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Thread: Ranged or UAC?

  1. #1

    Default Ranged or UAC?

    I recently just purchased a capped rogue, and both UAC and Ranged are capped. I could keep both, as I don't really NEED the points, but it would be nice to 3x Hiding or maybe even 2.5x picking and disarming to help with the harder boxes. I just can't ever see myself using both unless it's super situational, but I'm comfortable using either. Just thought I'd get someone wiser to help.

  2. #2

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    Flip a coin and let chance decide.

  3. Default

    They're both super viable at cap, but yeah, oof. Get rid of one and finish your secondary skills for sure. Don't neglect trading either if you're sitting on 0 or 24 ranks. 102 ranks is usually a happy medium* (do the math for your specific character to be sure you hit the even 10% mark). Also skinning! One hit kills make awful nice skins! That's one of the main drawbacks of monk. Even with maxed out skinning skills, when you punch something 700 times to kill it, it might tenderize the meat but it ruins the skins.

    If what you hunt you don't have trouble reaching a vital area to death crit first shot, UAC is probably more efficient. If what you hunt is too tall to kill in one hit and you've got to leg it first, archery is probably more efficient (but requires more setup and preparation).
    Last edited by Stumplicker; 07-09-2019 at 10:23 AM.

  4. #4

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    I guess the question is whether you prefer a min-max approach to this question, or a if you're interested in having the character designed around a playstyle that suits your character's personality.

    Sniper pros:
    - 1-shot kill is easily achievable
    - No height concerns, every critter's head/eyes are reachable with a ranged weapon
    - Fairly high DS
    - Fairly low RTs
    - Fairly cheap TPs for training
    - Easy to achieve max 10x AS bonus, and benefits from a crafting skill (fletching)

    Brawling pros:
    - Easily 1-shot targets when the head can be reached from hiding
    - More versatile in a swarm if you can afford to train mstrike
    - If you go weaponless UAC, you are immune to weapon disarm and similar abilities (i.e. SoS snake, OTF and Nelemar disarm, weapon fire...)
    ... of course this is mitigated to some extent by being hidden.
    - UAC bypasses EBP completely, and ambushing can boost your tier considerably
    - No arrow management (which is a big deal for a lot of people)

    If you have a short race master fletcher and only care about min-maxing, then probably ranged. If you have a strong or agile race that can hit most targets in the head, then you will have no UAC handicap and it just becomes whether you feel like managing arrows or not.

  5. #5

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    I'd keep both but if you really want to, I'd recommend UAC. It's fun and the 'recent' changes make ambushing fun. Plus the associated titles are great.

  6. #6

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    First of all, if you want to use archery, you can drop the hiding skill. I'm personally not a fan of sniper builds.

    Second, I don't know what UAC others are using, but I sure don't easily 1-shot targets. Even with high UAF and HCW gloves, it usually takes me 2 ambushes to kill.

    I'd recommend you choose based solely on RP reasons. Choosing a weapon based purely on mechanics is lame.

    Both weapon types are fantastic, though if done right, archery is stronger, but you have to deal with ammo management.
    Last edited by Mobius1; 07-09-2019 at 11:10 AM.

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius1 View Post
    First of all, if you want to use archery, you can drop the hiding skill. I'm personally not a fan of sniper builds.

    Second, I don't know what UAC others are using, but I sure don't easily 1-shot targets. Even with high UAF and HCP gloves, it usually takes me 2 ambushes to kill.

    I'd recommend you choose based solely on RP reasons. Choosing a weapon based purely on mechanics is lame.

    Both weapon types are fantastic, though if done right, archery is stronger.
    As an aside, your problem with UAC is likely that you aren't using the right skill for the body part you can hit on the first shot. If you can hit the head, punch. A rank 8 critical will kill. If you can't reach the head, I assume you're either punching the abdomen or legging it and then hitting the head. Try kicking to the abdomen if you can't reach the head without the critter on the ground. Kick to the abdomen is a rank 8 kill while punch is a rank 9 below the neck. Grapple is never the best option for a death crit. You don't get the higher base rank at only good positioning, so that extra one can make a difference. And of course, in the event that you don't have them...get the masteries. Not a guaranteed one shot kill every time, but those things certainly help improve your odds.

    Edit to add: As evidence, I present this video documentation of how burghal gnome monks UAC.

    Last edited by Stumplicker; 07-09-2019 at 11:26 AM.

  8. #8

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    I know how UAC works quite intimately. I'm one of the few people that didn't have to fixskill into brawling when UAC came out.

    With HCW gloves, I maybe kill on the first hit 30-50% of the time. This is punching the head, of course. In fact, I got the crit weighting solely because I was unhappy with my first hit kill performance.

    But I can't speak for stuff lower than cap (But the OP is capped.).

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius1 View Post
    I know how UAC works quite intimately. I'm one of the few people that didn't have to fixskill into brawling when UAC came out.

    With HCW gloves, I maybe kill on the first hit 30-50% of the time. This is punching the head, of course. In fact, I got the crit weighting solely because I was unhappy with my first hit kill performance.

    But I can't speak for stuff lower than cap (But the OP is capped.).
    Ah. Well in that case I recommend be a monk and get a whole other tier! Crit weighting is a waste because you just have to tap something ever so lightly in the right spot if it's still alive after your opening mstrike, which it isn't usually.

  10. #10

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    Don't get me wrong. UAC is great!

    But I actually kill things faster doing regular ambushes with brawling weapons, unless they are in chain or plate. You can even Whirling Dervish ambush.

    The reason why I personally prefer UAC to regular ambush, is it is great vs heavy armor and crit padding, and let's me get more benefit from my Agi enhancives, which I have +40. To do better with regular ambush requires getting enough AS to pass certain thresholds, whereas with UAC they are done in two punches (sometimes 1) even if you have crummy +UAF/MM (Not that I do, but I did drop most my +STR because of it.).

    Another thing to consider, if you choose UAC, is that Predator's Eye works with punch. UAC can miss the aimed target just like a regular attack can.

    Admittedly, you could push your 1 shot killability higher by getting +40 Agi, +40 Str, +50 Brawling, +50 CM, MCW, etc.. I haven't taken it that far, because I have other enhancive priorities. But that kind of setup is far from average, anyways.

    EDIT: As an example, I just went 40% 1 hit kills on my last hunt, killing Cerebralites (brig). I also had 1 failed tier up, and 2 misses on my second attack (so it took 3 hits to kill.).

    Also, I forgot to add another reason I like UAC - I can kill non-corp stuff with Voln Smite.
    Last edited by Mobius1; 07-09-2019 at 12:29 PM.

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