Pure bard training

[wetsand]

Shield vs Runestaff for pure bard? Here is my current training.

(at level 88), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
  Skill Name                         | Actual  Actual
                                     |  Bonus   Ranks      Goals  In-Game Time to Goal
  Armor Use..........................|    150      50         50
  Combat Maneuvers...................|     82      18         18
  Multi Opponent Combat..............|    138      10         10  
  Physical Fitness...................|    188      88         88
  Dodging............................|    188      88         88
  Harness Power......................|    188      88         88
  Elemental Mana Control.............|    120      30         30
  Mental Mana Control................|    105      25         25
  Elemental Lore - Air...............|    120      30         30
  Mental Lore - Manipulation.........|    175      75         75
  Survival...........................|    105      25         25
  Perception.........................|    188      88         88
  Climbing...........................|    155      55         55
  Swimming...........................|    145      45         45
Spell Lists
  Minor Elemental....................|             30         30
Spell Lists
  Bard...............................|             88         88
Training Points: 1668 Phy 0 Mnt (850 Phy converted to Mnt)

[caelric]

Get some more CM for defensive purposes including CDEF. Then start upping your 400s for the CS bonus from 425.

[Maerit]

Super TP intensive to go runestaff pre-cap. I'd go shield/brawl, maybe drop your dodge down a little to get 2x shield and 2x brawl. If you're not getting forced to higher stances, 2x brawl was more DS than 2x shield. In higher stances 2x shield was higher than 2x brawl. At cap my best DS config before hitting 10mil XP was 2x brawl, 2x shield, 50 dodge, 100 bard & 30 MnE.

Sonic Runestaff is nice once you are post-cap like 15-18mil XP, but it's a lot of TPs. My bard also still has 0 CM because CM training was not greater than dodge training and more expensive than perception. Since bards do have DS issues it was better to get the dodge ranks and focus on DS while gaining SMR defense at the same time. CM will happen post-cap IMO. My 1st priority will probably be 2x spells though I might ditch that and pick up 1x CMAN before finishing spells... we'll have to see what the potential bard review looks like.

[wetsand]

Can I squeak by DS wise with my current magic ranks per level of ~4.15?

I was thinking; drop brawling plus some other minor skills, and use a runestaff with the above build and reevaluate after the review. That way I use my banked fixskill before the review but leave the option open to go back to a physical build if needed.

Gear: 5x/4x T4 nervestaff and +40 aug chain

[Maerit]

I don't think you will enjoy it. I tried it out without post-cap training and my DS was about 480 at cap in guarded vs what it is now (~750) with the same gear (albeit sonic runestaff vs greatshield + ebladed gloves). You need to be around 7 magic ranks per level for runestaff DS to make much sense.

Rangers have incredibly good DS compared to Bards.

The best time to go runestaff is when you can have both 75 Manip (+26 telepathy) and +75 air lore + 1x MIU/AS/MMC/ 2x HP and 130+ ranks in spells. This makes your sonic runestaff awesome because of the flare strength while giving you sufficient DS, and if you can maintain 1035 even better (as it will help DS). I don't think you can get the TPs for this kind of setup until pretty far post-cap.

[gilchristr]

I just did a pure bard... I did more MnE ranks than bard ranks (keeping MnE at level).

I did it because the CS cost was very low (each MnE rank is worth like .83 CS vs 1 CS rank for a bard rank), but it provides more TD not to mention making ewave better. Both of those are defensive value - ward spells in the case of TD or putting critters in more RT with better ewave.

Either way, I think you need more spells for your build. You could do 88 MnE and 50 bard for example. That would be 1.5x spell training which I think you should be aiming for if you want to be a pure bard.

EDIT - I do not understand why 75 manipulation lore is often recommended for a pure bard. I know it makes 1030 "more powerful" - but its akin to adding damage weighting to a claid. With 1030 I am crit killing, not bleeding out critters, so added damage seems worthless. I could be missing something here, but most guides I have read have been at the level of "get 75 ranks for better 1030." I would look at stopping manipulation lore at 15 ranks and putting the many TPs you will save into something better like more spell ranks (for example). More CS, for example, especially up to 2x per level in spells, would increase the chance of that crit kill you are going for with 1030.

