2020 Democrat primary debates

[Stumplicker]

Can you expand on the "illegal trade" you keep referring too. What is it? Are you talking about loopholes, which aren't illegal, or do you mean something else?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Pipeline

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggl...ms_into_Mexico

I'm also talking about lack of accountability for current laws about things like background checks, waiting periods, et cetera. Last gun I bought I purchased it in ten minutes with nothing but a state ID. No background check. No mandatory three day waiting period. From a gun shop.

But yes, the "loopholes" where none of the requirements apply at things like gun shows are also a problem.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I don't think he knows what the world illegal means.

I also think he needs to revisit "few" when he refers to gun laws. Between conceal carry, open carry, ordinances, handgun crime vs. knife, armed robbery vs robbery, etc... all by city/state/local jurisdictions, there are a TON of laws on firearms.

[Stumplicker]

I also think he needs to revisit "few" when he refers to gun laws. Between conceal carry, open carry, ordinances, handgun crime vs. knife, armed robbery vs robbery, etc... all by city/state/local jurisdictions, there are a TON of laws on firearms.

That there are. Not all of them are enforced or held accountable. That's a problem, but I don't necessarily have any problem with the ones which are properly applied.

Edit to add: As an aside, I live in a state where concealed carry doesn't even require a permit, so anyone you run into could potentially have a gun on them, and they often do. Including me. It's also got a very low instance of violent crime in general, so guns themselves are far from the only issue. If a gang related killing happens in Los Angeles, it isn't the gun's fault, and even if it was, with the way supply currently stands, it'd be very difficult to regulate anything in a way that changes that.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

There are laws for the things you listed. My father owned a pawn shop and dealt in firearms predominantly. Believe me when I say there is significant paperwork, processing and accountability. He underwent audits on a near annual basis if I recall correctly. Gun laws aren't the problem. The problems you listed are really with people breaking the law.

There are also laws for gun shows, which vary greatly by state and local governments. It's easier for sure to buy/sell at gun shows, but most those folks buying/selling are federally licensed gun dealers. Again, not the problem people think it is - when was the last "mass shooting" where they traced the firearm back to a gun show? I can wait while you try and find one.

[Gelston]

There are laws for the things you listed. My father owned a pawn shop and dealt in firearms predominantly. Believe me when I say there is significant paperwork, processing and accountability. He underwent audits on a near annual basis if I recall correctly. Gun laws aren't the problem. The problems you listed are really with people breaking the law.

There are also laws for gun shows, which vary greatly by state and local governments. It's easier for sure to buy/sell at gun shows, but most those folks buying/selling are federally licensed gun dealers. Again, not the problem people think it is - when was the last "mass shooting" where they traced the firearm back to a gun show? I can wait while you try and find one.

Bought my last firearm from a pawnshop. Went through the same checks as if I'd bought it new from a regular store.

[Parkbandit]

Can you imagine if people on the whole reacted the same way about car safety, medical research, and suicide prevention as they do about stricter firearm regulations?

"SUICIDE IS A FUNDAMENTAL AMERICAN RIGHT! SUICIDE OUTREACH PROGRAMS AND HOTLINES ARE A SLIPPERY SLOPE TO THEM OUTLAWING IT ALTOGETHER!"

"MANDATORY SEATBELT LAWS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND INFRINGE ON MY RIGHTS! WHAT'S NEXT? MANDATORY STOPPING AT RED LIGHTS? FORCING ME TO USE MY BLINKER?"

Suicides, seatbelts, redlights and turning signals aren't specifically written out as a protected right in the Constitution.

Can you imagine if you could actually present a well thought out argument that wasn't full of stupidity?

Neither can I.

[Stumplicker]

There are laws for the things you listed. My father owned a pawn shop and dealt in firearms predominantly. Believe me when I say there is significant paperwork, processing and accountability. He underwent audits on a near annual basis if I recall correctly. Gun laws aren't the problem. The problems you listed are really with people breaking the law.

There are also laws for gun shows, which vary greatly by state and local governments. It's easier for sure to buy/sell at gun shows, but most those folks buying/selling are federally licensed gun dealers. Again, not the problem people think it is - when was the last "mass shooting" where they traced the firearm back to a gun show? I can wait while you try and find one.

I know there are laws. That's how I knew to expect a mandated three day waiting period for a handgun when I went in to purchase one last. But those laws are selectively applied. I filled out the paperwork, signed on the line and had a gun in ten minutes.

I wouldn't know any statistics on how many mass shooting guns came from gun shows. I don't believe I mentioned anything about mass shootings.

And the key word for your gun show reference is "most". The ones who don't belong to "most" are the loophole sellers. You know it, I know it. It's not a big secret. "I'm not a dealer. These are my personal collection and I'm just selling them secondhand", et cetera.

Again, stricter gun control laws, if they were to be applied, are something that would only help if several other things were changed first and then given a whole heap of time to take effect, and I don't necessarily believe they address the root of any issue.

What I do believe is that federal standards should be adopted and applied as a baseline, consistently, and accountably, across all the states in a way that's more or less consistent with the majority of state laws. There's such a disaparity between states that could care less and states that care too much that whatever law you do see fit to put on the books does absolutely no good at all. And that's a problem. The laws that we do have should be able to be enforced, consistently, across the board.

[Parkbandit]

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

What I do believe is that federal standards should be adopted and applied as a baseline, consistently, and accountably, across all the states in a way that's more or less consistent with the majority of state laws. There's such a disaparity between states that could care less and states that care too much that whatever law you do see fit to put on the books does absolutely no good at all. And that's a problem. The laws that we do have should be able to be enforced, consistently, across the board.

Outside your anecdotal example, what makes you think federal laws aren't being enforced?

[Stumplicker]

Outside your anecdotal example, what makes you think federal laws aren't being enforced?

The fact that every argument for or against stricter gun control has to consider "except for in cases of loopholes".

It's the sovereign citizen movement as applied to guns. Gun laws apply except in cases when you say the magic combination of words that make them not apply. I don't have a problem with most of our current gun control laws. I have a problem with the fact that they're nearly impossible to enforce because they vary so wildly from state to state and town to town, and the fact that there are so very many loopholes that make them not apply.