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Thread: UAC Gloves - Damage or Crit Weighting

  1. #1

    Default UAC Gloves - Damage or Crit Weighting

    So, I was wondering if anyone has done any testing to determine which is the best type of weighting to apply to UAC gloves. I would suspect that Crit is still most popular and valuable on Boots due to kick having a particularly high DF, and being exceedingly nasty for critical hits already. However, gloves are another matter.

    Someone informed me that UAC attacks have significant diminishing returns on crit weighting because the system enforces specific critical tiers. If you say had +10 damage weighting on your gloves instead of +10 critical weighting, then your jabs will actually deal noticeable damage instead of insignificant damage as would grapple attacks (which are usually on the lower damage end).

    I currently have SWCW gloves, and kept them there they can be blessed, but now I might start putting more weighting on them as I no longer require blessable equipment. I was considering making them SWCW and HDW. Pricey, but worth it?

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    Profession matters. A monk for example will almost always be at excellent tier, which means you have a good chance of your next aimed hit being a death crit anyway if you're aiming correctly. Just a little bit of crit weighting can push you over onto the "just about always death crit" range. 10 points is probably excessive.

    A bard however will probably top out at decent or good position and mostly rely on quantity over quality. In that case I'd say damage is better. It'd take a significantly larger amount of crit in order to reliably be death critting without the excellent positioning boost.

    A rogue is getting the good tier pushup from hiding, so crit is nice there to ensure you hit the right tier to death crit. You don't have the super low RT that a bard has to fall back on.
    Last edited by Stumplicker; 04-15-2019 at 10:39 AM.

  3. #3

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    I would have thought that monks and rogues would benefit even less from crit weighting considering the mastery (punch/grapple) and rogues ambushing from hiding? These gloves would be primarily used by a warmage and bard, so hasted attack style. I usually like to make items that are generally useful for resale, so hopefully adding damage weighting would not reduce their usability. If leaving them blessable would make them more desirable and marketable, then I'd prefer that (they are KO flaring, SWCW with T5 ensorcell, so going to be pricey to add weighting).
    Last edited by Maerit; 04-15-2019 at 10:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maerit View Post
    I would have thought that monks and rogues would benefit even less from crit weighting considering the mastery (punch/grapple) and rogues ambushing from hiding? These gloves would be primarily used by a warmage and bard, so hasted attack style. I usually like to make items that are generally useful for resale, so hopefully adding damage weighting would not reduce their usability. If leaving them blessable would make them more desirable and marketable, then I'd prefer that (they are KO flaring, SWCW with T5 ensorcell, so going to be pricey to add weighting).
    Rogues and monks barely need it. I did some testing a while back. With an open ambush at excellent tier, I never hit lower than I believe a rank 7 critical. There's a bit of randomization to it, but if you're punching the head I believe rank 9 is a death crit. It doesn't take much crit weighting to push that baseline excellent tier into just about always death critting.

    Rogues are similar. They're only ambushing from good position as a baseline so starting at a lower minimum crit level. They get a push up I believe from the ambush though.

    If you're a bard swinging quantity over quality, I would say you're better off with either damage weighting, or just ALL the crit weighting, to push yourself into death crit range from decent/good open position. If however you often find yourself at excellent position on things with about 3-4 hits left to go before they die, crit will benefit you.

    As for resale, you're right that there's some value in keeping it blessable. I can say that as a monk I really didn't care about the bless after a while. I didn't even switch out to blessable hand/footwraps for undead or Reim because the power is overkill. So selling to a monk is meh. Can't comment on rogue, bard, or warrior, but you'd think there'd be situations where they'd still want them available.

  5. #5

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    I would say flares are better but between those two I would say crit. Here is why, and i dont think its mentioned in the other replies.

    A crit can be the difference between a stun or knockdown, or not, even if it doesn't get you a "crit kill." That in turn will give you an MM bonus on your next attack, which will yield you extra damage or may be the difference between a crit kill on the next attack.

    Not to mention that criticals also give bonus damage even if you don't get a crit kill. With all that added up, I wouldnt be surprised if the crit weighting gives you as much extra blood damage as the damage weighting, in addition to the chance to crit kill.

    Having said all that, I think flares are powerful on UAC because they get you stuns and knockdowns, which give you MM bonuses. Not to mention the occasionaly crit kill from a flare.
    Last edited by gilchristr; 04-15-2019 at 11:17 PM.
    The enhancive king of chicago

  6. #6

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    "they are KO flaring, SWCW with T5 ensorcell"

    OMG, if you dont care about blessability, put flares on them. The KO will not block adding flares (I cant recall whether the SWCW will block adding flares at this point).
    The enhancive king of chicago

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilchristr View Post
    "they are KO flaring, SWCW with T5 ensorcell"

    OMG, if you dont care about blessability, put flares on them. The KO will not block adding flares (I cant recall whether the SWCW will block adding flares at this point).
    I asked a question of similarity some time ago about flares on an item and adding weighting. These were the answers I received:

    "Only temporary flares like eblade are reduced with WPS and I believe they are reduced completely once you get to heavy crit weighting. Permanent flares are not affected."

    "Guiding light flares are also affected by a reduction in flare strength (or is it frequency?), and stop completely when a specific level of weighting is reached. This includes the permanent Guiding Light flares of a paladin-bonded weapon."

    Though, these are player's answers to my question, I never got a NIR answer to confirm or deny the player's responses.
    Last edited by drumpel; 04-16-2019 at 09:31 AM.

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    Gilchrist makes a valid point about flares and knockdowns, but between UAC's tendency to put things on their butt already, knockout flares, and a 1 second RT, if it's not on the ground by the third hit, you're doin' it wrong anyway. That said, even knockdowns aside, if you don't worry about the blessing, flares are as good a choice as damage weighting in that they're much more cost effective to add, contribute extra damage, and add the possibility of their own death crits.

  9. #9

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    I haven't put flares on them yet in order to keep them enchantable, and possibly leave room for permabless. Same with the boots, which are now 7x VHCW T5 ensorcelled with bubble flares. I'll get them both to 8x before adding flares since the flare types I'd be interested in block enchanting.

    Ideally they would be permablessed in order to be able to hit everything in the game. My goal would be something like 8x+, permablessed, SWCW, HDW, T5 ensorcelled, KO Flaring gloves w/ 8x permablessed, VHCW, T5 ensorcelled, Bubble Flaring boots. Then I'd be able to swap them around between alts, and never risk losing them to the current item loss mechanics.

    Oh, and I added 13 services of damage weighting at the silver WPS and it cost nearly 5mil for just 13 services (1.3 points). It was barely cheaper to added services for crit weighting (like 10% less expensive).
    Last edited by Maerit; 04-16-2019 at 10:29 AM.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maerit View Post
    I haven't put flares on them yet in order to keep them enchantable, and possibly leave room for permabless.
    That's brings up another valid point. They're already way overkill for any need you may have for them. They don't really need crit weighting. They don't really need damage. They don't really need flares. It may be the best option to just leave it open ended and wait for a raffle win to put something on them. Extraplanar bane would be my choice, though I don't know if that takes up the same slot as the knockout flares. That aside though, there are plenty of specialty things you could leave it open ended for. You really don't need anything extra to be viable on those as they are.

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