EDIT2 - this is from the gswiki on ewave. "The primary success factor of this spell is a level comparison of the caster versus its targets. Minor Elemental ranks are also factored in." And not that Ewave success is not just binary - you can put creatures in longer RT with greater success (with low success they could get knocked down but cast at you from the ground right away). The point about the casting failure with ewave an augmented chain cuts both ways (I would wear double leather to avoid spell failure with a critical spell, such as ewave)

[Maerit]

I just did a pure bard... I did more MnE ranks than bard ranks (keeping MnE at level).

I did it because the CS cost was very low (each MnE rank is worth like .83 CS vs 1 CS rank for a bard rank), but it provides more TD not to mention making ewave better. Both of those are defensive value - ward spells in the case of TD or putting critters in more RT with better ewave.

Either way, I think you need more spells for your build. You could do 88 MnE and 50 bard for example. That would be 1.5x spell training which I think you should be aiming for if you want to be a pure bard.

2 quick things.

1. I am like 90% sure spell ranks don't have anything to do with ewave - it's success is level based which is why a capped warrior with 10 ranks in MnE can still knock like-level tragets over with ewave.
2. Casting ewave while wearing aug chain is a gamble.

I'd recommend sticking to Bard ranks to 100 then switching to boosting MnE for the following reasons:
- 1010 bonus DS
- 1019 bonus dodge ranks
- 1013 mana draining amount is tied to Bard spell ranks (so many people ignore this spell, and it's nearly as good as 516 if you know what to target and have .5x MMC).
- I think at 50 ranks you get max (7x) Sonic Equipment, so that might be safe.
- 1005 is tied to Bard spell ranks.
- 1006 activation is tied to Bard spell ranks.
- I'm not positive on this, but 1040 success may be influenced by Bard spell ranks.
- 1004 will blow up more gems and purify for less overall.

Also, you won't be as good at RECALL for those rare times you actually spend your weekly resources.

Overall, you get a lot more bang for your TPs investing in Bard to 1x over MnE. I've heard bards sticking to 30 ranks in MnE all the way up to 25mil XP.

[gilchristr]

To get more spells, you could drop dodging completly. The opportunity cost of those 88 dodging ranks is 24 spell ranks. Thats more of all the things Maerit pointed out if its pumped into bard spells (or its worth 12 TD if its pumped into MnE ranks), not to mention another 20-24 CS for your 1030.

[wetsand]

Thank you for the suggestions and input. I've decided to leave most of the skills alone and just dump a few minor things. Going forward I will concentrate on filling in some more magic skills and see how the review goes. Self spelled DS is okay, even utilizing a runestaff.

(at level 88), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
  Skill Name                         | Current Current
                                     |   Bonus   Ranks
  Armor Use..........................|     150      50
  Combat Maneuvers...................|      82      18
  Brawling...........................|     269     169
  Multi Opponent Combat..............|     136      10
  Physical Fitness...................|     188      88
  Dodging............................|     188      88
  Harness Power......................|     188      88
  Elemental Mana Control.............|     117      25
  Mental Mana Control................|     105      25
  Elemental Lore - Air...............|     120      30
  Mental Lore - Manipulation.........|     175      75
  Survival...........................|     105      25
  Perception.........................|     188      88
  Climbing...........................|     155      55
  Swimming...........................|     145      45

Spell Lists
  Minor Elemental....................|              30

Spell Lists
  Bard...............................|              88

Training Points: 253 Phy 0 Mnt (1392 Phy converted to Mnt)

[Darcthundar]

This is a day late and a dollar short. My vote is going brawling/shield. At 90 I am destroying the bowels as a brawling/shield pure bard.

XXXXXXXX (at level 90), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 150 50
Shield Use.........................| 192 92
Brawling...........................| 192 92
Physical Fitness...................| 197 97
Dodging............................| 192 92
Harness Power......................| 192 92
Elemental Mana Control.............| 86 19
Mental Mana Control................| 25 5
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 175 75
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 66 14
Survival...........................| 149 49
Perception.........................| 192 92
Climbing...........................| 160 60
Swimming...........................| 160 60
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 35
Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 104

Training Points: 193 Phy 0 Mnt (1810 Phy converted to Mnt)

My DS is 567 lying prone (I had a full compliment of Invoker spells active

An Illoke jarl dips his shoulder and rushes towards you!
[SMR result: 102 (Open d100: 78)]
Your size enormously hinders your defense!
The Illoke jarl slams into you, and you are sent careening to the ground!
... 10 points of damage!
Light strike to your chest.
You are struck by an acute sense of vulnerability.
Roundtime: 12 sec.

