GMs are going to literally rewrite game lore and mechanics to remove racism

[bunnymustdie]

This is a slippery slope. I don’t see how they expect to move forward with racial biases on stats. HK have a huge penalty to logic. So are we saying HK are basically dumb compared to other races?

That's how they are meant to be in game right now, dumb half monkey people with superior physical stats. Apparently this is now not ok:

GM Auchand's stance on this, from the discord on 6/28/20, 10:40PM:

@LukeDuke, I was with you until another GM put it to me this way: "Are you really telling me that members of [race] are, on average, dumber than members of [other-race]? And that doesn't bother you?"
It squicked me out.

For reference, LukeDuke's comment that Auchand responded to was just "I really don't like the idea of being able to choose your stats.". And hell, I'm personally ok with average members of one fantasy race in our game being dumber than members of another race because they're basically different species the way the game's lore is set up.


Another thing that bugged me when I went through the discord conversations on this:

From GM Kveta on 6/28/20 11:11PM:

I know that everyone knows that this is a game. But this is also a particularly fraught time in our culture. So we really had to balance saying that we were doing SOMETHING with the understanding that we didn't know exactly all of what that something is.
...
But some people were also frustrated at our silence.

From what I get out of these comments, these proposed changes are in response to current real life political matters and a desire to do something, send some sort of signal, perhaps of a virtuous kind, no matter whether it's appropriate or useful for either this game or the political situation going on IRL at all.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Kveta sounds like a snowflake in her safe zone on campus during pride month surrounded by other snowflakes screaming at the sky because microaggressions and isms galore.

[Fortybox]

That's how they are meant to be in game right now, dumb half monkey people with superior physical stats. Apparently this is now not ok:

GM Auchand's stance on this, from the discord on 6/28/20, 10:40PM:


For reference, LukeDuke's comment that Auchand responded to was just "I really don't like the idea of being able to choose your stats.". And hell, I'm personally ok with average members of one fantasy race in our game being dumber than members of another race because they're basically different species the way the game's lore is set up.


Another thing that bugged me when I went through the discord conversations on this:

From GM Kveta on 6/28/20 11:11PM:


From what I get out of these comments, these proposed changes are in response to current real life political matters and a desire to do something, send some sort of signal, perhaps of a virtuous kind, no matter whether it's appropriate or useful for either this game or the political situation going on IRL at all.

Corporations are basically forced to do this now, so I am not at all surprised that Simu is having to do this as well. Otherwise Simu will be seen as insensitive, non-caring, etc.

If they really are going to go down this route they have to change stat assignment. The HK logic example is a perfect indicator of racial bias.

[Gelston]

I mean, some species are smarter than others. The average human is smarter than the average dog.

I've never liked the term "Race" used for species like it is in this game. While not technically incorrect, people often think of races within a species, and not individual species.

[Fortybox]

So are we changing the policy in addressing hateful, harmful, insidious behavior made on LNet? You know, things that actually hurt and do damage to people rather than not-real races?

If this was your announcement? That you all were going to start removing folks and censoring folks who have, using forums such as Discord + LNet, done harm to people via campaigns of harrassment? I'd be applauding and nodding, about time.

Groups who have abused Feedback in order to stymie things they didnt like and shut down? Who have targetted specific people OOG in order to drive them away from events? Who have in these very forums told others they shouldn't be expressing their opinions because they disagree?

Applauding again.

These are things that actually make a difference. Policy, currently, forbids you from addressing hateful comments and harrassment occuring on other platforms. I hope this means that policy will be changing as well.

Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

But this sounds and seems and is coming out as exactly the wrong move, while actual problems are occuring right now on Lnet. Where, you know, ACTUAL PEOPLE rather than pretend characters are consistently hurt and harrassed and targetted.

This guy is a moron (FudgeHJ). Just thought I'd share as this is how ridiculous this is becoming.

Nobody forces people to be on third party apps. Ignore options are available. Everyone is in complete control of what they want to hear.

[Astray]

Policy, currently, forbids you from addressing hateful comments and harrassment occuring on other platforms.

This guy is retarded. Fuck giving Simu any type of foothold in managing Lich.

[Tgo01]

The GMs keep asking "How are these proposed changes political?"

Then there is this gem from a player:

I can't even express enough how this post is amazing. So well worded, so progressive. Thank you. I'm a white american, I stand with black lives matter, protests. I'm completely against racism, and have even pushed it in game. Thank you for taking a positive stand against a real problem, even through a game. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Gee I can't possibly imagine why people think these changes are political.

Although to be fair I can't be 100% sure if they are being sarcastic or serious.

Then there is this gem:

I also wanted to add my thanks and support to Wyrom and the staff for this announcement and for taking steps to help make changes for the better.

I love this game, and I love much of its community, but there is a decidedly toxic extreme to a corner of Gemstone's player base. Any trip to the Player's Corner forums will show an excess of insensitivity at best, to virulent racism and homophobia and other forms of hatred at worst. Every game has toxic extremes of the community, but in a small player base like GS these toxic extremes can have an outsized voice. It's gotten to the point that when I try to introduce Gemstone to new people, I have to also include warnings and caveats about the games player population as well.

I fully support any changes that make the game more inclusive and welcoming, and I appreciate the statement from the staff and the wish to evolve forward, and especially with things like combating bias and racism and dealing with it out in the open. The game may be a fantasy but the people behind the screens are real, and I think action statements like Wyrom's and the support of so many GMs we can all work together to make this game better for all.

That's right the "toxic" community of the PC where all of the racists and homophobes hang out. It's funny because time4fun is by far the biggest racist, sexist, bigoted person that still posts to the PC but something tells me she is safe here because she's on the side of changing all of this shit so therefore she's the good guy! This is all just sickening now. People openly virtue signaling to not be "one of the bad ones!"

[Elgrim]

I dont appreciate when anyone dunks their real life chocolate into my fantasy peanut putter. Its an escape from all the bullshit that is happening in the real world.

[Tgo01]

Here are some changes a player has requested:

Make Ta'Illistim more accepting of other races and/or give something more than "You can't do that" when trying to enter an inn.
Remove racial trading bonuses and deficits and tie it to citizenship instead
Allow all races access into buildings previously denied to them within the EN. No racial restrictions on entrance.
Lessen the “pure” elf only raffles, open to all elf types at a minimum. (The term pure elf implies all others are impure, which is derogatory.)
More inclusive storylines that drive the cities to become a better melting pot and emphasizes the pacts struck west, the embassy approval.
Reduction or outright removal of racial trading penalties within the EN.
Review NPC conduct messaging to remove derogatory language towards half elves, dark elves and others.
Remove racial restrictions from MHOs.
Give greater acceptance half-elven characters on both ends of the continent.

This is that can of worms people were talking about.

I guess terms like "pure" and "half-whatever-race-here" are also problematic. Now that Simu has shown they are open to being more "progressive" you can bet people are going to push for changes for all of their perceived microaggressions and shit like this will never stop.

I never thought in my life people would complain that Elanthia wasn't "inclusive" enough.

[Neveragain]

Things like combating bias and racism and dealing with it out in the open

Out in the open in a 30 year old fantasy based MUD that 99.99999% of the world has never heard of.