Old DFRedux vs. Modern Redux

[Airemet]

DFredux was way before my time. Anyone have any hard numbers on the % reduction vs. the % reduction of today’s redux?

[Taernath]

Did something change?

This is Riltus' thread from a few years ago:

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthrea...-Redux-Formula

[Airemet]

Did something change?

This is Riltus' thread from a few years ago:

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthrea...-Redux-Formula

Nah, I just heard old redux can get over 60% or something nutty. I’m wondering if Naijin used the old redux formula for Kroderine Soul’s damage mitigation.

Cool, thanks for the current redux formula, it’ll be helpful for comparison purposes.

[Riltus]

Nah, I just heard old redux can get over 60% or something nutty. I’m wondering if Naijin used the old redux formula for Kroderine Soul’s damage mitigation.

Cool, thanks for the current redux formula, it’ll be helpful for comparison purposes.

Do not rely on that redux formula's accuracy. The additional damage reduction from CMAN Kroderine Soul appears to be 10% but it is applied twice on two different values so there is some percentage variability in the total bonus. As a generalization you can expect total AS-based damage to be reduced by approximately 15 to 20%. Also, you need to have redux active to receive the CMAN KS bonus.

Here is an example of how KS w/redux (required) compares to redux only damage reduction.

Target is level 100 warrior with 3600 redux points which translates to a redux factor of .350

1. Redux Only

Wizard hurls a large boulder at you!
AS: +455 vs DS: +27 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +27 = +495
... and hits for 166 points of damage!
Blow to your head removes your skull. That's got to hurt!

Weapon Damage Factor: .800
Endroll success margin: 395
Critical Dmg: 50 (Impact R9 Head)
Redux Factor: .350
Reduced Damage Factor: .520 [(1 - RF .350) * .800)]

DFr .520 * 395 success margin = 205
205 + 50 crit = 255
.ceil(1 - RF .350) * 255 = 166 total damage

2. Redux with Kroderine Soul

Wizard hurls a large boulder at you!
AS: +455 vs DS: +27 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +27 = +495
... and hits for 138 points of damage!
Blow to your head removes your skull. That's got to hurt!

Same as above with the following added:

DFr .520 * 0.9 * 395 = 185
185 + 50 crit = 235
.ceil(1 - RF .350) * 0.9 * 235 = .ceil( .65 * 0.9 * 235 ) = 138 total damage

Total calculated damage with redux only: 166
Total calculated damage with KS + redux: 138

In the above example KS damage reduction was 28 HPs or ~17%. (166 - 138 and 28/166, respectively).

What I do not know is whether or not the maximum critical rank is calculated from the standard reduced damage (205 in the example above) or the KS reduced damage (185). You would need to get GM confirmation on this. I tested a few different weapon bases and characters with different redux factor values and 10% (applied twice) satisfied all the actual damage outcomes.

Mark

[Airemet]

Do not rely on that redux formula's accuracy. The additional damage reduction from CMAN Kroderine Soul appears to be 10% but it is applied twice on two different values so there is some percentage variability in the total bonus. As a generalization you can expect total AS-based damage to be reduced by approximately 15 to 20%. Also, you need to have redux active to receive the CMAN KS bonus.

Here is an example of how KS w/redux (required) compares to redux only damage reduction.

Target is level 100 warrior with 3600 redux points which translates to a redux factor of .350

1. Redux Only

Wizard hurls a large boulder at you!
AS: +455 vs DS: +27 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +27 = +495
... and hits for 166 points of damage!
Blow to your head removes your skull. That's got to hurt!

Weapon Damage Factor: .800
Endroll success margin: 395
Critical Dmg: 50 (Impact R9 Head)
Redux Factor: .350
Reduced Damage Factor: .520 [(1 - RF .350) * .800)]

DFr .520 * 395 success margin = 205
205 + 50 crit = 255
.ceil(1 - RF .350) * 255 = 166 total damage

2. Redux with Kroderine Soul

Wizard hurls a large boulder at you!
AS: +455 vs DS: +27 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +27 = +495
... and hits for 138 points of damage!
Blow to your head removes your skull. That's got to hurt!

Same as above with the following added:

DFr .520 * 0.9 * 395 = 185
185 + 50 crit = 235
.ceil(1 - RF .350) * 0.9 * 235 = .ceil( .65 * 0.9 * 235 ) = 138 total damage

Total calculated damage with redux only: 166
Total calculated damage with KS + redux: 138

In the above example KS damage reduction was 28 HPs or ~17%. (166 - 138 and 28/166, respectively).

