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Thread: Level 80 Rogue - Back After 18 Years - Lockpicking / Scripting / Leveling Advice

  1. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius1 View Post
    I'll tell you, Plane 5 is much more deadly to me than Plane 4 is. Crawler burrow is the only real threat of death, which is easily negated by getting slash fittings from a warrior. The implosion is NOT so easily avoided even at cap, and is actually the only reason I have died hunting the rift in the last month or two - just walking THROUGH Plane 5 to get out of the rift, is one of the most deadly things I do there. Just ask Methais if you want to know how lethal the implosion there can be!

    Not only that, but there are two other issues with hunting Plane 5. First, obviously the XP is terrible and it will take you forever to fry. Second, you will not be able to get bounties there, which will even further hamper your XP gain, and badge progression.

    I'm all for under hunting, but Plane 4 is safer than Plane 5, at least if you are prepared.

    Honestly, with the way you are planning to hunt/train, Nelemar may be the better choice for you than the rift.

    Now, as for perception - I don't think anyone will try to argue that it's some amazingly important skill. But it's a very cheap skill. The cheapest skill in the game! It's so cheap, that it's worth at least going 2x, IMO.

    As for perception's effect on stance pushdown - I would not say it's effect is negligible. I would say its effect is completely non-existent! But as for maneuvers, that is a whole different matter!

    I actually plan to do some very extensive testing with SMR2, in the coming months, and one of those things will be to measure the impact of skills. But regardless of what that testing might discover, I can still tell you this: Being in full plate is already going to largely impact your ability to dodge maneuvers. Sure, being 2x or 3x perception isn't going to magically make it possible to dodge maneuvers, but every +++ you can throw into it, adds up. Midgar, for example, can only be hit by SMR2 if it's an open roll (Granted, his entire enhancive set is based around maneuver defense ).

    Much like DS, or TD, or anything else - the bonus may not be huge, but it adds up. And unlike DS/TD, there are far fewer ways to increase your maneuver defense. Also, who knows what else perception does, that we don't even know about?

    In the end, I see where your reasoning is coming from, but I guess I can't agree with dumping perception. Clearly maneuver defense is important to me - I see it as one of those things that is most difficult to overcome, unlike DS/TD which has many ways to overcome. It's also one of the few places a rogue has a leg up defensively, so why not take advantage?

    As for full plate armor - I think it's a great thing and a solid plan for any rogue to wear, especially pre and early post-cap. But I'm personally more of an advocate of MBP, since you get most of the benefits of full plate, with far fewer of the negatives.

    We don't know exactly what the impact of full plate -AP is on maneuvers, but we do know by something a GM said, that it's equivalent to a little more than 100 PF ranks.

    And I wouldn't worry too much about redux. Reaching 45% is pretty easy to do, but if you max out almost every physical skill, you will barely break 50%. I'm talking like 7+ mil XP worth of physical skills, to get a measly 3-5%. I'd worry more about DS, TD, maneuver defense, and your ability to kill more quickly/safely (3x hiding, for example), and the redux will just come naturally while trying to maximize those four things.
    Plane 5 being deadlier than Plane 4 is an opinion. Getting killed from implosion is still possible at any level - and there are too many variables to consider which may be affecting it to debate the point. It is an undeniable fact, however, that caster level vs. target level is an important factor when considering ability to defend against implosion.

    @Adv. Guild - I don't do bounties at all so for me that becomes a non-issue. I am not interested in taking the risks or inconveniences associated with certain tasks. I have no issues gaining exp. or wealth without the adv. guild.

    @Nelemar becomes a better choice at some point, then to Nelemar I shall go - nothing is set in stone.

    @Perception / Full Plate - These are a personal preference. At this time, I see no reason to change what is working.

    @Redux - According to CalcRedux Scintillion is already over 50% redux at level 81. Thus far DS, TD, and maneuver defense are non-issues. Level 100 is level 100. Game over, you win.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by audioserf View Post
    Can you even kill crusaders as a melee user without big focused mstrikes? They heal themselves incredibly quickly and are non-corp.
    I wasn't 100% sure on that so I didn't want to spread misinformation, as my experience is with a shit ton of mstriking and rapid fire.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by GSIV Rogue View Post
    Plane 5 being deadlier than Plane 4 is an opinion. Getting killed from implosion is still possible at any level - and there are too many variables to consider which may be affecting it to debate the point. It is an undeniable fact, however, that caster level vs. target level is an important factor when considering ability to defend against implosion.
    Well, this is coming from a 100% physical rogue who has been hunting the rift for years. Take it as you care to take it.

    @Adv. Guild - I don't do bounties at all so for me that becomes a non-issue. I am not interested in taking the risks or inconveniences associated with certain tasks. I have no issues gaining exp. or wealth without the adv. guild.
    To each their own, I guess. Plane 5 is good for drops and for fame (Which is why Methais hunts it. He is going for fame.). But if you care about XP and character progression, skipping out on the advguild is a huge mistake. It's a mistake I personally made for years, and now regret it.

