Something you’ll never forgive

[GSIV Rogue]

The warrior guild is fine, since most of their skills are actually quite useful to them.

Useful, yes (compared to rogues). Underpowered still, yes. They have to fight from the open as a square.

Actually, there is ONE rogue guild skill that has some potential, and that's subdue. Admittedly, if they weren't so stingy about reducing its RT more, making it cost less stamina, and making it so it works against undead, it could actually be pretty useful, since it works with silent strike. It's a good way to safely take out adds, or disable a potentially dangerous critter

I agree that this skill has potential. What sucks about it is that many creatures it works well on, usually you can just kill with an ambush. Creatures it would be great against like Vvrael or undead (as you pointed out) = either shake stuns or it doesn't work at all.

I can't see any real fix to rogue offensive cmans or offensive guild skills, without a complete revamp of how they work in rogue combat

This is correct.

a complete revamp of ambush.

Needs to happen anyway.

But whatever, Simu could give two craps about the guild, and would rather see it gone than try to fix it.

The reality is that they should have done away with the guild when they made GSIV and implemented the cman (or other) system to give rogues and warriors a real ability to deal with TD / swarms through training alone (not enhancives that require constant upkeep in yet another game system, or forced to buy special ensorcelled items). And no, I don't mean getting 20 mil + exp. in order to spell tank.

Add in some damage, i.e. give Sweep potential to break the target's leg or cause some other injury from them crashing to the ground, which can occasionally kill them if they landed on their head hard enough or something.

This would be useful for creatures that have: huge DS even with pushdown, shake stuns, and/or heavy armor.

That would probably be easy to add to it without having to revamp the whole system, which we know will never happen, so low hanging fruit is all that's left.

Yes. Probably still won't happen, though.

Some have asked for AoE skills, like AoE sweep, which could potentially make them valuable skills. But I personally would rather see something more like divert in reverse, which causes all but one critter to leave the room. I think that simply giving rogues AoE is not the answer for them. I'd rather see changes that double down on them being single target killers.

Give them this:




Buff hiding/ambush to where with enough training, critters won't be able to react to you for X amount of time after you jump out of hiding.

Or have it start with a base amount of like 1-2 critters and with higher training let it have the same effect on more critters that might be in the room. If someone is that good at hiding and assassin/stealth type kills, critters shouldn't be reacting (or sometimes even noticing that one of their pals is suddenly not there) right away when you're ambushing.

Or give ambush a chance to keep the rogue hidden or auto-hide right after, etc. If looting is an issue just let them loot from hiding because who would really give a shit?

Or give them some sort of AoE disabler that's actually reliable. Like a bag of Mr. Fuji salt to throw in everything's eyes. And call it Mr. Fuji salt in game for extra win.

Any of these would be good. @ Mr. Fuji

[Xred]

Is bolting really that bad for wizards? Reading Whirlins guide, he shows that at after cap you can’t really raise AS. When I see wizards hunting in otf, they seem quite effective. What am I missing?

[Murrandii]

Is bolting really that bad for wizards? Reading Whirlins guide, he shows that at after cap you can’t really raise AS. When I see wizards hunting in otf, they seem quite effective. What am I missing?

Whirlin compares apples with oranges

DISCLAIMER: NOT TALKING ABOUT OUTSIDE SK WHATEVER SPELLS OR SOCIETY OR RACIAL BONUS

Raw data wise, Mage can only

2x in spell aim.

MAXED AS gained from 425 = +50
AS gained from 513 = +63 or

That's + 113 from spells.

So, mage can only 2x from skills and get up to 1.13X from spells (that's 3.13X).

That's it.

Square can

2X from weapons
2X CMAN (weight 1x in total)
SURGE (+16)
Specialization (+10)
Get X from weapons (let's put +35 here)

Warrior can:
+20 from warcries
+10 from bounding

Rogue can lower DS with ambush

That's 3X from skills and .6X from manoeuvers and X from weapon 3.6X
Warrior are close to 4X.
Rogue AS vs DS probably get EVEN more difference (meaning more than 4X in comparaison).