What I do not know is whether or not the maximum critical rank is calculated from the standard reduced damage (205 in the example above) or the KS reduced damage (185). You would need to get GM confirmation on this. I tested a few different weapon bases and characters with different redux factor values and 10% (applied twice) satisfied all the actual damage outcomes.

Mark

Mark you’re a treasure, thank you.

And interesting so KS is basically an additional +15~20% off damage on top of whatever Redux shaved off. Of course, with the added benefit that it also works on warding spells.

I assume the warding spells is not just the 10% from KS but the full Redux +10%.

Hrm, I’m see-sawing back and forth if it’s all worth it. A true-capped warrior minus all the spells and magic stuff is looking at a maximum redux of roughly 50%, add KS and that is effectively 65% which applies to all-incoming damage regardless of source.

That just sounds incredible.

Then you can start stacking resistances on top of it with Ascension or whatever and you’re rocking 80% Synthetic-Redux from all damage? No? Or am I just dreaming?

[Riltus]

Unfortunately redux only activates vs AS-based attacks (melee, bolt spells, ranged). CS-based and all other magic (flares etc) bypass redux. I don't have the % of magic inflicted damage that KS removes but I'll see what I can do.

Mark

[Airemet]

Unfortunately redux only activates vs AS-based attacks (melee, bolt spells, ranged). CS-based and all other magic (flares etc) bypass redux. I don't have the % of magic inflicted damage that KS removes but I'll see what I can do.

Mark

If I just had access to test instance... <hand wringing intensifies>

[Riltus]

The damage reduction for physical damage from magical spells is 1/3rd. I don't know how many spells or other magical attacks this affects but it reduced damage for the following spells that I tested: Harm (1101), initial concussion damage for Nature's Fury (635), 1st cycle and subsequent damage cycles for Fervent Reproach (312) and concussion damage for Smite/Bane (302).

1. Harm (1101)

CS: +479 - TD: +314 + CvA: +25 + d100: +23 - +5 == +208
Warding failed!
Heat builds in your flesh and rises to the surface, rippling your skin and leaving a faint beading of scarlet in its wake.
... 29 points of damage!

Total calculated damage: 15 base + trunc(0.100 * 108) + 19 lore bonus (200 ranks) = 44
KS actual damage: trunc(44 * 2)/3 = 29

2. Nature's Fury (635)

CS: +475 - TD: +284 + CvA: +25 + d100: +14 - +5 == +225
Warding failed!
You are caught by a gathering of the hard grass!
... 26 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Move scratches the eye which quickly fills with tears.
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 7 rounds!
... 25 points of damage!
Strong blow to your chest!
As swiftly as the chaos came to be, it recedes again into the surroundings.

Initial calculated damage: 15 + (0.200 * 125) = 40
KS actual damage = trunc(40 * 2)/3 = 26

3. Fervent Reproach (312)

CS: +495 - TD: +314 + CvA: +25 + d100: +77 - +5 == +278
Warding failed!
The two lines squarely impact Serolan, discharging the ale-brown energy over his entire being for 82 points of damage!
The ale-brown energy continues to ripple over Serolan inflicting 57 points of damage

1st cycle calculated damage: 178 * 0.7 = 124

KS actual damage: trunc(124 * 2)/3 = 82

4. Smite/Bane (302)

A scintillating, blue-white aura encompasses you.
CS: +495 - TD: +314 + CvA: +25 + d100: +18 - +5 == +219
Warding failed!
A massive beam of blue-white energy engulfs you in a luminous column of light!
You are hit for 30 points of damage!

Calculated damage: 119 * .5 = 59.5 which caps at 45
KS actual damage: (45 * 2)/3 = 30

Mark

[Ardwen]

Original Redux it was quite possible to get 85+ redux, plus there were more skills figured in to the math.

[Stunseed]

Original Redux it was quite possible to get 85+ redux, plus there were more skills figured in to the math.

For sure. Back in GS3, I remember Zosopage rocking somewhere around 91% during the V'reen storyline in IMT.

In GS4, my <incorrect, mind you> redux states around 49% before the crit divisor of full plate. My calcredux average is around 82.5% walking around absorbing the 0% hits from bandits.

[redux: Level: 100]
[redux: Primary skills: 300]
[redux: Secondary skils: 1242]
[redux: Tertiary skills: 86]
[redux: Redux points: 8226.0]
[redux: Your Redux estimates to be 49.06%.]

A bloodthirsty Silent Investor marauder swings a claidhmore at you!
AS: +560 vs DS: +371 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +47 = +255
... and hits for 8 points of damage!
Slash to your chest!
That heart's not broken, it's only scratched.
!R>
[calcredux: Instance redux is 99%]
[calcredux: Average redux is 84.288%]