Lores

[Kupak]

What is the proper lore training for sorcs? I understand you want 171 nerco for rot and 31 demonology, but what are the correct distributions for the others? Air, spirit, mental...

[Maerit]

Honestly don't feel like spending that many TPs on 171 necro for rotflares is worth it. Unless you're "plinking" targets to death, you can kill most things without the benefit of a flare in 1-2 (maybe 3) casts and the rot flares aren't going to finish a target much faster. In the end, you're sacrificing a significant portion of utility and SmR defense for some minor flare damage.

With regards to the others, I would put 12-50 points in each element to bolster 719 (12 gives +1 crit rank, 50 gives +2 crit ranks) or 12 in 3 of the elements, and then all the rest into Earth or Water lore. You're fairly safe with 50 in each though.

Spiritual Lore - Summoning is where you want to focus for spirit lores. 20 ranks for web bolt (not that you'll use it much), but the 80 ranks for summoning 125 indoors is particularly handy if you're going to be blowing up boxes with 125 at tables (or a house or something). Plus it helps with the DF of 111 for those times when you feel like AoE bolting rooms of trolls. After 80 ranks, get blessing lore. It helps with everything utility wise. I see no reason for a sorcerer to bother with relgion lore unless you have some kind of SK MjS, Cleric or Paladin spell to bolster.

The best use would probably be Mental Lore - Transformation. This makes 1202 and 1214 more powerful, which are actually handy spells for a sorcerer. Since it's a minor spell circle, you should technically get the full lore benefit from 101 ranks of the lore, so you could wear robes, cast 1202 from a scroll, and have brig armor protection (I think) and then with 1214 from a scroll also have close to 50% chance to disarm something if it managed to hit your arms with a weapon while being able to parry bare-handed.

[Vishnell]

You'll want at least 1x to get the best out of 711.

180 ranks on Necro for the 3 total acuity flares with ensorcell.

I've never had more than 20 Demonology ranks, and I've never had an issue.

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[Maerit]

I've never had more than 20 Demonology ranks, and I've never had an issue.

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It's not about having an issue, but rather you lose a lot of utility that is very helpful.

1. No "gold ring" 740.
2. You can't use crystaline chalk to travel across long distances (i.e. Landing to Icemule - Landing to Carts in Zul - etc)
3. You can only phase 18 lbs, which is basically nothing of any use
4. You lose an undetermined amount of SmR defense from 704 self-cast
5. Your 712 activation is weak and unreliable
6. Your 713 is very weak if you plan on having any kind of AoE damage attack spells

Optimizing isn't the same as having an issue. Spending 80 ranks in necro lore generates nowhere near as much utility as getting 102 ranks in demon lore. You will activate rot flares every single cast, which is going to save you probably 2-3 casts of spells per hunt, and you can keep ensorcell activated for 1 more cast which is often wasted if you can't find a target before the temporary spell activation wears off.

In the end, most of my targets die to either 1x 719, 1x 717, or 2-3 casts of 705/711. Damage flares are mostly wasted as they rarely reduce the number of casts it takes to kill the target. Acuity and Ensorcell are great flares because they improve the chances that my target dies almost immediately. Not to mention, Rot Flares only work on living targets, so they're entirely useless against the undead you find so regularly in capped grounds.

Now, when you talk about Phase utility, this is actually combat utility. If you want to keep the chests you find, you phase them, you never get encumbered, and probably 80% of the boxes you find are under 34lbs, so they phase pretty easily. Loot a chest, phase it, put it away. Easy peasy. Also, 725 is handy combat utility for areas with a lot of silvers. You can have your demon carry a lot of silvers for you, and that's another way to mitigate encumbrance.

All in all - it's just a recommendation. Optimally, 102 demon / 100 necro seems to provide the most balanced mechanical advantage with the least amount of sacrifice - at least from my perspective.

[Kupak]

It's not about having an issue, but rather you lose a lot of utility that is very helpful.

