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Thread: Spell Research Goals - Interpreting the guide? Pitfalls?

  1. #1

    Default Spell Research Goals - Interpreting the guide? Pitfalls?

    Working on a pure wizard. Before I deviate from the guide too much, I want to be sure I know what choices I'm making.

    Minor question:

    "Major Elemental and Minor Elemental until Major Elemental 18" - I have to be honest, this doesn't make any sense to me and that worries me. 516(or 520) seems like a more obvious stopping points. What am I missing about 518? Similarly 414/420 seem to make sense as stopping points, but I don't see 418 as vital day to day at all.

    I know the guide isn't supposed to be a cut and paste follow, but I can't even figure out why these would be the suggestions and that makes me worry I'm missing something obvious before I deviate! Note: I've never used most of these spells in practice.

    Bigger question (I.E. If I get the order wrong who cares long term):

    Keep Major = Level, Try to get Minor Elemental = Level
    Any additional spell ranks go into wizard circle



    I'm really quite enamored with 917. My understanding is that to use it often and well, I'd need to aim for 1X Wizard. And that if I do that it's better to drop MnE than MjE due to the Mana Leech CS. But I'm not sure that I know what else I'll be missing out on if I swap MnE for Wiz.

    Thoughts?


    P.S. Final random question: My plan for lores is to hit 20 fire for steam, then 20 air for tonis and then back off of them entirely for awhile. I'm pretty confident that's viable, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyways.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. Default

    Your continued minor elemental is generally for 425 and 430, which grow in power with your ranks. That's the main reason you don't want to stop that. You can fall behind at points to get other spells early, sure. Just catch back up later. And yes, that lore plan is viable for a while, or really forever if you're determined enough. Frankly one or the other is fine for leveling for a good long while. You don't even really need both.

  3. Default

    Until level 19, you can migrate asap, so it's not of much consequences since you can move to get that spell and then go to that circle and so on.

    All and all, you want to enchant at level 925 because it means cash and or a better armor for yourself? (7x full leathers if you start from a 4x at level 25 is doable with the levels you'd gain here and there)

    So, IF YOU WANT TO ENCHANT ASAP: you want 1x in 900 and 1x in 500. Rest is 400 until 75-76. That path means you won't get 425 at level 25. You'll get it later. Consequences: you'll get 425-430 in your 30s. Easy hunting to get there, so I wouldn'T worry.

    Otherwise, go classy 1x 400 until 75-76, 1x 500 for life, rest in 900.

    At cap, normally you're:

    76-400
    100-900
    100-500

    rest either 500 or 900. Most go in 500 for mana leech. I did 900 for enchanting. It's totally a matter of what you want man. 917 post cap is a STRONG spell and you benefit from more ranks in 900. You don't need mana post cap, so mana leech CAN be overkill. It depends on what you want to do!

    You want 20 fire lore for steam. You want 100 combined fire and water to max DF damage for steam, rest is up to you.

    I did: (air with 535 and blurs and disk is great)

    Elemental Lore - Air...............| 160 60
    Elemental Lore - Earth.............| 142 42
    Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 150 50
    Elemental Lore - Water.............| 150 50
    Last edited by Murrandii; 09-05-2019 at 10:10 AM.
    Ardwen the submitive: [LNet]-GSIV:Ardwen: "not like I was given a choice to opt out of bro mode, bro"

  4. #4

    Default

    Thank you both! That is clarifying on a number of fronts and I feel like I see the big picture much better now.

    One subtext of both of your comments that I think I see, but wanted to double-check is this: From a hard numbers point of view, 917 isn't good enough/impacted enough by wizard ranks to be worth 1Xing at lower levels when compared with the losses in AS/DS from the MjE/MnE. Or at least not until around lvl 75 (by which point I'm sure I'll have more well developed opinions).

