Naijin F’d up CMANs - Share & Discuss

[drumpel]

If going by Naijin it should be harder to connect with you on your Halfling but it would hit harder after connection.

I still don’t get cunning defense. So many GMs are babbling about how even 1% is a “big deal” but I think thats bull. I guess further testing?

A 1% increase for AS/DS/TD/CS can be significant.

If you're near capped or capped and you swing with 450 AS - 1% of that is 4.5. If truncated you net +4, if not you net +5 to your AS. This is built on a closed system, you know what your thresholds for hitting a target are or for defending are. If you know getting an extra 5 to your TD makes you invulnerable to the creatures you're hunting, you can generally find a way to get that +5 to keep you protected at all times.

A 1% increase for your SMRv2 defense might be beneficial, but at a much lesser amount. SMRv2 is an open roll system. Regardless of how much extra defense you can put towards your SMRv2, you're still going to get fucked with the open rolls. No one is safe from SMR, ever. I found it irritating that my burghal gnome lost 20 to his SMRv2 defense against krag dwellers. It used to take around 80+ roll to him him, under the changes it's now a 60+ roll to him him, yes he is over hunting them right now by a few levels....but that loss of 20 defense is big; even on a low endroll of 104+ he's getting stunned 4+ rounds and left prone. I've been hit by the boulder maneuver 6 times since I started hunting him after about a month break from playing him and I don't hunt him that often, one or two hunts a day.

I suppose the maneuvers would irritate me less if they didn't outright maim and stun for days on lower endrolls, or even kill at times. Perhaps they should be looking into how those low endrolls of 101-105 are lethal (at times) to certain classes or at least those in non-crit padded light armor or robes. I've had boar charges with a 102 endroll do a rank 3 crit on my sorcerer a handful of times....a fucking 102. I can understand getting knocked over, maybe with a small wound with low 1-2 round stun with a roll like that.....but a 102 endroll doing a rank 3 crit to the eye is fucked up. Nothing like passing through a room and instantly dead from a 102 endroll from a boar charge.

[Orthin]

Not an attack on you, but I would say that if staying prone means you're more survivable and defendable in melee combat, there are some design problems in there somewhere.

My pure cleric was this way in Den of Rot - it was more dangerous to be stuck in RT lock from constant 20 second tackles than to fight on my back. My guess is the bard is a pure

[caelric]

Oh, I'm sure the bard is a pure, and that it worked that way for you, as well.

But it's a bad design decision. I mean, if something can CMAN TACKLE something standing, it **should** be even easier to tackle someone that's prone and send them into extended RT.

I'd say it's a problem with CMAN TACKLE or whatever CMAN was being used.

[Orthin]

double post for some reason

[Orthin]

Oh, I'm sure the bard is a pure, and that it worked that way for you, as well.

But it's a bad design decision. I mean, if something can CMAN TACKLE something standing, it **should** be even easier to tackle someone that's prone and send them into extended RT.

I'd say it's a problem with CMAN TACKLE or whatever CMAN was being used.

Tackle doesn't work while you are prone because...well your prone

[caelric]

Tackle doesn't work while you are prone because...well your prone

Well, yeah, but if you can tackle someone standing up, then certainly, you can dogpile on top of them when they are laying down, which should give even more RT. Perhaps less damage, from them not hitting the ground in a tackle, but certainly more disabling, I would think.

[Airemet]

So I’ve done some extensive testing with SMRv2 at capped hunting on the test server. I had 2 test subjects, both capped, one a Halfling the other a Giantman, they were completely maxed in cman skills with 100 million in ascension exp. This is what I discovered.

Cunning Defense is huge. Yeah, everbody was wondering why they would waste like 20 points or 40 if you’re a pure but it matters especially toward the upper end. The reason why is that even a 1 point difference is huge when you’re dealing with a window to get hit of say 10 to 15.

That 10 to 15 point difference existed against enemies that were post-cap such as greater water elementals or Vvrael destroyers etc. This made sense since I was a maxed ascension character.

Therefore, this means that enemies would need to roll a 86 or above or 91 or above to actually hit me depending upon the post-cap enemy. That means even a 1 point increase will effectively yield compared to someone who has and doesn’t have cunning defense a +10% increase in defense. To put that another way if a character without cunning gets hit 1,000 times a character with cunning will get hit only 900 times.

In fact, it’s slightly better than that as those 30 dodge ranks I think yields around 1.5% bonus (an eyeballed guess). The half a point bonus does appear as the endrolls will vary between two distinct numbers, similar to how “in-between” cer on crit weighting works.

These were on fully maxed characters with absolutely no room for improvement on their respective cman skills.

I’ve begun to do testing on less well trained characters and currently it’s a predictable progression. That is, the number of points that those 30 dodge ranks yields become more and more apparent, however the window for a critter to hit you widens gradually as well. If I were to guess the % chance of being hit stays roughly the same as long as you are not overhunting in excess of a couple levels or so.

[Hedrik]

The new CMAN system gave my bard some more flexibility. Cunning Defense adding phantom ranks of dodge makes it increasingly useless the further post cap you get and you can put the CMAN points somewhere else.

I'm not a fan of the new SMR2 system at all but I suppose this is there way of dealing with power creep. Naijin just made it all about RNG and open rolls make any decision you make or training setup useless.

[Orthin]

Well, yeah, but if you can tackle someone standing up, then certainly, you can dogpile on top of them when they are laying down, which should give even more RT. Perhaps less damage, from them not hitting the ground in a tackle, but certainly more disabling, I would think.

I smell two new CMAN's you can sell on Discord

Dogpile - Warriors
Teabag - Rogues

essentially do the same thing, add RT to prone targets and force stance open

[caelric]

Bonus points for Teabag.