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Thread: Sonic Flares w/ UAC

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donquix View Post
    If you keep reading people tried to get him to clarify that statement and he never did, and it is directly at odds with what Finros (who actually made that system) said. It's pretty trivial to check since the difference is so dramatic.

    a hundred or so swings with just flaring gloves or a flaring handheld and the chance is 20+% depending on how you calculate it. I was doing: flares / (jab attempts - killshots not caused by a flare) and depending on when i check it's ~23% (riltus has normal flares as 20%, and i take his word as gospel generally)

    use both and it's immediately down to 10-12%, put one away and immediately back up. At first I was checking with non-flaring gloves + a held, realized my gloves were blessed (but i was hunting living) and dispelled the bless just to be sure, didn't make a difference. flare chance is unchanged (made sure to put the weapon away, get it back out just in case it's a weird GET thing, did a remove/stow/get/wear of the gloves after the bless removal also to be sure)

    I got lazy at the end was doing pretty brief runs (until i got like 6 or 7 flares), but it's like clockwork to the higher chance and back down as you change the gear out.

    a little annoying as the only scripted items i have to check are either already weird on flare chance (i.e. parasite) or have regular + scripted flares, and it should be checked with only the scripted to minimize the variables. Plus who knows if all scripts work the same with determining how often they should, i.e. do some miss the stacked gear hook entirely? then paladin flares and bard flares might be entirely different.
    The formula is essentially 1/n=modifier for flare rate, where n= # pieces of equipment either worn or held. It doesn't matter if the equipment is plain, its still counted. So gloves and a handheld would be a .5 modifier to the standard flare rate of all pieces of equipment used in that attack.

    That's direct from Finros after monks release.

    As Donquix said, its possible that some systems interact with it oddly but that's for sure the design when it comes to standard flares including holy water bless flares.

    Bottom line, if you use a piece of UAC equipment and want flares then make sure every one of them has flares so you'll get a normalized rate. Adding script flares and other types will also help as its not calculated per number of flares, but per # of equipment. So a piece of equipment with a script flare and paladin flares will still flare a lot ... relatively speaking in the context of the normalized rate.
    Last edited by Aluvius; 01-07-2019 at 09:03 PM.

  2. #12

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    It's also completely shit that it works this way and fucks over warriors specifically who would benefit from held weapons to activate parry. You could still do it, in theory, but you'd need 3x the flares, 3x the enchants, 3x the blesses, and 3x the ensorcells.
    Last edited by SpiffyJr; 01-08-2019 at 07:29 PM.
    It must be hard to type with ghostcrawlers penis lodged in your ass. - g++

  3. #13

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    Riltus breaks it down a bit better in this thread:

    http://forum.gsplayers.com/archive/i...p/t-88130.html


    Quoting his post:
    __________________________________________________ __


    Well, use some with flares then if you're going to get the decreased flare chance you might as well get the flares from them. Although I don't think its supposed to work like this without flares, so maybe you can get someone to stealth fix them heh.

    UCS brawling weapons, when used with UCS attack commands, aren't classified as weapons. They are handheld pieces of equipment that may be enhanced with special properties (flares, weighting etc.). But the system (UNARMED COMBAT), as designed by Finros, discourages the use of weapons by balancing any bonuses added to these items with offsetting penalties. For example, e-bladed gloves will have a randomized flare rate of 20%. If you were to add two e-bladed flaring weapons, the overall flare rate remains at 20%. Each weapon flares randomly an average of 1 per 15 attacks.

    The flare rate (R) for UCS attacks is (R1 + R2 + R3)/N where R1/R2/R3 represent the rates for each item and (N) is the number of pieces of equipment used. With 20% flaring handwraps and 2 non-flaring razorpaws the random flare rate is (20 + 0 + 0)/3 = 6.66%. From the first example the rate is (20 + 20 + 20)/3 = 20%

    Per Finros:


    For clarity, here are the full rules for unarmed equipment. These rules only consider equipment that is actually used in the attack -- if a held weapon isn't a part of the unarmed attack, it isn't considered in these rules.

    AS/UAF: - Gloves and boots confer their full UAF bonus in all circumstances. - A single held piece of equipment contributes half of its AS bonus to UAF. - Two held pieces of equipment contribute half of the average of their AS bonus, to UAF.

    Weighting: - Weighted gloves confer their full bonus when used alone. - Weighted gloves confer half their bonus when used with one or two held weapons. - A single weighted weapon confers half its bonus regardless of glove usage. - A single weighted weapon used in conjunction with a second weapon of any sort confers one quarter of its bonus regardless of glove usage (and this applies to each weapon individually -- so two weighted weapons will provide a quarter of their bonus each).

    Flares and other scripted special abilities: - Each piece of equipment has a 1-in-N chance of activating on any given attack, where N is the number of pieces of equipment used in the attack. Some aspects (such as charge depletion of a blessed weapon) happen with every attack.