    Just to be sure, since you have been gone so long - Do you know about mind saturation? In case you don't, I should probably explain. Normally when you are fried, that's it - you can't hold more XP. But if you turn in a bounty when you are fried, it will saturate your mind, and add that XP to your mind pool (800 or 1000 XP depending on the bounty.), up to 1000 over your usual limit. This is essentially free XP, minus the little extra time it might take you to complete the bounty over hunting just to fry (which is generally not much extra time, if any.), and also gets you tons of extra XP per pulse, since it's based on the current XP in your bucket.

    And of course, the advguild badge is wicked awesome, with potentially +10 to three different stats or skills.

    And if you feel like saving gems (I do. It's worth it.), the gem bounties are as free as XP gets.

    And I don't know how that redux calc is calculating, but the script most people go by is ;redux.
    Last edited by Mobius1; 08-13-2019 at 12:19 PM.

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius1 View Post
    Well, this is coming from a 100% physical rogue who has been hunting the rift for years. Take it as you care to take it.



    To each their own, I guess. Plane 5 is good for drops and for fame (Which is why Methais hunts it. He is going for fame.). But if you care about XP and character progression, skipping out on the advguild is a huge mistake. It's a mistake I personally made for years, and now regret it.

    Just to be sure, since you have been gone so long - Do you know about mind saturation? In case you don't, I should probably explain. Normally when you are fried, that's it - you can't hold more XP. But if you turn in a bounty when you are fried, it will saturate your mind, and add that XP to your mind pool (800 or 1000 XP depending on the bounty.), up to 1000 over your usual limit. This is essentially free XP, minus the little extra time it might take you to complete the bounty over hunting just to fry (which is generally not much extra time, if any.), and also gets you tons of extra XP per pulse, since it's based on the current XP in your bucket.

    And of course, the advguild badge is wicked awesome, with potentially +10 to three different stats or skills.

    And if you feel like saving gems (I do. It's worth it.), the gem bounties are as free as XP gets.

    And I don't know how that redux calc is calculating, but the script most people go by is ;redux.
    I hunted the rift with Scintillion for 20+ levels in 2001 and he has always been a redux rogue. I know there have been many changes which is why I'm always interested in others opinions. Ultimately, I go with what works best for me.

    I'm aware of how mind saturation and bounties work. I haven't been completely inactive in GS since 2001. The character Scintillion and the associated account have simply been unused since that time. So far, my training path works very well. I'll make adjustments as I see fit. Incidentally, mind saturation has always been possible.

    Overall, I am not as concerned with exp. and character progression as I once was. From my experience GS tends to get boring once you reach level 100.

    I'll give ;redux a try and see what it says his redux is.

  5. #25

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    Overall, I am not as concerned with exp. and character progression as I once was. From my experience GS tends to get boring once you reach level 100.
    Well, lots of us find 100 to be the true beginning of Gemstone, myself included. But I know others who share your view, in that regard.

    I personally feel that post cap is when I can finally be more free with my training, and train in ways I WANT to, and not so much how I NEED to.

    But anyways, your current build is solid and will get you through the rift well enough. But you won't be able to hunt with any spells if you decide to go somewhere else, since you have no AS/MIU, etc., for spellburst. Hunting spelless becomes more and more of a nightmare as you close in on 90, all the way through cap. Those environs in the rift can be brutal, especially at 2x hiding.

    If you can afford it, I'd definitely try to get your armor and shield ensorcelled. That's an extra -20 CvA, which will help immensely.

    Personally, I like to underhunt when I feel it is the most efficient route. If hunting more difficult critters results in me dying more, and ultimately slows my progression, then I will underhunt instead of facing the more challenging area. I always assumed this was the reason why anyone else underhunts, as well? But if you don't care to do bounties, then it seems like efficiency isn't what matters to you. I guess I'm confused with your viewpoint.

    Granted, I will say again, that Plane 5 is far more dangerous than Plane 4. It doesn't matter if it's an "indisputable fact" that them being lower level makes it less likely for implode to land. If the difference is it going from a 150% chance of hitting to a 100% chance of hitting - you still will get hit 100% of the time! Not only that, but them being level 93, and Lost souls being 91, means you are going to take a loooooooong time to fry. Whereas on Plane 4, you will be killing level 100-103 critters, which means you will fry very quickly, thus exposing yourself to danger for much less time. On top of that, you can turn in bounties, which means getting exposed to danger even LESS.

    So my main question is, what is the point of you underhunting, if the intention is not for it to be more efficient? If efficiency IS actually important to you, then you really SHOULD be doing bounties. Also, technically speaking, Plane 4 is underhunting, compared to the Scatter
    Last edited by Mobius1; 08-13-2019 at 05:48 PM.

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius1 View Post
    Well, lots of us find 100 to be the true beginning of Gemstone, myself included. But I know others who share your view, in that regard.

    I personally feel that post cap is when I can finally be more free with my training, and train in ways I WANT to, and not so much how I NEED to.

