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Thread: Wizard Training Advice

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlin View Post
    +1 DS and TD from 430, +1 CS to MnE circle compared to 75/101/127.

    Lose 1 CS from 127 to 125, due to the CS contribution being at .5 over 120, but also lose 1 CS to other circles from the thresholds being *7 due to 10% of post 67 spell ranks for secondary circle CS.
    But then you hit the threshold for other CS contribution in MnE, gaining the +1 to Wiz/MjE, but +2 to MnE, and gain the benefit of 430 not being capped (maxes out at 100).

    Why you may not want to do this is scaling on 925/917. But, I'm not sure if we have a known impact on the effectiveness of those... and even if we did have an equation, would the +2 at over 120 materially impede their effectiveness.
    CRAP!!!! Here I thought I knew what my plan was and then in swoops Whirlin and MATH!!!! My capped pure is still a ways from having to worry about it, but from what you are suggesting Whirlin then it might be best to go 101/101/101 since it provides a pretty significant boost to TD, which my wizard at least always seems to struggle a little with.

  2. #22

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    My old capped mage had 101/101/101 and I liked it... but that was before updates to 917. 917 hits like a truck if you are over-trained in 900s, and between that and enchanting it seems like you might be lacking as a 101/101/101 build.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kutter View Post
    CRAP!!!! Here I thought I knew what my plan was and then in swoops Whirlin and MATH!!!! My capped pure is still a ways from having to worry about it, but from what you are suggesting Whirlin then it might be best to go 101/101/101 since it provides a pretty significant boost to TD, which my wizard at least always seems to struggle a little with.
    That's up to you. Training always has some subjectivity.

    However, the big reason it works out is that you're hitting a threshold of *7 in MnE, which makes up for the CS losses associated with WIZ, because your at 120+ ranks in WIZ. Since the CS contribution for 100-120 is .75, the tradeoff becomes more significant. So you will be giving up more potency as you approach 100 to hit the same TD gains. If you wanted to go for 101/121/81 or something, that would work too, just a few CS loss, but minimal TD gains.

    But wait... Why are we talking CS for Wiz circle?
    While 912, 917, 925 have benefits over 1x, I'm not aware of any post-100 scaling equations to use to determine it's post 100 effectiveness, so in absence of defined benefits, I leverage CS is a reasonable substitute. Given Simu leveraging things multiple times rather than always reinventing the wheel, it's not necessarily a bad assumption, but is an assumption nonetheless.
    Plus 915 is a fun disabler... hit with 917 915 519 to super disable a critter. Did that on some waves of Duskruin when there were high DS mobs.


    >forage for snapdragon stalk
    d100(Open): -251
    You stumble about in a fruitless attempt at foraging.

    1/6/2014: Setheve completes the promotion ritual and says, "Congratulations, Whirlin, for achieving Guild Master status! We trust you'll serve your guild well."
    1/11/2014: Grandmaster Alchemist
    1/14/2014: Capped, and got Loralaii killed by a GM.
    7/11/2016: Founded the Hand of the Arkati
    9/20/2016: T5 on my bow (Thanks to Isola)... Managed as far as T4 myself.

  4. Default

    77 MnE is just postcap training optimization. Its CS contribution to MjE is the main draw. Starting with a base training plan of 100MjE/75MnE/100Wiz to pick up all your bolting buffs and defensive benefits from Wiz is a solid start, then further optimize from there. Most wizards find that, after attending to some other goals, placing most of the remaining ranks in Wiz, primarily for 917 and 925, is the way to go.

    Personally, Ragz is 102MjE/78MnE/123Wiz because ranks 101 and 102 of MjE both award a MjE CS point. Rank 103 does not award any direct benefit. 77 MnE is the breakpoint for adding another CS point to MjE, and rank 78 MnE awards another DS/TD point. Rank 79 does not award any direct benefit. Everything else is in Wiz for 917/925.. rank 121 is also another MjE CS point

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragz View Post
    77 MnE is just postcap training optimization. Its CS contribution to MjE is the main draw. Starting with a base training plan of 100MjE/75MnE/100Wiz to pick up all your bolting buffs and defensive benefits from Wiz is a solid start, then further optimize from there. Most wizards find that, after attending to some other goals, placing most of the remaining ranks in Wiz, primarily for 917 and 925, is the way to go.

    Personally, Ragz is 102MjE/78MnE/123Wiz because ranks 101 and 102 of MjE both award a MjE CS point. Rank 103 does not award any direct benefit. 77 MnE is the breakpoint for adding another CS point to MjE, and rank 78 MnE awards another DS/TD point. Rank 79 does not award any direct benefit. Everything else is in Wiz for 917/925.. rank 121 is also another MjE CS point
    One thing to note about MjE CS is all it's really good for these days is Mana Leech, since Estild wrecked all our good spells and left our trash spells (514, etc.) in their ongoing trash state. I guess 502 if you're going for super mana efficiency, but that's not going to be an issue unless you're farming.

    And with Mana Leech, it doesn't really matter all that much how hard you ward the target, as it's still going to only cost 1 mana on a successful warding.

    In the end it won't really make a difference as assuming you're going with 75 MnE, then the other 2 would be either 101/127 or 127/101, which I doubt would have any major impact on 925 or 917.

    TLDR: Thanks Estild. Penishead.

    Last edited by Methais; 01-30-2020 at 11:12 AM.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragz View Post
    77 MnE is just postcap training optimization. Its CS contribution to MjE is the main draw. Starting with a base training plan of 100MjE/75MnE/100Wiz to pick up all your bolting buffs and defensive benefits from Wiz is a solid start, then further optimize from there. Most wizards find that, after attending to some other goals, placing most of the remaining ranks in Wiz, primarily for 917 and 925, is the way to go.

    Personally, Ragz is 102MjE/78MnE/123Wiz because ranks 101 and 102 of MjE both award a MjE CS point. Rank 103 does not award any direct benefit. 77 MnE is the breakpoint for adding another CS point to MjE, and rank 78 MnE awards another DS/TD point. Rank 79 does not award any direct benefit. Everything else is in Wiz for 917/925.. rank 121 is also another MjE CS point
    I went with 100MjE/75MnE/127Wiz just to eek out that little bit of extra enchanting power. It is really all negligible though. Its all just a difference of 1-2 CS and 1-2 DS. Since CS spells aren't really used all that much anymore I didn't care about my MjE CS. I use 917 more often so the extra enchanting power and 917 power was the way I went.
    No, I am not Drauz in game.

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    Yeah that’s true; it’s all just minor skill shifts optimizing in a particular direction. To me, the relatively minor gains are worth the relatively minor tradeoffs

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    @Methais I am, in fact, a wizard!

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragz View Post
    @Methais I am, in fact, a wizard!
    Discord: Methais#5420
    [Private]-GSIV:Nyatherra: "Until this moment i forgot that i changed your name to Biff Muffbanger on Lnet"
    Quote Originally Posted by Back
    I am a retard. I'm disabled. I'm poor. I'm black. I'm gay. I'm transgender. I'm a woman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Back View Post
    Remember, I'm a tiny dick pussy.



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