    He never stated that only flaring items would be included in N.

    Also, there is a conservation of charges with e-bladed items.

    Example:

    E-bladed handwraps: 100 swings
    E-bladed razorpaw (2 ea.): 100 swings per

    Total number of attacks before charge depletion will average 300, since each item will consume a charge an average of 1 per 3 attacks.

    Mark
    Last edited by Aluvius; 01-08-2019 at 08:07 PM.

  4. #14

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    @Aluvius

    Seems this also means all scripted flares, not just the flare slot will be reduced as well?

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiffyJr View Post
    It's also completely shit that it works this way and fucks over warriors specifically who would benefit from held weapons to activate parry. You could still do it, in theory, but you'd need 3x the flares, 3x the enchants, 3x the blesses, and 3x the ensorcells.
    Or you could be a monk, who specifically gets a spell that adds weaponless parry, with the bonus of a potential free, 0 roundtime disarm everytime it happens!

    https://gswiki.play.net/Brace_(1214)
    Last edited by Stumplicker; 01-08-2019 at 11:05 PM.

  6. #16

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    Well that is all good info I will have to take into consideration. It sounds like you should get all your equipment flared, and equip all three things as a Bard. Sonic will flare a lot less, but you'll still get them while having Sprite + Flares, KO + Flares. Then get a set of blessed gloves / boots for the undead and make the swap. Not fun for mixed hunting grounds. I guess you can just do the Voln style with undead and suffer the UAF + Flares + Weapon benefits, but at least you're not having to do a bunch of equipment swap scripts to fight the undead.
    Last edited by Maerit; 01-09-2019 at 01:04 AM.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by zephyrii View Post
    @Aluvius

    Seems this also means all scripted flares, not just the flare slot will be reduced as well?
    Yeah I think so now that I went back and read the stuff we were figuring out then.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumplicker View Post
    Or you could be a monk, who specifically gets a spell that adds weaponless parry, with the bonus of a potential free, 0 roundtime disarm everytime it happens!

    https://gswiki.play.net/Brace_(1214)
    I have a 52 monk so I'm aware of their spells. As a warrior I'm in MBP (with the CvA) at only -2MM, have warcries, and armor skills. Monks have a lot of great things going for them too but their lack of utility throws me off.

    Also, monks don't have Parry mastery which still blows my mind.
    It must be hard to type with ghostcrawlers penis lodged in your ass. - g++

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiffyJr View Post
    I have a 52 monk so I'm aware of their spells. As a warrior I'm in MBP (with the CvA) at only -2MM, have warcries, and armor skills. Monks have a lot of great things going for them too but their lack of utility throws me off.

    Also, monks don't have Parry mastery which still blows my mind.
    I'd think their 3x evade, evade mastery, and the ability to disarm passively when parrying with their bare hands (1214) would compensate for not having parry mastery. The only thing that's really killing a trained monk are warding spells.

    The missing CMAN that really messes with my head is zero shield abilities for a square. Sure, they don't have to train in shields, but it's a valid option and they should have the small, medium, large focus w/ shielded brawler as an option. That gives them a way to equip some CvA defense (w/ T5 ensorcelled shield and full focus training) by sacrificing some of their dodge potency, training points, and MM.

    But, utility is a thing, and they don't really have it (yet??).
    Last edited by Maerit; 01-11-2019 at 10:39 AM.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maerit View Post
    I'd think their 3x evade, evade mastery, and the ability to disarm passively when parrying with their bare hands (1214) would compensate for not having parry mastery. The only thing that's really killing a trained monk are warding spells.

    The missing CMAN that really messes with my head is zero shield abilities for a square. Sure, they don't have to train in shields, but it's a valid option and they should have the small, medium, large focus w/ shielded brawler as an option. That gives them a way to equip some CvA defense (w/ T5 ensorcelled shield and full focus training) by sacrificing some of their dodge potency, training points, and MM.

    But, utility is a thing, and they don't really have it (yet??).
    yeah the lack of shield mans of any kind for a square is pretty hilarious. It would be nice even if not picking up brawler, etc. to actively UAC with just to do what a lot of TWC/THW/Pole warriors do and still pick up like 40 ranks of shield so you can pick up ranks in bash, etc. for defensive purposes.

    I get the lack of parry mastery in lieu of evasion mastery, the only thing i think it sucks for really though is you can't pick it up to fortify mongoose (which i think is pretty meh for UAC but is like the only stance option for a mutant-ish weapon build outside the generic defensive stances like slippery mind)

    Estild did at least agree that the utility is sorely lacking for monks and paldins. I look forward to water lore seed 10 related utility implemented sometime in 2050
    Mithrilschlong, 2015-03-10 to slightly later on 2015-03-10. You will not be forgotten!

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