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Thread: This is what it's come to - Another example.

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaps View Post
    Someone doesn't like you're white? Fired
    Someone doesn't like you're black? Fired
    Someone doesn't like your straight? Fired
    Someone doesn't like your gay? Fired
    Someone doesn't like who you voted for? Fired
    Someone doesn't like what your after work hobby is? Fired
    Someone doesn't like how you raise your kids? Fired
    Someone doesn't like how you think? Fired
    Except he was removed from a volunteer organization, not fired from a "job," and FYI, he could have been fired any public sector job in the US for his poorly reasoned, racist rant and, in all likelihood, even as a public sector employee depending on the type of job he was doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaps
    For any firing, for any reason right?
    You mean at-will or "right to work" frameworks, the kind that conservatives celebrate?



    Tell us more about about when a company should be able to fire you, and why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaps
    I mean any of those standards a private organization might "feel that their message is not congruent with the image they want to cultivate". Right?
    That's precisely why they let him go: he doesn't represent their values.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaps
    The guy gave his opinion and stated facts.
    He gave his opinion, yes. Facts? Not really. He shat out tired distortion after distortion, mixed with outright lies. And he knew he'd be getting removed for it, as evidenced by his opening lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaps
    If that's a standard that you think the UNITED STATES Soccer Federation should not allow, then /shrug. Used to read and listen to your comments with respect, even if we did disagree here and there - past couple times though, feels like you're getting lazy with it.

    I wouldn't wish this on anyone, regardless of who they support or their personal beliefs. People really better hope it doesn't swing around to smack them in the face supporting positions like this.
    You're an idiot, getting called out by fellow conservatives. Perhaps you should take the time to revaluate your position rather than your usual strategy of doubling down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaps
    EDIT: And the way it's portrayed? Calling a Native American a racist? For stating facts and his opinion? Get the fuck outa here. You're better than that.
    Anyone can be racist, including minorities. And again, he didn't do much "fact stating." Get the fuck outa (sic) here. You're better than that. (... Not really).

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaps View Post
    Someone doesn't like you're white? Fired
    Someone doesn't like you're black? Fired
    Someone doesn't like your straight? Fired
    Someone doesn't like your gay? Fired
    Someone doesn't like who you voted for? Fired
    Someone doesn't like what your after work hobby is? Fired
    Someone doesn't like how you raise your kids? Fired
    Someone doesn't like how you think? Fired

    For any firing, for any reason right? I mean any of those standards a private organization might "feel that their message is not congruent with the image they want to cultivate". Right?

    The guy gave his opinion and stated facts. If that's a standard that you think the UNITED STATES Soccer Federation should not allow, then /shrug. Used to read and listen to your comments with respect, even if we did disagree here and there - past couple times though, feels like you're getting lazy with it.

    I wouldn't wish this on anyone, regardless of who they support or their personal beliefs. People really better hope it doesn't swing around to smack them in the face supporting positions like this.

    EDIT: And the way it's portrayed? Calling a Native American a racist? For stating facts and his opinion? Get the fuck outa here. You're better than that.
    You can literally be fired for anything that doesn't violate the civil rights act in any At-Will Employment state which includes:

    Someone doesn't like who you voted for? Fired
    Someone doesn't like what your after work hobby is? Fired
    Someone doesn't like how you raise your kids? Fired
    Someone doesn't like how you think? Fired

    Any of those things. And I'm not "getting lazy with it" I've consistently throughout the 14 years I've posted on here always expressed my belief that an employer should be able to fire an employee for basically anything they want.

    Next time someone gets canned for wearing a BLM hat at work, remember this thread.
    Last edited by Gelston; 03-02-2021 at 11:02 AM.
    Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelston View Post
    You can literally be fired for anything that doesn't violate the civil rights act in any At-Will Employment state which includes:

    Someone doesn't like who you voted for? Fired
    Someone doesn't like what your after work hobby is? Fired
    Someone doesn't like how you raise your kids? Fired
    Someone doesn't like how you think? Fired

    Any of those things. And I'm not "getting lazy with it" I've consistently throughout the 14 years I've posted on here always expressed my belief that an employer should be able to fire an employee for basically anything they want.

    Next time someone gets canned for wearing a BLM hat at work, remember this thread.
    The distinction to me was this was during a debate concerning an issue that the Soccer Federation was having. It was opened up for people to present their ideas and thoughts on what was being ruled on. This was not while work was being conducted.

    That's like having a Command Climate Survey - told to honestly present your opinions - then facing repercussions for it. I find that abhorrent.

    If that's how you feel, then so be it - but if that is the case, people need to shut the hell up about Colin Kaepernick, people should shut up about Bakeries, people should shut up about any number of things.

    If this guy had protested while he was actually working or competing I get it - those actions affect the work environment. In a forum discussing a topic where opinions should be listened to and supposedly open for discourse? Pathetic.

    Wonder what the response would be if the US Soccer Federation determined that anyone who kneels is fired? How would you feel then? How would it be presented on the media and in the news? It's the bullshit double standard.

