Official: Stun Maneuvers

[Donquix]

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemSto...Rogue/view/573

Stun Maneuvers, the Rogue Guild skill and Combat Maneuver List skill, have received a few updates. First, the difficulty modifier associated with each maneuver has been significantly reduced. There's still a minimum that will always apply, but it should be much easier to perform each maneuver going forward. Second, the 5% fumble has been replaced with an open roll, that should allow for higher skill to help mitigate bad luck and also offers the chance for good luck to perform an otherwise unlikely maneuver. Lastly, a small quality of life update is that you may now use 'GO (direction|portal)' while stunned to automatically attempt the stun maneuver if you have the STUNMAN AUTOMATIC setting enabled.

GameMaster Estild

[Fortybox]

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemSto...Rogue/view/573

Glad to see Estild taking credit for SpiffyJr work.

[Chainsaw Laserman]

Kind of like someone saying they've installed new windows for you when you're missing walls.

What a silly update, even wizards, clerics, and sorcerers have better status handling mechanics than rogues these days, not to mention paladins, bards, and warriors.

[Maerit]

Kind of like someone saying they've installed new windows for you when you're missing walls.

What a silly update, even wizards, clerics, and sorcerers have better status handling mechanics than rogues these days, not to mention paladins, bards, and warriors.

Say what now?

BTW - this is actually an excellent change IMO, and might make this a worthy maneuver for monks to train since they also have no way to break status.

[Methais]

Glad to see Estild taking credit for SpiffyJr work.

[Chainsaw Laserman]

Say what now?

BTW - this is actually an excellent change IMO, and might make this a worthy maneuver for monks to train since they also have no way to break status.

Cloak of Shadows and Pestilence are both far superior relative to stun mans.

[Maerit]

Cloak of Shadows and Pestilence are both far superior relative to stun mans.

Umm, this is not actually true. Firstly, the activation conditions on 712 are incredibly hard to achieve. You'll need to be stunned, disarmed or feinted to a higher stance, and knocked over for your DS to fall low enough as a sorcerer to take damage from a physical attack. Secondly, 712 isn't a guaranteed activation, it only has a % chance to activate. Thirdly, if you are using 712 to escape (which means you're using 130 as your retribution spell), you have a pretty good chance that you'll get murdered by the demon for using a non-aggressive spell. You can only use single-target spells for retribution, so it's not going to help you in a swarm (which is really the only time a sorcerer needs help).

716 also does not stop the majority of offenders from killing you since it only has a % chance to activate, and can only slow something down if they are actually vulnerable to stun.

Being able to stance and move while stunned is, in my opinion, much more useful than the 712 slot machine. Especially now that "the difficulty modifier associated with each maneuver has been significantly reduced", and the open roll is much less likely to cause a fumble.

Stunman is by no means the best ability out there, but sorcerers have started relying on things like Voln armor or the Berserk feature of nervestaves to survive being disabled. It's not the weapon swinging that's going to kill a sorcerer, it's the maneuvers.

[Chainsaw Laserman]

Umm, this is not actually true. Firstly, the activation conditions on 712 are incredibly hard to achieve. You'll need to be stunned, disarmed or feinted to a higher stance, and knocked over for your DS to fall low enough as a sorcerer to take damage from a physical attack. Secondly, 712 isn't a guaranteed activation, it only has a % chance to activate. Thirdly, if you are using 712 to escape (which means you're using 130 as your retribution spell), you have a pretty good chance that you'll get murdered by the demon for using a non-aggressive spell. You can only use single-target spells for retribution, so it's not going to help you in a swarm (which is really the only time a sorcerer needs help).

716 also does not stop the majority of offenders from killing you since it only has a % chance to activate, and can only slow something down if they are actually vulnerable to stun.

Being able to stance and move while stunned is, in my opinion, much more useful than the 712 slot machine. Especially now that "the difficulty modifier associated with each maneuver has been significantly reduced", and the open roll is much less likely to cause a fumble.

Stunman is by no means the best ability out there, but sorcerers have started relying on things like Voln armor or the Berserk feature of nervestaves to survive being disabled. It's not the weapon swinging that's going to kill a sorcerer, it's the maneuvers.

It is true, the sorcerer abilities work for a variety of status conditions (or lack thereof). Stuns are almost never the actual problem with surviving as a rogue, you get webbed, bound or something else magical first. Stunmans mean absolutely nothing for surviving as a rogue since they don't work when you are bound or in RT or anything that actually resulted in being stunned in the first place.

[Methais]

Umm, this is not actually true. Firstly, the activation conditions on 712 are incredibly hard to achieve. You'll need to be stunned, disarmed or feinted to a higher stance, and knocked over for your DS to fall low enough as a sorcerer to take damage from a physical attack. Secondly, 712 isn't a guaranteed activation, it only has a % chance to activate. Thirdly, if you are using 712 to escape (which means you're using 130 as your retribution spell), you have a pretty good chance that you'll get murdered by the demon for using a non-aggressive spell. You can only use single-target spells for retribution, so it's not going to help you in a swarm (which is really the only time a sorcerer needs help).

716 also does not stop the majority of offenders from killing you since it only has a % chance to activate, and can only slow something down if they are actually vulnerable to stun.

Being able to stance and move while stunned is, in my opinion, much more useful than the 712 slot machine. Especially now that "the difficulty modifier associated with each maneuver has been significantly reduced", and the open roll is much less likely to cause a fumble.

Stunman is by no means the best ability out there, but sorcerers have started relying on things like Voln armor or the Berserk feature of nervestaves to survive being disabled. It's not the weapon swinging that's going to kill a sorcerer, it's the maneuvers.

I don't know much about either of those spells beyond the minimum, but not having to grind it out in the guild for hundreds of hours automatically makes them better than stun maneuvers.

[Gelston]

I don't know much about either of those spells beyond the minimum, but not having to grind it out in the guild for hundreds of hours automatically makes them better than stun maneuvers.

You can buy them with cman points.