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Thread: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill To Ban Loot Boxes And Pay-To-Win Microtransactions

  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taernath View Post
    Among other things, the odds change the more balls are removed from those machines, while they remain the same in casinos/digital goods. There's also no real significant gain or loss for a cheap plastic toy that costs 25c, this isn't Shenmue.
    Other than the DR when the thing gets more empty (which I don't recall ever actually seeing, maybe they usually keep them topped off or something), the concept and the way it works is no different though. You put money in and have a tiny chance of getting the item you're hoping for. It's the same thing just on a smaller scale. If loot boxes are gambling, how is this not considered gambling?

    If loot boxes only costs 25 cents per box, do you think people would still be bitching?

    the odds change the more balls are removed from those machines, while they remain the same in casinos/digital goods
    Unless you're playing Blackjack and can count cards.
    Last edited by Methais; 05-13-2019 at 12:23 PM.
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  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Methais View Post
    The concept and the way it works is no different though. You put money in and have a tiny chance of getting the item you're hoping for. It's the same thing just on a smaller scale. If loot boxes are gambling, how is this not considered gambling?

    If loot boxes only costs 25 cents per box, do you think people would still be bitching?
    The answer, as with all things, is money. There are significant secondary markets for gambling in games. You might be familiar with the one in the game we play as being worth hundreds of thousands of dollars yearly in a very tiny game. That's only tangentially related to the gambling that goes on here, but how many skin selling sites are there for CS:Go alone? 50? 100? How many were outed in that giant scandal because there wasn't any oversight to the system? 20 or 25, something like that?

    If you're not familiar, some twitch streamers were outed as faking monumental odds and wins on a set of CS:Go sites while also secretly being the owners of said sites. A quick google search mentions that the top CS:Go skins go for around $1500. Couple that with the hundreds of thousands of people still inexplicably playing Counterstrike in 2019, and you have the potential for abuse that logically requires oversight. The same goes for e-sports teams getting banned for throwing matches or betting against themselves, or both.

    Where there's a lot of money, there are a lot of assholes, and oversight needs to be put in place in the form of regulation. That's how it works for every industry.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methais View Post
    The concept and the way it works is no different though. You put money in and have a tiny chance of getting the item you're hoping for. It's the same thing just on a smaller scale. If loot boxes are gambling, how is this not considered gambling?

    If loot boxes only costs 25 cents per box, do you think people would still be bitching?
    Only on an extremely reductionist level are gumball machines similar to "gambling", as I mentioned earlier. I don't think there are too many Ryos spending all their allowance money on gacha games (unless it's for an achievement). Reductionist arguments tend to lose sight of the bigger picture.
    Last edited by Taernath; 05-13-2019 at 12:53 PM.
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    Just for fun, here's an example from War Thunder of the typical 'weighting' a loot box has.

    Their loot boxes cost ~$2 (obfuscated through use of premium currencies). You have a chance of winning:

    - Random wager (useless)
    - 120k main currency (literally costs the same as if you had just bought it straight out)
    - three days of premium account (dubious value)
    - 300 premium currency (cost of the lootbox - a "try again" prize)
    - premium vehicle

    The premium vehicles are the only reason to buy these things. Luckily, the community determined long ago that the chances of getting one are so small (under ~1%) that the loot boxes are effectively useless. People still buy them though. So 2$ for an under 1% chance of getting anything of value.

    Meanwhile, the gumball machines, assuming a perfect mathematical system (which it isn't), you've got like a 20% chance to get the color you want for 25c.

    Is it gambling? Sure. But one is far more predatory.
    Last edited by Taernath; 05-13-2019 at 12:52 PM.
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  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taernath View Post
    Is it gambling? Sure. But one is far more predatory.
    Fair enough. But if we're just talking about its impact on kids, which is how the whole regulation thing is being pitched, shouldn't the parents be the ones doing the regulating?

    If there's some huge epidemic of a bunch of adults like Beldannon throwing all their money away on loot boxes nonstop because they have no self control, that would be a different conversation. But as far as the "gambling" impact on kids, that regulation should be coming from their parents instead of the government.

    I just have a problem with most "It's for the kids" arguments when they try to skip right over the part where the parents should be involved in what their kid's doing and instead run straight to the government telling them to pass laws in place of actual parenting that would have the same end result, but without opening the door for the government to slowly creep.
    Last edited by Methais; 05-13-2019 at 12:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Androidpk View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methais View Post
    Fair enough. But if we're just talking about its impact on kids, which is how the whole regulation thing is being pitched, shouldn't the parents be the ones doing the regulating?

    If there's some huge epidemic of a bunch of adults like Beldannon throwing all their money away on loot boxes nonstop because they have no self control, that would be a different conversation. But as far as the "gambling" impact on kids, that regulation should be coming from their parents instead of the government.

    I just have a problem with most "It's for the kids" arguments when they try to skip right over the part where the parents should be involved in what their kid's doing and instead run straight to the government telling them to pass laws in place of actual parenting that would have the same end result, but without opening the door for the government to slowly creep.
    For the record I'm not laser focused on the kids part of the bill, that's just how Republican lawmakers tend to promote their stuff.

    I agree that parents should be involved in their kids' lives, but it's getting harder and harder to do that when Teen-rated games (like War Thunder and many others) can introduce capital g Gambling that is otherwise restricted to 18+ in real life.
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  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taernath View Post
    For the record I'm not laser focused on the kids part of the bill, that's just how Republican lawmakers tend to promote their stuff.

    I agree that parents should be involved in their kids' lives, but it's getting harder and harder to do that when Teen-rated games (like War Thunder and many others) can introduce capital g Gambling that is otherwise restricted to 18+ in real life.
    Whatever ends up happening, I think there's a pretty good chance the industry will regulate itself before the government gets involved like they did with ESRB ratings.

    I don't mind it being regulated with stuff like showing odds of each item or whatever, I'd just rather see it come from the industry itself instead of the government.
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  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taernath View Post
    For the record I'm not laser focused on the kids part of the bill, that's just how Republican lawmakers tend to promote their stuff.

    I agree that parents should be involved in their kids' lives, but it's getting harder and harder to do that when Teen-rated games (like War Thunder and many others) can introduce capital g Gambling that is otherwise restricted to 18+ in real life.
    Where are they getting the money though? From their parents probably. Their parents should shut it down, not the Government. Or, if their parents are alright with it, they are alright with it.

    Eitherway, I think loot boxes are gay as fuck and I'd like them to disappear, but not like this.
    Last edited by Gelston; 05-13-2019 at 01:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelston View Post
    Eitherway, I think loot boxes are gay as fuck and I'd like them to disappear, but not like this.
    Video games are an 18 billion dollar per year industry. I have doubts that you could get 100 people together to try to get Simutronics to cut back on their own microtransactions or even state their odds. How would you expect it to happen any other way than by regulation on an enormously bigger scale?

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelston View Post
    Where are they getting the money though? From their parents probably. Their parents should shut it down, not the Government. Or, if their parents are alright with it, they are alright with it.

    Eitherway, I think loot boxes are gay as fuck and I'd like them to disappear, but not like this.
    Parents aren't able to supervise a kid 24/7, you can't chain them up in your yard anymore like in the '80s. Lots of kids have jobs, they can earn/be gifted money but not necessarily have a solid understanding of it. Capital g Gambling under 18 is also illegal, whether or not a parent personally agrees with it.

    I don't think Taernath jr. will be allowed to visit you anymore.
    You had better pay your guild dues before you forget. You are 113 months behind.

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