    But anyways, your current build is solid and will get you through the rift well enough. But you won't be able to hunt with any spells if you decide to go somewhere else, since you have no AS/MIU, etc., for spellburst. Hunting spelless becomes more and more of a nightmare as you close in on 90, all the way through cap. Those environs in the rift can be brutal, especially at 2x hiding.

    If you can afford it, I'd definitely try to get your armor and shield ensorcelled. That's an extra -20 CvA, which will help immensely.

    Personally, I like to underhunt when I feel it is the most efficient route. If hunting more difficult critters results in me dying more, and ultimately slows my progression, then I will underhunt instead of facing the more challenging area. I always assumed this was the reason why anyone else underhunts, as well? But if you don't care to do bounties, then it seems like efficiency isn't what matters to you. I guess I'm confused with your viewpoint.

    Granted, I will say again, that Plane 5 is far more dangerous than Plane 4. It doesn't matter if it's an "indisputable fact" that them being lower level makes it less likely for implode to land. If the difference is it going from a 150% chance of hitting to a 100% chance of hitting - you still will get hit 100% of the time! Not only that, but them being level 93, and Lost souls being 91, means you are going to take a loooooooong time to fry. Whereas on Plane 4, you will be killing level 100-103 critters, which means you will fry very quickly, thus exposing yourself to danger for much less time. On top of that, you can turn in bounties, which means getting exposed to danger even LESS.

    So my main question is, what is the point of you underhunting, if the intention is not for it to be more efficient? If efficiency IS actually important to you, then you really SHOULD be doing bounties. Also, technically speaking, Plane 4 is underhunting, compared to the Scatter
    To answer your main question - the point of me underhunting is to minimize the chance of death. I've found that doing the tasks associated with bounties at times to greatly increase this risk. I also enjoy being able to hunt what and where I want without worrying about fulfilling or failing bounties - a personal preference.

    I am happy with my character progression, and ability to gain exp. and loot. I am able to hunt and gain exp. using only basic 4x gear, CoL signs, and CMAN abilities - without dying very often. I have no plans on doing otherwise at this time. If it isn't broken, I don't fix it.

    @Focus Implosion from GS wiki:

    The most commonly used version, though heavily weighted so that its proficiency isn't seen until around level 40. The damage done is based on caster level vs. target level, Sorcerer Base ranks, and Spell Aiming ranks.

    BTW - ;redux results here:

    >;redux
    --- Lich: redux active.
    [redux: Level: 81]
    [redux: Primary skills: 166]
    [redux: Secondary skils: 721]
    [redux: Tertiary skills: 166]
    [redux: Redux points: 5042.0]
    [redux: Your Redux estimates to be 42.25%.]
    --- Lich: redux has exited.

    These results are a lot different than ;calcredux which calculates your redux based on results from you actually taking hits, and what type of armor you are wearing.

    With ;calcredux his redux is calculated between 50-65%.

    In either case, his redux at this time is quite good.

    Thanks again for your help.
    Last edited by GSIV Rogue; 08-13-2019 at 06:19 PM.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by GSIV Rogue View Post
    To answer your main question - the point of me underhunting is to minimize the chance of death. I've found that doing the tasks associated with bounties at times to greatly increase this risk. I also enjoy being able to hunt what and where I want without worrying about fulfilling or failing bounties - a personal preference.
    This was partly why I didn't mess with them for some time. Also because I felt comfortable with my way of doing things, and didn't want to change. But once I gave them a real chance, I realized how big of a mistake it was to ignore them. At worst, I can just ask for a new bounty and come back again in 15 minutes (and go get fried if my mind is clear.).

    Do you know about "ASK TASKMASTER ABOUT EASIER?" That will also help a great deal, with getting the bounties you want. At your level, you should only be being sent to the rift, so it makes getting the bounties you want much easier. Even if you STILL get a bounty on a different Plane than you want, just skip it and try again in 15.

    @Focus Implosion from GS wiki:
    Two different people told you it almost always lands. I assure you that Implosion is so stupidly overpowered, that it will still have no issues tearing you to pieces at level 100.

    But anyways, I guess it's pointless to discuss it when you are not even able to hunt there yet, let alone choose Plane 4 as an alternative. You'll eventually see for yourself.

    But I definitely think you should reconsider doing bounties!

  8. Default

    I am completely aware of how the adv. guild works but I appreciate the clarification.

    At this point I am most interested in Scintillion reaching level 100 with his current setup - without upgrading gear, no outside spells, no MA'ing, and without spending $1 real life to do so (Only plan to play Scintillion during free promotional periods moving forward).

    PS: Here is a shot to show redux with ;calcredux

    A raving lunatic swings a twisted kris at you!
    AS: +379 vs DS: +298 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +61 = +149
    ... and hits for 3 points of damage!
    Tap to the arm pricks some interest but not much else.
    >
    [calcredux: Instance redux is 51.020%]
    [calcredux: Average redux is 57.585%]

    4x plain full plate
    Last edited by GSIV Rogue; 08-14-2019 at 12:58 AM.

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