In an awe-inspiring display of combat mastery, an Illoke jarl engages you in a furious dance macabre, spiraling into a blur of strikes and ripostes!
An Illoke jarl swings a slate grey stone hammer at you!
AS: +426 vs DS: +567 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +68 = -40
A clean miss.

An Illoke jarl swings a slate grey stone hammer at you!
AS: +426 vs DS: +567 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +41 = -67
A clean miss.

An Illoke jarl swings a slate grey stone hammer at you!
AS: +426 vs DS: +567 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +46 = -62
A clean miss.

An Illoke jarl swings a slate grey stone hammer at you!
Lying flat on your back, you lean to one side and dodge the attack!


My CS is 449. I also use 1005 (lullaby) as my opener


You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at an Illoke jarl.
The Illoke jarl falls to the ground in a deep slumber.
Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)

An Illoke jarl snorfles softly in his sleep.

You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at an Illoke jarl.
[Spell Hindrance for some dark vultite augmented chain is 8% with current Armor Use skill, d100= 5]
Your armor prevents the song from working correctly.

You change your tune slightly, adding the element for Song of Sonic Disruption to your song...
Your spellsong is ready.

You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at an Illoke jarl.
An Illoke jarl is awakened by your attack!
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an Illoke jarl suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +449 - TD: +336 + CvA: +20 + d100: +19 == +152
Warding failed!
An Illoke jarl reels under the force of the sonic vibrations!
Sound waves disrupt for 67 damage!
... 70 points of damage!
Spine ripped from the Illoke jarl's body and thrown to the ground.
You sense a surge of essence being dragged from the jarl, only to dissipate as your multicolored soulstone overflows with power.
The Illoke jarl grumbles in pain one last time before lying still.
The very powerful look leaves an Illoke jarl.
The white light leaves an Illoke jarl.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around an Illoke jarl.
An Illoke jarl appears to be less clearly focused.
An Illoke jarl loses the flickering energy surrounding him.
An Illoke jarl seems to lose some focus as his eyes narrow and shift momentarily to one side.
The warm glow fades from around an Illoke jarl.

Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.


My TD is 357. Also a full compliment of Invoker spells.

An Illoke jarl's eyes glow with silvery grey light, and then everything around you shimmers to match the argentine color.
CS: +369 - TD: +357 + CvA: -16 + d100: +25 == +21
Warded off!
With a faint flicker, the grey luminescence fades away.


I am also a firm believer in pre-cap use of Ascension points. As you can see I have a few. My plan is once I hit cap I plan I will stop Ascension training and catchup on my skills (ie., Shield/Brawling, CM etc)


XXXXXXXX, your Ascension Abilities are as follows:

Skill Mnemonic Ranks Type Category Subcategory
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agility agility 5/40 Passive Common Stat
Aura aura 15/40 Passive Common Stat
Dexterity dexterity 5/40 Passive Common Stat
Logic logic 5/40 Passive Common Stat
Physical Fitness physicalfitness 5/50 Passive Common Skill
Porter porter 5/50 Passive Common Other
Strength strength 5/40 Passive Common Stat


Name: XXXXXXX Race: Burghal Gnome Profession: Bard (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 6,554,585 Level: 90
Ascended (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 102 (11) ... 102 (11)
Constitution (CON): 95 (32) ... 95 (32)
Dexterity (DEX): 102 (36) ... 102 (36)
Agility (AGI): 102 (36) ... 102 (36)
Discipline (DIS): 99 (19) ... 99 (19)
Aura (AUR): 112 (36) ... 112 (36)
Logic (LOG): 104 (37) ... 104 (37)
Intuition (INT): 84 (22) ... 84 (22)
Wisdom (WIS): 97 (23) ... 97 (23)
Influence (INF): 90 (15) ... 90 (15)
Mana: 136 Silver: 0