  5. Default

    Mana's really your hindrance early on for a spell like 917 (or any higher level spell). You just don't have enough of it to sustain any useful amount of casts for a while. To preface, I'm bad at wizarding, but to give you an idea, I used 502 well into my 30s (with others), even with minor steam available, because I hate wands and thinking and it didn't cost a lot of mana.
    Last edited by Stumplicker; 09-05-2019 at 11:17 AM.

  6. Default

    I throw this from a BIG general path:

    You steam for death until 20 (if you Don't 506 claidh)

    From 20-30, you 502-steam
    from 30-40. you 505-502,steam
    from 40-60, you 505, 516-502,steam
    from 60-70, you rapidfire and use the routine of 40-60
    from 70-100, you 917 (if you 1x 900), 502, 516, steam otherwise use before routine

    917 becomes your opener as it can kills, stun, make prone therefore making you protected in case of manoeuvers and so on. Since it's cycling, you have good chance of saving your life more than less.

    Before, it's overkills to use it unless you manually hunt and use it here and there.
    Ardwen the submitive: [LNet]-GSIV:Ardwen: "not like I was given a choice to opt out of bro mode, bro"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    146

    Default

    I only hunt with 917 and 502 with one of my wizards. I made the official switch over from bolting to 917/502 around level 27. His MjE was low (still is), but I had to sacrifice spell ranks somewhere at the time. Now that I've been slowly building it up it's much more useful for mana leech.

    I went with heavy air/water lore. Right now 59 Ware Lore ranks I have a 11.8% chance for each crit cycle of 917 ICE to trigger a second damage cycle.
    So if a creature lives through all 6 crit cycles, each cycle has that 11.8% chance to get a bonus damage cycle, so if extremely I could get all 6 cycles to have 2 damage cycles each. It can be powerfully devastating if that bonus crit cycle triggers on the first two cycles.

    I love having the use of 950 and blasting everything in the room with 1 cast of 917 (34 mana) and then 5 casts of 502 (20 mana). Almost all targets die from the initial cast and anything still alive the next one or two crit cycles of 917 finishes them off. Just let it be known that using 917 with 950, it will default to FIRE, regardless of your lore ranks or if you try to specify ICE. So if you plan on blasting everything in the room with 950 and you're using 917, everything will be hit with 917 FIRE. I've complained about it on the officials and asked if it can be fixed, but so far after months have passed, nothing has come from it. I should probably bring it up again....

    I kept up with ranks into Spell Aiming until level 58, even though since around level 30 I haven't actually used a bolt spell. I kept up with it just because it's a cheap ability to go towards magic ranks for runestaffs. I find better use of those few unspent TPs now and put them towards helping on building up my spells. Once I get MjE up to 550 I'll switch back to MnE so I can build up the added DS/TD benefit of 430.

    Here's his training at level 72:

    (at level 72), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
    Skill Name | Current Current
    | Bonus Ranks
    Armor Use..........................| 20 4
    Physical Fitness...................| 173 73
    Arcane Symbols.....................| 191 91
    Magic Item Use.....................| 191 91
    Spell Aiming.......................| 218 118
    Harness Power......................| 226 126
    Elemental Mana Control.............| 178 78
    Elemental Lore - Air...............| 189 89
    Elemental Lore - Water.............| 159 59
    Perception.........................| 140 40
    Climbing...........................| 144 44
    Swimming...........................| 128 34

    Spell Lists
    Major Elemental....................| 40

    Spell Lists
    Minor Elemental....................| 30

    Spell Lists
    Wizard.............................| 80
    Last edited by drumpel; 09-10-2019 at 09:44 AM.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Remo View Post
    Working on a pure wizard. Before I deviate from the guide too much, I want to be sure I know what choices I'm making.

    Minor question:

    "Major Elemental and Minor Elemental until Major Elemental 18" - I have to be honest, this doesn't make any sense to me and that worries me. 516(or 520) seems like a more obvious stopping points. What am I missing about 518? Similarly 414/420 seem to make sense as stopping points, but I don't see 418 as vital day to day at all.