    Your example of a BLM hat at a workplace - I would ask is it during work hours? Is there a dress code? Is there interaction with the public or customers? Etc..... If someone got fired for putting on a BLM hat and supporting that cause in their personal time (so long as peaceful) and got fired - I would make the same argument, and fight for them to keep their job. If there was a meeting held at the company and a person supporting BLM spoke openly about their beliefs and got fired, I would make the same argument and fight for them to keep their job.

    That is the difference.
    Last edited by Shaps; 03-02-2021 at 01:26 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaps View Post

    Wonder what the response would be if the US Soccer Federation determined that anyone who kneels is fired? How would you feel then? How would it be presented on the media and in the news? It's the bullshit double standard.

    Your example of a BLM hat at a workplace - I would ask is it during work hours? Is there a dress code? Is there interaction with the public or customers? Etc..... If someone got fired for putting on a BLM hat and supporting that cause in their personal time (so long as peaceful) and got fired - I would make the same argument, and fight for them to keep their job. If there was a meeting held at the company and a person supporting BLM spoke openly about their beliefs and got fired, I would make the same argument and fight for them to keep their job.

    That is the difference.
    If they decided to fire people for kneeling, I'd be fine with that too, because they are a private entity and have the right to fire employees.

    In your "they shouldn't be able to fire them" world, who enforces this? Does the Government force an organization or business to keep someone? Are you saying you favor more government oversight of private organizations and businesses?
    Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelston View Post
    If they decided to fire people for kneeling, I'd be fine with that too, because they are a private entity and have the right to fire employees.

    In your "they shouldn't be able to fire them" world, who enforces this? Does the Government force an organization or business to keep someone? Are you saying you favor more government oversight of private organizations and businesses?
    Well, to be fair, the government already does that for some classes of people. Political allegiances and/or political opinions do not constitute a protected class, though.

    ETA: nor do I think those should be protected classes.
    Last edited by caelric; 03-02-2021 at 01:34 PM.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelston View Post
    If they decided to fire people for kneeling, I'd be fine with that too, because they are a private entity and have the right to fire employees.

    In your "they shouldn't be able to fire them" world, who enforces this? Does the Government force an organization or business to keep someone? Are you saying you favor more government oversight of private organizations and businesses?
    I'm saying that if a person's personal beliefs are expressed in the appropriate forum, and their actions while at work are in line with the companies guidelines then they should not face repercussions. Correct.

    I am fine with Private Businesses hiring who they want. I am fine with Private Businesses firing who they want. I am not fine with businesses firing people, when the business themselves, opened up a forum of debate on an issue they are discussing - then penalizing an employee for speaking their mind during said forum.

    That's just bullshit.

    "HEY!!! HEY!!! WE WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU THINK!? GIVE US FEEDBACK ON THIS ISSUE AFFECTING THE COMPANY!!! WE VALUE YOUR INPUT!!!"

    **raises hand** "I think we should..."

    "NOT THAT INPUT!!! YOU'RE FIRED!!!!"

    That's utter bullshit.

    Now if this guy was out there before matches shouting about this and that, affecting the business, and telling people to go fuck themselves - I 100% get firing him... but he wasn't.
    Last edited by Shaps; 03-02-2021 at 01:40 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by caelric View Post
    Well, to be fair, the government already does that for some classes of people. Political allegiances and/or political opinions do not constitute a protected class, though.
    I understand that the Civil Rights Act protects people from being fired for certain things, such as race, color, religion, sex, and national origin. I do not think it needs to be expanded for everything under the sun. I want as little Government involvement in private affairs as possible.
    Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaps View Post
    I'm saying that if a person's personal beliefs are expressed in the appropriate forum, and their actions while at work are in line with the companies guidelines then they should not face repercussions. Correct.

    I am fine with Private Businesses hiring who they want. I am fine with Private Businesses firing who they want. I am not fine with businesses firing people, when the business themselves, opened up a forum of debate on an issue they are discussing - then penalizing an employee for speaking their mind during said forum.

    That's just bullshit.

    "HEY!!! HEY!!! WE WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU THINK!? GIVE US FEEDBACK ON THIS ISSUE AFFECTING THE COMPANY!!! WE VALUE YOUR INPUT!!!"

    **raises hand** "I think we should..."

    "NOT THAT INPUT!!! YOU'RE FIRED!!!!"

    That's utter bullshit.
    So are you saying the want the Government to force them to reinstate him?
    Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelston View Post
    I understand that the Civil Rights Act protects people from being fired for certain things, such as race, color, religion, sex, and national origin. I do not think it needs to be expanded for everything under the sun. I want as little Government involvement in private affairs as possible.
    Totally agree. That's why I added my comment under ETA.

  10. #20
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    I completely agree it is shitty to fire/remove someone when you ask them to freely voice their opinion on a matter. I also completely agree it was the council's right to remove him. It is what it is.
    Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

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