and start maxing out stat(s) and/or skill(s). If something changes or you feel like you missed something just swap back to normal experience.

True. I was just thinking long term and was wondering which skills aren't even worth picking up. Like Elemental Mana Control probably increases runestaff DS but is it really worth all those training points?