    I know the guide isn't supposed to be a cut and paste follow, but I can't even figure out why these would be the suggestions and that makes me worry I'm missing something obvious before I deviate! Note: I've never used most of these spells in practice.

    Bigger question (I.E. If I get the order wrong who cares long term):

    Keep Major = Level, Try to get Minor Elemental = Level
    Any additional spell ranks go into wizard circle



    I'm really quite enamored with 917. My understanding is that to use it often and well, I'd need to aim for 1X Wizard. And that if I do that it's better to drop MnE than MjE due to the Mana Leech CS. But I'm not sure that I know what else I'll be missing out on if I swap MnE for Wiz.

    Thoughts?


    P.S. Final random question: My plan for lores is to hit 20 fire for steam, then 20 air for tonis and then back off of them entirely for awhile. I'm pretty confident that's viable, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyways.

    Thanks in advance!
    How to do your spells while leveling is more of a preference thing than anything, but at cap...

    Minor Elemental...75
    Major Elemental...127
    Wizard Base.......101

    My 917 does fine and MjE CS is 13 points short of max, which I pretty much never notice.
    Last edited by Methais; 09-10-2019 at 10:01 AM.
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  9. #9

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    Just let it be known that using 917 with 950, it will default to FIRE, regardless of your lore ranks or if you try to specify ICE.
    You might have something setup wrong somewhere. My 950 macro 100% uses the ice version of 917:
    You struggle to recall the correct way to prepare the Core Tap spell, but manage to stammer out something passable...
    Your spell is ready.
    You gesture.
    Tapping into the elemental core of Elanthia, you seize part of its energy. Swirling ribbons of fiery red, deep blue, earthen brown, and airy white energy rise up from the floor and surround you. They linger for a brief moment, then explode into a shower of sparks!

    You struggle to recall the correct way to prepare the Earthen Fury spell, but manage to stammer out something passable...
    You gesture at a bloodthirsty Silent Investor marauder.
    The ground beneath a bloodthirsty Silent Investor marauder rumbles with renewed vigor!
    Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath a bloodthirsty Silent Investor marauder!
    [SMR result: 103 (Open d100: 13, Bonus: 28)]
    ... 15 points of damage!
    Minor puncture to the back.
    Glacial stalagmites erupt from the ground, impaling her!
    ... 20 points of damage!
    Strike pierces upper arm!

    I'm glad to see the 917 love in this thread. I've been using it since the change and it's basically easy mode hunting. Opening with 410 into a room filled with critters not only gives you CC but critters hit by 410 also get a penalty applied to their defense of 917.
    Mana can still be a huge issue at cap/early post cap with essence generation so having a strong 516 helps you sustain your damage output over a long period of time.
    Last edited by AnOrdim; 09-10-2019 at 10:28 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    146

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AnOrdim View Post
    You might have something setup wrong somewhere. My 950 macro 100% uses the ice version of 917:



    I'm glad to see the 917 love in this thread. I've been using it since the change and it's basically easy mode hunting. Opening with 410 into a room filled with critters not only gives you CC but critters hit by 410 also get a penalty applied to their defense of 917.
    Mana can still be a huge issue at cap/early post cap with essence generation so having a strong 516 helps you sustain your damage output over a long period of time.
    I haven't had to make use of 950 for a while, I generally only cast it if I encounter 4+ targets. 3 or less I just callwind and while they're all pinned just toss an individual cast of 917 at them all.

    Last use of 950 with 917 kicked out fire for me. My wizard is attuned to AIR. Are you by chance attuned to ICE/WATER? If so, that may be why it utilizes water.

    For me, I can't get 950 to work with ICE. It always defaults to FIRE, but as I said, it's been a while since I last used 950 with 917 - perhaps they fixed it?

    For a single target I will INCANT 917 ICE - casts ice every time.
    For using 950 I've tired INCANT 950 917 ICE 502 502 502 502 502 - always defaulted to fire
    I've tried INCANT 950 917 ICE - just to see if it used ice, but always resulted in fire.

    I'll have to try again some time just to see the results I get.

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