The .5X difference between the 2 is 50 AS. That's huge BUT can easily be compensated with a formula benefiting BOLTING. Dunno if SIMU did it, though

p.s. Add semis, rangers or bards and you have the feeling: Man, in term of AS, mages are kinda the weakest!

[audioserf]

Raw AS doesn't really matter much outside of e-peen measuring contests, though. If I can bolt at 450 AS and kill stuff, do I care that a paladin is swinging at 600 AS and killing stuff? Not really. And bolting is 3 seconds soft RT (1 for mages), which is relevant too. I mean is it fun to hit your max AS at level 100 and never gain more again? Definitely not. But that doesn't make bolting or wizards bad.

[Murrandii]

That and the fact Steam has high DF is another thing.

I get Whirlin probably charted and made pivot tables and proved SIMU was completely in the left field with bolting AS.

That wouldn't surprised me at all.

Another point: Simu TRIED to release d125 staves. PARANOIAC MODE ON:

They know about it and they tried, AGAIN, to monetize a solution against a problem they designed or didn't bothered to solve with simple dev.

[Askip]

Truck stop casino business model.

515, 516, 517, 519 nerfs

Stealth nerfs in general

+1 on 517, they still owe me four deathstone earrings.

[Winter]

Is bolting really that bad for wizards?

It's mediocre if you're questing on your own. If wizards had a 16-20 mana cost (attunable) bolt which hits as hard as 317/312/719 it would alleviate my issues with bolting. Also I think rapid fire creates too much spam, I'd prefer if it double/tripled the mana cost of the bolt for double/tripled damage instead of lowering the cool down by 2/3s.

[Methais]

Is bolting really that bad for wizards? Reading Whirlins guide, he shows that at after cap you can’t really raise AS. When I see wizards hunting in otf, they seem quite effective. What am I missing?

I don't use enhancives and I have no issues bolting most things to death.

Bolting is good and terrible, like Randy Watson, at least at cap. It's really terrible if you don't have Rapid Fire with 0 cooldown (202 ranks EMC)....but barring that, bolting isn't bad, it's just extremely tedious and boring. Even moreso with most capped stuff not being crittable.

Imagine playing a sword/board non-ambushing build with a 3 second RT instead of 5, and that's about how fun and interesting bolting without Rapid Fire is.

[Mobius1]

First world problems.

[Methais]

Whirlin compares apples with oranges

DISCLAIMER: NOT TALKING ABOUT OUTSIDE SK WHATEVER SPELLS OR SOCIETY OR RACIAL BONUS

Raw data wise, Mage can only

2x in spell aim.

MAXED AS gained from 425 = +50
AS gained from 513 = +63 or

That's + 113 from spells.

So, mage can only 2x from skills and get up to 1.13X from spells (that's 3.13X).

That's it.

Square can

2X from weapons
2X CMAN (weight 1x in total)
SURGE (+16)
Specialization (+10)
Get X from weapons (let's put +35 here)

Warrior can:
+20 from warcries
+10 from bounding

Rogue can lower DS with ambush

That's 3X from skills and .6X from manoeuvers and X from weapon 3.6X
Warrior are close to 4X.
Rogue AS vs DS probably get EVEN more difference (meaning more than 4X in comparaison).


The .5X difference between the 2 is 50 AS. That's huge BUT can easily be compensated with a formula benefiting BOLTING. Dunno if SIMU did it, though

p.s. Add semis, rangers or bards and you have the feeling: Man, in term of AS, mages are kinda the weakest!

You're not taking into account the fact that bolt DS and physical DS are almost never the same.

There's no real way to raise AS at cap without enhancives, but there are plenty of ways to lower your target's defense. Which other classes have too of course, but a critter's bolt DS is usually significantly lower than its physical DS.

Or just say fuck all that bullshit and cast 917 or something.

My self cast bolt AS is 471 and I rarely have problems killing things. The problem is the lack of fun involved.

Unrelated:
Slow is an extremely underrated spell, especially if you have air lore for AoE Slow. It was on my "honorable mention" list on the podcast, but it was never brought up and I forgot about it until it was too late.