1. No "gold ring" 740.
2. You can't use crystaline chalk to travel across long distances (i.e. Landing to Icemule - Landing to Carts in Zul - etc)
3. You can only phase 18 lbs, which is basically nothing of any use
4. You lose an undetermined amount of SmR defense from 704 self-cast
5. Your 712 activation is weak and unreliable
6. Your 713 is very weak if you plan on having any kind of AoE damage attack spells

Optimizing isn't the same as having an issue. Spending 80 ranks in necro lore generates nowhere near as much utility as getting 102 ranks in demon lore. You will activate rot flares every single cast, which is going to save you probably 2-3 casts of spells per hunt, and you can keep ensorcell activated for 1 more cast which is often wasted if you can't find a target before the temporary spell activation wears off.

In the end, most of my targets die to either 1x 719, 1x 717, or 2-3 casts of 705/711. Damage flares are mostly wasted as they rarely reduce the number of casts it takes to kill the target. Acuity and Ensorcell are great flares because they improve the chances that my target dies almost immediately. Not to mention, Rot Flares only work on living targets, so they're entirely useless against the undead you find so regularly in capped grounds.

Now, when you talk about Phase utility, this is actually combat utility. If you want to keep the chests you find, you phase them, you never get encumbered, and probably 80% of the boxes you find are under 34lbs, so they phase pretty easily. Loot a chest, phase it, put it away. Easy peasy. Also, 725 is handy combat utility for areas with a lot of silvers. You can have your demon carry a lot of silvers for you, and that's another way to mitigate encumbrance.

All in all - it's just a recommendation. Optimally, 102 demon / 100 necro seems to provide the most balanced mechanical advantage with the least amount of sacrifice - at least from my perspective.

What about losses to passives like 716? and 709 damage? Worth losing them for phase?

[Vishnell]

Those flares from 716 have helped me on many occasions.

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[Maerit]

The difference is incredibly minimal. 8% extra chance (49% vs 41%) for 716 to activate is absolutely not worth the loss to phase and SmR defense. The 709 grapple flares do like 10 damage... It doesn't improve the chances of knocking targets over, and only works on arms after the initial cast.

Mechanically, demon lore still wins, and utility wise it's still leaps and bounds better.

Still, everyone has their own thing. Some folks really want that rot flare activation with every cast even if its doing very little to improve their TTK.

[Vishnell]

There's no math that shows how significant or minimal the Demonology ranks affect SmR, so you can't compare to the 41% vs. 49% for the 716 activation and say it's better or not. I'll go with the known vs. a guess.

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[Dantx]

There's no math that shows how significant or minimal the Demonology ranks affect SmR, so you can't compare to the 41% vs. 49% for the 716 activation and say it's better or not. I'll go with the known vs. a guess.

To this point, I'm not even sure it does improve SMRv2, and if it does, it's extremely minimal.

Anyone who has access to an SMRv2 profession (like a wizard or paladin) and a Sorc, please test this on the TEST server please.

I do agree with Maerit on lore split. If you're a giantman, or roll with simu encumbrance potions all the time, I could see you giving up phasing boxes.

Rot flaring every cast is really not necessary.


EDIT: Looks like 704 was tested and adds +1 bonus per 25 ranks of demon lore. Just as I mentioned above, pretty meaningless.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthrea...research/page3

[Xred]

I plan to have about 100 ranks in each lore, and currently have 90 in necro, and 10 in demon. (At 10m exp). I wish I had more demon, but need to max CS and get more CM first.
Necro helps with pain, necromancy (485 AS champions with claids, y’all) and 716 You have to pain griffens to stop their maneuver.
Demon, I’m really excited about having a more powerful 713 and 712. And am Uber exited about using common chalk to teleport through realms. If it wasn’t for the 24 point cost i’d get it right now, and do bandits all over the place. Now that i’m thinking about it, it sounds rather epic, would be great for RP too.