UAC on Paladin - Questions

[Viekn]

I have a few questions regarding this, as normally I like UAC but want to clarify it's effectiveness with Paladins...

1. I feel like one of the main draws of a paladin is to get the guiding light flares from bonding, which you can't do with gloves/boots. Does wielding a brawling weapon detract much from the UAC effectiveness for a paladin?

2. I know UAC doesn't use the AS/DS system, so do the AS boosting spells of Paladins increase the unarmed attack factor by the same ratio?

[kutter]

My paladin is not UAC but my wizard is so here is my .02:

!. Yes, it detracts from the effectiveness of all brawlers
2. It should, all other spells which increase AS increase UAF but not by the same amount so I would think Paladin spells would be the same way.

[Maerit]

I would say that wielding a weapon for both Paladins and Bards have far greater advantages with regards to UAC than disadvantages. Use the right weapon, and take full advantage of 1605 + 1625, and the DF bonus you get from the weapon will outweigh the slight loss in MM. If you use a cestus, for example, you will only lose 5 MM, but you will gain a very significant amount of DF from the weapon + 1605 alongside plasma flares. Additionally (and this may be a bug), but holding a UAC weapon + wearing gloves tends to also give you a small boost to UAF for some reason.

Bards are also going to benefit from using a sonic weapon with the incredibly strong double air flares and the very fast RTs.

All effects which bolster physical attack strength are meant to also bolster UAF. If you find anything that does not do this, it should be reported as a bug.

I'd even go so far as to suggest that Punch be your Tier 3 attack over Kick. While Kick has very strong DF on it's own, you can't benefit from the weapon flares and the other paladin specific benefits from wielding a weapon, therefore Punch is often a better Tier 3 attack once you've tiered up (if you're wielding a UAC weapon).

That being said, Paladins are slow with UAC compared to squares and hasted fighters. You will want to take advantage of Multi-Opponent combat if you're going to be a UAC paladin (frankly UAC without MoC is much slower unless you have 1s RTs).

[Viekn]

Thanks Maerit and Kutter. A question and a comment based on your input Maerit...

1. Having never used a weapon with UAC and never done a Paladin with UAC, can I have flaring gloves and a bonded weapon that I also get guiding light flares with that will all trigger?

2. The slower aspect of UAC with being a Paladin is no issue because the reduced RT's from UAC alone are boss, so I'm good with that as is. Does holding a brawling weapon though add to the normal glove/boot RT?

[khorpulent]

The UAF boost from holding a brawling weapon is because held UAC-compatible weapons add half the enchant to your UAF. So if you have a 4x cestus, you'll get +10 to your UAF in addition to the bonus from your gloves. While it's helpful, it still doesn't really compensate for the MM penalty. You'll also get flares/weighting from both the held weapon and the gloves, but the flare rate or weighting value will be halved for each. I'm not really how sure how that works out with paladin stuff.

There are a few reasons paladins are probably slower with UAC:
1. Paladins don't have access to the Kick/Punch Mastery CMs, which means at later levels they have 15 less MM than monks/rogues and 15% less chance to tier up.
2. Paladins don't have access to Krynch or Flurry martial stances, which makes tiering up much slower compared with monks.
3. Paladins typically don't hide/ambush, so they don't get the auto tier-up when ambushing from hiding like rogues do.
4. Paladins tend to wear heavier armor and incur an MM penalty as a result.
5. If you want to use a shield to benefit from your fancy paladin tricks, you further decrease your MM.

[Maerit]

Actually for a paladin, it wouldn't be a terrible thing to have flaring gloves (though the flare rate on the gloves will be much lower) because of the way guiding light flares work. Each time the weapon fails to flare, the base percent chance it will flare increases each successful hit until a flare occurs. So, paladin flare mechanics kind of compensate for the "halved" flare rate when wielding a flaring weapon + flaring gloves. Though, if you want to focus on ensuring the weapon will flare, you should make sure your gloves are "basic".

I mentioned the slower UAC thing due to the fact that, while attacks are lower RT, they aren't going to kill outright compared to normal weapons. Most paladins with weapons can kill things pretty quickly (once they can aim them from the open) with a disabling attack + a killing attack. It's going to take multiple jabs and setup attacks to get to excellent before a target dies, which is why MoC is so crucial for kill speed as a brawling paladin. Otherwise you're killing via attrition.

[kutter]

Ok, again, just my .02 but anything that hinders tier up is bad, the only exception that being if you can get your attacks off in 1 sec like a wizard or bard. My wizard is 52 and he is very efficient as a UAC fighter with about 65-70% of his Arena runs being perfect. I had a cleric that was UAC until 30, and he was ok with an opener like boneshatter and I played with my 72 train rogue as one for a bit, which from hiding worked pretty damn well but he could aim and hit every time from hiding so it's not really analogous to a paladin.

I love UAC, I think that with the correct build it is perhaps the most effective hunting style in the game, to be fair I have never tried ranged though, that being said, it only works on what it works on. I have a paladin, he to is 52, and paladins seem to excel at one of two things, be a tank, or a wrecking ball. That is not to say that you cannot make it work, because I am certain you can, it will just be harder, but hell, this is coming from a guy with a gnome polearm sorcerer, so go for it and let us know.

I would say get some 4X gloves, some plain gloves and a 4X UAC weapon, I forget which one I used when I was playing around with them, and see what happens, you have until 20 trains to sort it out anyhow.